What's new
Forums
Members
Resources
Whopper Club
Politics
Pics
Videos
Fishing Reports
Classifieds
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Members
Resources
Whopper Club
Politics
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Forums
General
Conservation
Native Treaty Rights
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="wjschmaltz" data-source="post: 261026" data-attributes="member: 6150"><p>To reiterate my thoughts on this subject when it was first discussed 6 months ago here is the copy and paste from that thread - </p><p> </p><p><strong><em><span style="color: #333333">[ This is a touchy issue for me and I could go on ALL day. A few thoughts:</span></em></strong></p><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p><strong><em><span style="color: #333333">There is a much larger picture in at hand. A reservation was drawn by man and really was a forced cage for each individual tribe. When speaking on subsistence rights, (which I think the argument in a court of law will eventually lead to and why these people will get off with a shake of the finger) native people will eventually be able to say that they are partaking in a subsistence harvest wherever traditional subsistence harvest took place 300 years ago. For example, someone in a formally nomadic tribe living on the Rock could probably go shoot a deer by Jamestown and fight their way out of it by these standards. These laws need to be scrutinized and updated. </span></em></strong></p><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p><strong><em><span style="color: #333333">There is now a chunk of federal land the size of ND in northwest AK where people who do not live in the area are no longer allowed to hunt caribou. That is federal land owned by everyone who reads this; not reservation or tribal claims. They say it is because of subsistence preference. Locals in the north central and northeast part of the state are working to impose the same laws. It would make an area the size of Montana closed to caribou hunting for non-local users. No scientific backing, the AK department of fish and game opposes it saying the caribou are doing great, and a federal judge rules that subsistence rights are of upmost importance and allowed the ruling to stand. A law based strictly on malice towards “evil outsiders”. I won’t even get into the niceties that these evil outsiders provide to the villages annually.</span></em></strong></p><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p><strong><em><span style="color: #333333">Every year we still hear of reports of a half dozen musk ox or 20 caribou found dead on the tundra and filled with bullet holes. They find the guilty party, give them a trail in tribal court where they receive 20 hours of community service, and are hunting the next year. All the while bitching that the reason caribou numbers are down are because of the entitled people from the road system coming out to hunt (bulls only and less than 5% of the total harvest to boot). At some point, tribes have to decide on what their ethics really are and stick with them.</span></em></strong></p><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p><strong><em><span style="color: #333333">As far as traditional harvest is concerned, I don’t need to go too far down that road or it will ruin my day. It’s amazing how a traditional use SkiDoo 800 can be used to run down caribou and grizzlies in 6 feet of snow. Or a traditional use 22-foot Wooldridge with twin 200 hp mercs can be used to run down whales. No to mention weapons. I’m not saying it should be illegal; but tribes that hide behind “traditional use” so radical environmental groups who find this behavior offensive stand behind them are simply lying to themselves. Shit or get off the pot. I’ll leave it at that. </span></em></strong></p><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p><strong><em><span style="color: #333333">There has to be a time where everyone has to play by the same rules before it gets out of hand. These are shared resources that need to be managed properly for those in “the womb of time” as TR stated. I think there has to be something in place where tags should be available OTC for subsistence users. But if claiming that resource, a percent of government kick-backs (if claimed) need to be made unavailable. If you are harvesting an elk out of necessity for your family of 3, then why do you need the same amount of assistance as the family of 3 down the street that doesn’t harvest an elk (assistance is calculated based off necessity of family size). You cannot take from the taxpayers twice. It’s a fair trade off. And I’m not targeting natives, there are just