Mandan Data center pushback

[ale]

No but he’s on record touting our state has the weather water and power for more data centers as well as opposing the data center transparency bill. Then the sudden need to put all that water under our state gov’s control. Maybe I’m wrong

 

[Allen]

Let's clear some things up a little here. There always has been and always will be resistance to using the Missouri River water outside of the Missouri River basin, or, one could say states that don't have direct access to the Missouri River.

By law, the Governor is mostly correct in that each state is allowed to control the amount of water used from the Missouri River, but it's generally limited to what is considered the "Natural Flow" of the Missouri River. What this means is that the State of ND can permit the use of an amount of water equal to the natural flow in the river. What this also means is that the State cannot permit water that is being held in storage by the federal government via the Pick-Sloan dams. That water is under the control of the federal government.

Drier states like Colorado, New Mexico, and Arizona (just to pick on a few) have always dreamed of access to more water. For example, Colorado is largely considered at or very near the limits of being able to add any new water permits. Thus, these states are water limited when it comes to population and industrial growth. For example, there have been proposed water transfers from the Great Lakes into the Missouri/Mississippi for eventual use in Arizona and California. All it would take would be for one governor/state to be willing to host such a transfer. However, the river is a national resource and one would be mistaken to think that more populated states and regions of the country don't have more voting power in Congress. Congress tends to tread lightly on these kinds of topics where they would be putting the burden on one state to support another. Think of how long it has taken to dream up and put into effect permanent storage for nuclear waste at Yucca Mountain!

Bottom line, no way the federal government willingly gives the governor the direct ability to call for increased discharge out of Garrison Dam via its stored water to support any industrial use. The lowest Garrison Dam goes for any length of time in discharge is about 10,000 cfs. That is roughly equal to the limitations of Washburn's intake on the river, and maybe Mandan's as well. It's why Bismarck built the infiltration well system it now uses as an intake.

I have never paid much attention to defining ND's share of the natural flow of the Missouri River. Let's just say that I'd have to imagine that's a very sticky legal topic. However, I know that during the 30s and 40s there were lengthy stretches of time where the Missouri at Bismarck fell well below the existing 10,000 cfs requirement for Washburn.

For reference, there's right around 13,500-15,000 cfs going into the Missouri River above Oahe when one adds up the flow in the Missouri and Yellowstone coming out of Montana, the paltry 100 cfs in the Little Missouri, and all the other small tribs flowing into Sak.

Even with all of the water use in ND, we probably only use about 1.5-2.0% of the 16.7 million acre-feet of water that passes through the state via the Missouri River (including all the straws we've put into Sak and have planned going forward like NAWS and the RRVWSP). So, yes...the governor is likely very correct in that we have water the State could permit from the Missouri River to use for industry. As always though, the devil is in the details. I am not a fan of consumptive use of water for cooling data centers, but the State does have the legal ability to permit water from the river for AI or Crypto operations.

 

[wslayer]

Limit their use to wintertime only. They can melt their own snow for cooling.

 

[Browneye]

Larry Fink is on record saying a large portion of the funding for these things is Larry and investment gurus like him are going to be investing your 401k and IRA funds into these things so if for some reason they dont pan out guess whos going to take it in the shorts?

 

[guywhofishes]

https://mydakotan.com/2026/09/2nd-fargo-area-data-center-would-use-double-the-power-of-harwood-site/

Sounds like some interesting conflicts of interest BS going on.

 

[eyexer]

Closed loop huh. Then why do they need 20,000 gallons of water a day. And a closed loop system would require heat exchangers with fans. Like car radiators like he said lol. And I wonder what’s with these companies having the word “power” on their name with these centers. The one in Williston is owned by Atlas Power. Has to be some benefit to them we aren’t aware of. I guess calling it Atlas Bitcoin Mining wouldn’t sit well with the citizens.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Closed loop huh. Then why do they need 20,000 gallons of water a day. And a closed loop system would require heat exchangers with fans. Like car radiators like he said lol. And I wonder what’s with these companies having the word “power” on their name with these centers. The one in Williston is owned by Atlas Power. Has to be some benefit to them we aren’t aware of. I guess calling it Atlas Bitcoin Mining wouldn’t sit well with the citizens.

20k gallons / day really isnt that much, If I left my lawn sprinkler system running for 24 hours it might use that much!

 

[NDSportsman]

A wind farm headed this way too? Great......this energy park sounds nothing like "harmony" to me.

 

[Jiffy]

With winds farms come huge substations. Ellendale is the model

 

[guywhofishes]

we’re gonna be one of America’s energy bitches aren’t we?

