whistles vs. voice vs. TT collar vs....???

[guywhofishes]

I saw this brought up in other thread - thought it deserved its own thread.

I initially trained Royce using a whistle but I would invariably forget it in the house, in the truck, etc. so I slowly went to voice. Each year he gets better and better with voice commands, he heels (slows down or comes back to within range), etc. Not great - but also not "take his unlistening butt home and leave it there" level either.

He very much enjoys being out and being in on the hunt and stays engaged for hours - until he's blown and tired - but even then he stays engaged but ranges far less and puts his nose into much less. He "gets it" and you can tell he wants success.

Is it too late to switch back to non-voice? I don't want to be "that guy" scaring pheasants for my group by hollering "Royce!", "heel" or "whoa!" when he ranges off too far or I need him to switch sides or range to a friend's thick patch while I am in thin cover.

So... pea whistle? No pea? Or go "stealth" with the TT collar that beeps or vibrates? It seems like a potential hassle to have to use your hands to hit a controller.

If I do switch - how? Voice and whistle together until he realizes it's the new language?

Please discuss. I would like to learn.

 

[DirtyMike]

I really like the vibrating and beeping collar for getting the dog back. Unfortunately I trained her as voice (first warning), beep (second warning), small small shock (final result). She responds well to woah and leave it, as long as the collar is one. If she jail breaks the house she has her own agenda. whistle and voice make just as much noise so I won't apologize to the group for actually controlling my pooch.

 

[guywhofishes]

At no point does Royce go more than 50-60 yds out ahead as he's very much a "stick with the pack" dog and he wants to be in the group - so it's more of a reminder to him that he needs to wait for us or swing to the other side type calls. He doesn't go running off for the hills like some dogs (that would drive me insane).

A trainer who kenneled him when we vacationed last winter told me that poodles are "primitive hunters" and they stay quite close by nature and hunt "with" the hunter. Not sure if that's exactly what "primitive" style means but that's what I think he said.

 

[NDwalleyes]

I've been in your boat. Our dog was collar trained. He is very rangy until he tires, which in the winter can be later in the day. The beep/vibrate is a nice option once they know who is in charge. I don't think you are ever to late to switch to the collar. They get smart in a hurry when you put a little zip on them...especially if you have a stubborn male.

The only issue I have had with the first walks is that they get so excited that they don't hear or feel the vibration. Mine gets so locked in to hunting that he is in his own world. It takes a little zip of current to bring him back down to earth.

 

[gonefshn]

I'm all for the collars that have a vibrate or beep. It makes a hunt so nice. My last lab I trained so that if she was starting to get a little too far (such as when she was on a scent) that if I hit the vibrate she'd then know she was getting too far and would turn and start working again. It makes the hunt so much more enjoyable by not having a person yelling at their dog or blowing an irritating whistle constantly. I also found that by eliminating all that yelling and whistling your birds held a lot better. So if you want a nice peaceful hunt, get a collar with a beep or vibration and get rid of the noise.

 

[guywhofishes]

I like peace and quiet - a LOT. It's half the enjoyment of getting out of town.

Which collar is a good one?

 

[DirtyMike]

I like peace and quiet - a LOT. It's half the enjoyment of getting out of town.

Which collar is a good one?

Well, my parents just bought a new one at menards on Friday. They realized they lost their charger for the new one they bought the previous year so they needed a replacement. I can't remember the name but I'll have it in a day or two. Has vibrate, beep and shock.

 

[johnr]

My GSP will need a jolt when with a group, but just him and I or a couple of us he is about perfect. The problem is that when I give him a zap even the lowest level he won't hunt for a good half hour and just walks beside me, that to me is worse than him ranging out a ways, as he usually just locks on point until we catch up anyway. Add a flushed to the mix and it can be a challenge as the dogs seem to compete.
I hunt with a dog yelling fool, it really sucks, as he is screaming at his dags all frickin day

 

[SDMF]

whistle and voice make just as much noise.

Whistles don't spook birds .1% as much as voices.

Whistles are for the most part relatively inexpensive. There's no shame in buying a dozen of them so that they're everywhere you need them and 2 of each in the good spots (like 2 in the glove box and 2 more in the center counsel, with a 5th in the door pocket for emergencies).

Guy, is no pee even an option over 50?

 

[guywhofishes]

no issues here - knock on "wood"

 

[DirtyMike]

Whistles don't spook birds .1% as much as voices.

Whistles are for the most part relatively inexpensive. There's no shame in buying a dozen of them so that they're everywhere you need them and 2 of each in the good spots (like 2 in the glove box and 2 more in the center counsel, with a 5th in the door pocket for emergencies).

Guy, is no pee even an option over 50?

They may not spook birds but I whistles are friggen annoying. I have to wear and use one every weekend from November to March. As was said before, my gsp will hunt just fine unless with a big group or other dogs. She needs a good run before the first walk of the day but unfortunately, we only get about a half a day out of her now.