as many white people (probably more) claiming these luxuries in AK as there are natives. I have several friends and coworkers who head off into the tundra with 100K worth of pickup/camper/trailer/ATV to fill subsistence tags and I let them know how I feel. </span></em></strong></p><p><strong><em></em></strong></p><p><strong><em></em><span style="color: #333333"><em>Eventually we all need to get on the same page and work together. Respect the native traditional harvest while natives respect and acknowledge modern convenience and don’t abuse the allowed harvest. There is a really good book called “Make Prayers to the Raven” written by an anthropologist who lived with the Athabaskan people in the early-mid 1900’s. There a a quote in that book that needs to be brought up every time the evil white man is cussed, IMO. When a young person mentioned to one of the village elders that he wishes he could go back to before the white men arrived, the elders’ response was “Have you ever had to eat Ptarmigan poop to survive the winter?” ]</em></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #333333"></span></strong></p><p><strong><span style="color: #333333"></span></strong><span style="color: #333333">Here we are 6 months later and this ruling essentially gives open season to native individuals. And just last week a proposal was submitted to the AK subsistence board to shut down all federal lands to caribou and moose hunting in GMU 13 to non-subsistence users. Making this the third hunting unit this has happened within the state. This unit is the unit most Alaskan's get their annual meat from (I think nearly 13,000 caribou tags filled per year). </span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: #333333">The way our political climate is heading with one side basically playing inter-sectional, one-up Olympics competing to "give" anything to whatever minority is willing to vote for them; we are in a potentially scary time when it comes to wildlife management. These treaties need to be re-addressed sooner rather than later. It will get worse as our political power does it's historical swing of power to the party of intersectionality. And each time it swings, the party in power becomes more and more radical. </span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wjschmaltz, post: 261026, member: 6150"] To reiterate my thoughts on this subject when it was first discussed 6 months ago here is the copy and paste from that thread - [B][I][COLOR=#333333][ This is a touchy issue for me and I could go on ALL day. A few thoughts:[/COLOR] [COLOR=#333333]There is a much larger picture in at hand. A reservation was drawn by man and really was a forced cage for each individual tribe. When speaking on subsistence rights, (which I think the argument in a court of law will eventually lead to and why these people will get off with a shake of the finger) native people will eventually be able to say that they are partaking in a subsistence harvest wherever traditional subsistence harvest took place 300 years ago. For example, someone in a formally nomadic tribe living on the Rock could probably go shoot a deer by Jamestown and fight their way out of it by these standards. These laws need to be scrutinized and updated. [/COLOR] [COLOR=#333333]There is now a chunk of federal land the size of ND in northwest AK where people who do not live in the area are no longer allowed to hunt caribou. That is federal land owned by everyone who reads this; not reservation or tribal claims. They say it is because of subsistence preference. Locals in the north central and northeast part of the state are working to impose the same laws. It would make an area the size of Montana closed to caribou hunting for non-local users. No scientific backing, the AK department of fish and game opposes it saying the caribou are doing great, and a federal judge rules that subsistence rights are of upmost importance and allowed the ruling to stand. A law based strictly on malice towards “evil outsiders”. I won’t even get into the niceties that these evil outsiders provide to the villages annually.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#333333]Every year we still hear of reports of a half dozen musk ox or 20 caribou found dead on the tundra and filled with bullet holes. They find the guilty party, give them a trail in tribal court where they receive 20 hours of community service, and are hunting the next year. All the while bitching that the reason caribou numbers are down are because of the entitled people from the road system coming out to hunt (bulls only and less than 5% of the total harvest to boot). At some point, tribes have to decide on what their ethics really are and stick with them.