electric floor heat question

[bigbrad123]

Moved into a new house last December. It has floor heat in the entire basement with an electric boiler. Found out the cost to keep the temp around 70 certainly isn't cheap, and it wasn't even that cold last winter! I'd love to get a nice, efficient gas boiler, but a good one isn't cheap. Yeah, it might pay for itself in 5 years, but I can't front that type of money right now unless I buy a cheap brand, put it on the Menards card, and make payments. Anyone else have any experience using off-peak with electric floor heat? I'd have to pay to have the off peak meter installed too which sucks. Is it worth it? Seems like I can't win. Pay for a new gas boiler, pay for an off peak installation not knowing how much I'll save, or pay the regular rate each month and do none of the above. Any experience out there?

 

[deleted member]

Off peak electric and NG boiler would be the cheapest in the long run. But, big $ up front and since you currently have neither, well...

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This might be one of those things that may justify a visit to the bank.

 

[eyexer]

Off peak is the way to go. You can install that meter yourself, it isn't hard. Electric company will give you the directions to install it. However, it will go outsider and you need to be able to get the wire from your panel to the outside of the house. My REC supplied me with the wire and the meter box free of charge. Then you have to wire in the transducers with they will provide instructions for also.

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you can also buy NG boilers on ebay for about half price. New units.

 

[bigbrad123]

Off peak is the way to go. You can install that meter yourself, it isn't hard. Electric company will give you the directions to install it. However, it will go outsider and you need to be able to get the wire from your panel to the outside of the house. My REC supplied me with the wire and the meter box free of charge. Then you have to wire in the transducers with they will provide instructions for also.

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you can also buy NG boilers on ebay for about half price. New units.

Not sure about self installation of the off peak meter. I get a bit nervous wiring too much stuff myself. I can do the basics (and I mean basics), but anything involving the panel I tend to stay away from. I've looked on Ebay for NG boilers. Yes, cheaper, but sometimes can't always find a "good" brand. With no experience with them, I'd hate to buy a cheap one thinking I am getting a good deal and then it takes a crap within no time. That's the reason I've been "encouraged" to stay away from the Menards brands.

Yes a trip to the bank may be in order, but I just made a trip there for a boat :;:cheers

 

[pluckem]

Before you spend the money you might also make sure the installation was correct and you have some insulation in the right places to make the entire system efficient. Make sure what you have in place with the current water lines, foundation, floor, and insulation is worth spending the money on.

 

[guywhofishes]

you are pretty lucky - hot water heating is the best IMO.

Being able to "tap into" the heating system by just adding a NG boiler is a blessing (as opposed to forced air yadda).

NG is cheap, no shortages in view, and reliable. Keep the electric boiler in place for if/when the NG takes a dump. And eventually integrate it into the off peak system as has been mentioned.

All off peak involves is the energy company controlling remotely when either the NG or electric boiler will run. You just relax and enjoy heat. For now install the NG "in line" with the electric and worry about off peak system later.

In fact - is off peak really cheaper than NG per BTU nowadays? I can't recall but I may have switched mine to NG only - and the energy company only decides when my big water heater can run or not. (it's big so I don't run out during their couple hour off times)

 

[remm]

Guy beat me to it, I'd bet NG would be cheaper than off-peak anyway. Save up some money and get the NG boiler, just as he said, it can be hooked up to automatically switch back and forth from off NG or off peak elec, my guess is if you switch to NG, you won't even mess with the off peak.

How many sqft of floor are you heating? I'd think if the basement walls were well insulated, once you got the pad heated up, it would stay pretty warm and be pretty cheap to keep at a set temp. Last winter was a pretty warm one though so who knows if we get one of them January's that barely tickle single digits below for the month.

 

[bigbrad123]

Before you spend the money you might also make sure the installation was correct and you have some insulation in the right places to make the entire system efficient. Make sure what you have in place with the current water lines, foundation, floor, and insulation is worth spending the money on.

Suggestions what to look for? I do need to check out insulation in the walls. At times, it seemed like our bedroom walls on the northwest side was kind of cold, but I figured that may be kind of typical when the wind blows. It's a bi-level. What do I need to check out in the floor? It's a completely finished basement. I've started to wonder if the whole unit isn't operating properly. It works, but I'm not sure how much it is cycling on and off. I have an old fashioned circular thermostat down there I turn up to about 67 and it seems like it stays about 70 degrees down there.

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Guy beat me to it, I'd bet NG would be cheaper than off-peak anyway. Save up some money and get the NG boiler, just as he said, it can be hooked up to automatically switch back and forth from off NG or off peak elec, my guess is if you switch to NG, you won't even mess with the off peak.

How many sqft of floor are you heating? I'd think if the basement walls were well insulated, once you got the pad heated up, it would stay pretty warm and be pretty cheap to keep at a set temp. Last winter was a pretty warm one though so who knows if we get one of them January's that barely tickle single digits below for the month.[/QUOTE

Bi-level house built in 2003. About 1200 sq feet in basement. I do have a gas furnace with vents downstairs, but doesn't seem like it keeps it warm enough without the floor heat. Kids sleep in the basement so need it somewhat warm down there. Starting to wonder if it may not be hooked up properly. For example, during January of last year, my electric bill was $400 (not including natural gas furnace). I ran electric garage heat a little, but not that much. Was very surprised at the bill, but maybe that's normal?? I thought it was high. Turned the thermostat down to about 63 (which kept it about 67 downstairs) and my bill went down at least $100.