 

[eyexer]

20k gallons / day really isnt that much, If I left my lawn sprinkler system running for 24 hours it might use that much!

Exactly. Why would they even need it. That should be a red flag. 20,000 a day tells you it will def need cooling systems which means massive heat exchangers with lots of fans. Which equals lots of noise

 

[ale]

If they don’t need it why is the city of Aberdeen selling over a million gallons to the ellendale center? Maybe they can run completely closed loops. But if it’s cheaper, they won’t. They’re now lobbying to be exempt from sales tax for all the equipment they’re installing. Must be nice. Glad I could help these poor start ups.

 

[jer79]

Sounds like from other sources i found, the aberdeen water is also being used for construction purposes, water trucks possibly and whatever... I believe there is a large mancamp there and maybe ellendale put a cap on their usage? I dont know but, could it be that they gotta get it somewhere else for now because they would exceed a limit.

why would the water come from aberdeen? and not ellendale or on site?

Copilot said:​

There are a few plausible reasons, and the publicly reported facts point more toward water quality and availability than simple proximity.
What has been reported is that Aberdeen sold more than 1 million gallons of treated municipal water to the Applied Digital project, and local Ellendale officials said the water was being used for the campus cooling system commissioning and fill process. Those reports do not explicitly state why Aberdeen was chosen over Ellendale.
The likely reasons are:

1. Treated water quality
   • Large closed-loop cooling systems typically require very clean water to avoid corrosion, mineral scaling, and biological growth.
   • Municipal water systems can often deliver water with known and consistent chemistry.
   • If Aberdeen could provide the required specifications in large volumes, it may have been more attractive than local sources.
2. Small-town system limitations
   • Ellendale is a small community.
   • Drawing hundreds of thousands or millions of gallons quickly from a local municipal system could place stress on local infrastructure, storage, or fire protection reserves.
   • Purchasing from a larger municipal system avoids that issue.
3. Timing during construction
   • The water was reportedly trucked during construction and commissioning.
   • It may have been faster to purchase bulk loads from an available supplier than to build and permit temporary on-site treatment systems.
4. On-site well water may require treatment
   • Groundwater is often available in southeast North Dakota, but cooling-system-grade water may require extensive treatment to remove hardness, iron, manganese, or other dissolved minerals.
   • Depending on the chemistry, buying treated municipal water can be cheaper than treating large volumes of raw groundwater.

An interesting point is that if the Ellendale campus truly operates as the closed-loop, waterless system that Applied Digital and BASX have described, then the million-plus gallons trucked from Aberdeen would represent mostly an initial fill and commissioning expense, not a recurring annual need.
Looking at it from an engineering perspective, I'd be surprised if the reason was simply "Ellendale doesn't have enough water." More likely, the project needed a large volume of known-quality treated water delivered on a specific schedule, and Aberdeen was willing and able to supply it.
What's especially interesting is that if the campus eventually contains roughly 1 million gallons of coolant inventory, the Aberdeen deliveries may actually give us a rough clue about the scale of the cooling system, even though neither Applied Digital nor the permitting documents I've found publicly disclose the final coolant volume.

https://fargoinc.com/applied-digita...nzLhgTYXq72g0WXLXw_aem_ToibxK0nUQ8I82BE0BDEMg​

 

[Lycanthrope]

Exactly. Why would they even need it. That should be a red flag. 20,000 a day tells you it will def need cooling systems which means massive heat exchangers with lots of fans. Which equals lots of noise

if they arent near residential areas, sound shouldnt be a huge issue.

 

[Tymurrey]

if they arent near residential areas, sound shouldnt be a huge issue.

It's the neighboring landowners that pay the price then unfortunately. I know i wouldn't want one near my land that i hunt of if me or the kids ever wanted to build a house on our land that would be next to one of these things. I know not owning the land means nothing a person can do but still sucks for the neighboring landowners.

 

[eyexer]

if they arent near residential areas, sound shouldnt be a huge issue.

Problem is they’re putting them there. The one here that is up and running you can hear from three miles a way on a good percentage of days. And I’m west of it. The people that live a hundred yards away get to listen to a constant 80 decibel sound level. In winter it can get down to 68 on cold days but in summer can get into 90 decibel range.

 

[johnr]

Problem is they’re putting them there. The one here that is up and running you can hear from three miles a way on a good percentage of days. And I’m west of it. The people that live a hundred yards away get to listen to a constant 80 decibel sound level. In winter it can get down to 68 on cold days but in summer can get into 90 decibel range.

Those effn windmills are not silent either