[/COLOR] [COLOR=#333333]As far as traditional harvest is concerned, I don’t need to go too far down that road or it will ruin my day. It’s amazing how a traditional use SkiDoo 800 can be used to run down caribou and grizzlies in 6 feet of snow. Or a traditional use 22-foot Wooldridge with twin 200 hp mercs can be used to run down whales. No to mention weapons. I’m not saying it should be illegal; but tribes that hide behind “traditional use” so radical environmental groups who find this behavior offensive stand behind them are simply lying to themselves. Shit or get off the pot. I’ll leave it at that. [/COLOR] [COLOR=#333333]There has to be a time where everyone has to play by the same rules before it gets out of hand. These are shared resources that need to be managed properly for those in “the womb of time” as TR stated. I think there has to be something in place where tags should be available OTC for subsistence users. But if claiming that resource, a percent of government kick-backs (if claimed) need to be made unavailable. If you are harvesting an elk out of necessity for your family of 3, then why do you need the same amount of assistance as the family of 3 down the street that doesn’t harvest an elk (assistance is calculated based off necessity of family size). You cannot take from the taxpayers twice. It’s a fair trade off. And I’m not targeting natives, there are just as many white people (probably more) claiming these luxuries in AK as there are natives. I have several friends and coworkers who head off into the tundra with 100K worth of pickup/camper/trailer/ATV to fill subsistence tags and I let them know how I feel. [/COLOR] [/I][COLOR=#333333][I]Eventually we all need to get on the same page and work together. Respect the native traditional harvest while natives respect and acknowledge modern convenience and don’t abuse the allowed harvest. There is a really good book called “Make Prayers to the Raven” written by an anthropologist who lived with the Athabaskan people in the early-mid 1900’s. There a a quote in that book that needs to be brought up every time the evil white man is cussed, IMO. When a young person mentioned to one of the village elders that he wishes he could go back to before the white men arrived, the elders’ response was “Have you ever had to eat Ptarmigan poop to survive the winter?” ][/I] [/COLOR][/B][COLOR=#333333]Here we are 6 months later and this ruling essentially gives open season to native individuals. And just last week a proposal was submitted to the AK subsistence board to shut down all federal lands to caribou and moose hunting in GMU 13 to non-subsistence users. Making this the third hunting unit this has happened within the state. This unit is the unit most Alaskan's get their annual meat from (I think nearly 13,000 caribou tags filled per year). [/COLOR] [COLOR=#333333]The way our political climate is heading with one side basically playing inter-sectional, one-up Olympics competing to "give" anything to whatever minority is willing to vote for them; we are in a potentially scary time when it comes to wildlife management. These treaties need to be re-addressed sooner rather than later. It will get worse as our political power does it's historical swing of power to the party of intersectionality. And each time it swings, the party in power becomes more and more radical. [/COLOR][COLOR=#333333][/COLOR] [/QUOTE]
Verification
What is the most common fish caught on this site?
Post reply
Recent Posts
Answer me this
Latest: Allen
15 minutes ago
7
NFL News (Vikings)
Latest: 701FishSlayer
Today at 1:07 AM
Presidents who added the most
Latest: grumster
Today at 12:01 AM
More CWD NE ND
Latest: grumster
Yesterday at 11:50 PM
Bismarck roads and driving
Latest: svnmag
Yesterday at 11:20 PM
Riddle Me This.....
Latest: svnmag
Yesterday at 10:28 PM
Quiet Pellet Gun
Latest: Captain Ahab
Yesterday at 9:47 PM
F
Drotto adjustment?
Latest: Fester
Yesterday at 8:41 PM
Check your bags boys
Latest: svnmag
Yesterday at 8:27 PM
I Love This Bar (NDA)
Latest: Zogman
Yesterday at 3:19 PM
Tractors
Latest: Davey Crockett
Yesterday at 11:15 AM
8
Spring snows 24
Latest: 870XPRS
Thursday at 10:14 PM
R
Tract Optics
Latest: rodcontrol
Thursday at 2:22 PM
S
Israel
Latest: snow2
Thursday at 10:35 AM
Any Birders here?
Latest: svnmag
Wednesday at 8:59 PM
Prairie ghost
Latest: johnr
Wednesday at 4:20 PM
S
Mega Live
Latest: SLE
Wednesday at 2:12 PM
G
A good movie
Latest: gillraker
Wednesday at 9:53 AM
Skinwalker Ranch
Latest: svnmag
Tuesday at 10:16 PM
ROBOT
Latest: Davey Crockett
Tuesday at 9:23 PM
Friends of NDA
Forums
General
Conservation
Native Treaty Rights
Top
Bottom