 

[remm]

I'm not surprised by that bill, electricity has gotten expensive. You should be able to check on utility bill history to see how you compared to the past.
Stupid vents on the ceilings in basements, warm air never even gets half way down the walls before it makes it's way upstairs. If your floor heat system was installed right, you are still way ahead of the game in the long run. Could even just try a fan in the stairway or if there's room for a ceiling fan somewhere that can help keep some of that warm air in the basement longer, that could maybe be a temporary get-by until you could afford a gas boiler.

 

[Bed Wetter]

As long as we're on the subject (not to hijack a thread), does anybody have experience with a NG tankless water heater? I've heard they do t work so well in ND because the water coming into the house is too cold. Broke ground on the house today so need to sort out this water heater thing ASAP.

 

[Enslow]

Buy a water heater that holds water and heats up.

 

[guywhofishes]

A big one. Lifetime warranty tank type. Never ever ever run out of hot water.

 

[Bed Wetter]

A big one. Lifetime warranty tank type. Never ever ever run out of hot water.

Figured this is the other way we'd go. The one thing that appeals to me about a big water tank is that it gives you a big reservoir of water in your house. If something goes awry and you lose water for awhile, you still have a supply for drinking/cooking.

 

[eyexer]

Guy beat me to it, I'd bet NG would be cheaper than off-peak anyway. Save up some money and get the NG boiler, just as he said, it can be hooked up to automatically switch back and forth from off NG or off peak elec, my guess is if you switch to NG, you won't even mess with the off peak.

How many sqft of floor are you heating? I'd think if the basement walls were well insulated, once you got the pad heated up, it would stay pretty warm and be pretty cheap to keep at a set temp. Last winter was a pretty warm one though so who knows if we get one of them January's that barely tickle single digits below for the month.

I don't know what NG costs but right now it probably is cheaper. My REC told me their off peak rates equal to about .68 cent propane. Take that for what it's worth.

 

[Hookin8easy]

Pretty sure even lp is cheaper than electric right now, if you have access to NG burn it

 

[Traxion]

I would guess your REC may even do install for you. Do that for now, set your account to balanced billing to spread the winter pain out, and save up for a NG boiler. And it wouldn't hurt to have someone take a look over the system to make sure everything is working OK.

 

[REY_off]

I currently run in floor heat in my 1150 sq ft garage. I got it up and running in Jan this year.

1/2 pex, 4 loops, 1 zone, Modulating/Condensing NG fired tankless water heater. 2" XPS foam insulation on the foundation walls and under the entire slab.

Couldn't make out the difference in the MDU bill (NG only) compared to the winter before.

http://www.radiantec.com helped me with the design and answered any of my questions along the way. I bought most of my products through them. They were great to work with for only dealing with them over the internet. Very knowledgeable. Depending on the plumber you go with, some have experience with radiant floor heat and others have none. Most will act like they know what they are doing, but I suspect many have limited experience.

www.garagejournal.com also has an endless amount of information on the subject. I found alot of answers to my questions during the design stages from this website.

 

[Hookin8easy]

Not too mention the extreme amount of maintenance involved with electric boilers and elements compared to a tank and burner, high efficiency condensing boilers are expensive, look into a cast iron with mixing valve and you'll save thousands, set it and forget it, they just run, high efficiency=high maintenance and high repair costs

 

[bigbrad123]

I currently run in floor heat in my 1150 sq ft garage. I got it up and running in Jan this year.

1/2 pex, 4 loops, 1 zone, Modulating/Condensing NG fired tankless water heater. 2" XPS foam insulation on the foundation walls and under the entire slab.

Couldn't make out the difference in the MDU bill (NG only) compared to the winter before.

http://www.radiantec.com helped me with the design and answered any of my questions along the way. I bought most of my products through them. They were great to work with for only dealing with them over the internet. Very knowledgeable. Depending on the plumber you go with, some have experience with radiant floor heat and others have none. Most will act like they know what they are doing, but I suspect many have limited experience.

www.garagejournal.com also has an endless amount of information on the subject. I found alot of answers to my questions during the design stages from this website.

So I'm starting to question how I have my thermostat set up. Do most systems have a temp gauge installed in the floor that detects the temp of the floor which determines when the system cycles on and off? I only have a wall thermometer (the old fashioned circle one) which I assume detects the air temp and not floor temp. Would that make a difference?

 

[remm]

My floor heat in the garage is controlled by a regular digital wall thermostat.

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As long as we're on the subject (not to hijack a thread), does anybody have experience with a NG tankless water heater? I've heard they do t work so well in ND because the water coming into the house is too cold. Broke ground on the house today so need to sort out this water heater thing ASAP.

My parents had their NG tank water heater go out a little over a year ago, plumber put in a tankless as they said that's the vast majority of what they are putting in now. So far it hasn't been an issue for them, seems to get hot water to the tap faster than the tanked heater but that could be their imagination. I've been considering switching out my 75gal tank heater in my garage for a tankless just to save some space but haven't decided on it yet.