 

[Ponyroper]

My brother and a friend bring their dogs (GWP) when they come to hunt and they drive me nearly insane with their constant whistling trying to keep their undisciplined dogs within 100 yards. Sometimes it sounds like you're in the middle of a covey of refs at a bad football game. The whistles seldom help and they are constantly busting birds way out of range but boy are they proud when their dog goes on point every once in a while. Unfortunately half the time it's a false point and a waste of time running up to the dog. My current old Lab cross stays right in front of me and when she gets on a trail and starts to run down a tree row without me a little buzz and she turns around and comes back-no yelling or whistling needed. When I tease them about all the birds their dogs ran past and that my dog puts up their response is usually that I'm just, "Shitass lucky.". Just for an example, years ago we used to party hunt when there weren't many birds to shoot and one day me and my dog got 7 birds and my dog picked up a bird with a broken wing that some other hunter had lost. My brother got one bird and our friend got none. Needless to say, we don't 'party hunt' anymore. ;-) On top of that my old lab was a natural pointer and if the bird didn't run he just stood there close to the bird until I got close enough to flush it. Sure miss old Thumper.

 

[guywhofishes]

I've only got about a half day in my legs these days.

- - - Updated - - -

So it's not a PITA to have to carry a remote and be pushing the button every few minutes? Do they pin to your vest? Lanyard?

 

[Duckslayer100]

I have both my GWPs voice, whistle and collar trained. Everything has a time and place.

The whistle gets used if they're in the thick stuff and I want them to cast one way or the other, or come back to me.

The collar tone gets used quite often, as I just don't like making noise when I hunt. Plus it's always on them, so there's no doubt they can hear it if it's windy or they've ranged far.

Voice is typically only for "dead bird" or "good boy!" I rarely use commands in the field.

But I picked up an Alpha during the summer and am absolutely jacked to try it this year. I know I've zapped them off birds before when they were holding on point but I couldn't locate them. No more panic mode for this guy! Just look on the GPS and walk to the dog on point. Gonna be like taking candy from fat kids!

 

[guywhofishes]

Does the alpha give you indication that the dog is on point - by recognizing that it's not changing position?

Just curious. Royce doesn't point - much. He sort of half-points on occasion (goes slow with pointy poses).

He does fully point - and holds for minutes - on mice in the yard under bricks or brush.

 

[SDMF]

E-collers, whistles, voice commands, boots, beatings, ball bats, tasers, tire irons, and bull-whips are all ineffective if the dog isn't trained in the 1st place.

 

[Finaddict]

I used a beeper collar with the vibrate pager on my Brittany. Rarely needed to jolt him. The pager was enough. The beeper had a silent running mode, (beep on point) or continuous beep while hunting, with a tone change when on point. Very nice in heavy cover. Don't use it now since he is too old to hunt. It is a Dogtra brand. STRONGLY recommend this brand. Excellent service and parts availability (new rechargeable batteries). You're welcome to try it out if you want. I use a Dogtra vibrate/page shock collar on my lab. Also works great. Smaller and waterproof. Both have variable power so I can just nick them, or increase the shock if needed.

 

[snow]

I agree,tone/vib collar is a must for late season roosters,I 've watched guyz pull up to a section of crp,.get out slam the truck doors(birds jumpin 200yds away) they don't see'em,then let the dogs out,hollar/whistle more birds jumpin,after watching this occure over the years everytime I bump into these type of hunters I always drive down wind to the next section road and either pass shoot or watch where the birds go and get permission to get after'em.

Get the collar for Royce,leave the whistle in your shell box unless you have a pointer,thats a different deal but I have yet to see a pointer hold late season roosters,pointer or flusher once these birds are busted a few times they get jumpy.

 

[SDMF]

So it's not a PITA to have to carry a remote and be pushing the button every few minutes? Do they pin to your vest? Lanyard?

Lanyard, some newer vests have built in tethers. Roughly the size of an I-pilot remote.

Duckslayer 100 has things figured out. Doggie's gotta speak 3 languages, voice, collar, and whistle. I could definitely see foregoing the whistle and subbing in the buzzer. My current pooch hates the buzz more than the electric shock though so buzz for him would be counterproductive.

 

[Duckslayer100]

Does the alpha give you indication that the dog is on point - by recognizing that it's not changing position?

Just curious. Royce doesn't point - much. He sort of half-points on occasion (goes slow with pointy poses).

He does fully point - and holds for minutes - on mice in the yard under bricks or brush.

Yup...there are two functions (which as far as I can tell are virtually the same): you can set the unit to "point" or "treed."

I don't know how long the dog needs to stand still, but after a little bit the transmitter will notify you that a dog is on point. You can check the map to see where the dog is or, in my case, which dog it is.

Even if your dog doesn't point (or at least not well) I think the Alpha is huge for the simple fact that it offers piece-of-mind. I rarely get to hunt the mowed golf greens that are western North Dakota's phez range, thus relegated to the meager cattail-chocked margins here in the east. With that cover it's very easy to lose track of a dog. I ran bells on my dogs always, but unless you're keeping extra close attention to them, they can still get lost after hitting point. I usually made it work out in the end, but this will take out all the guesswork.

Plus, no more worrying if they're in the next county, or simply chasing down a cripple. I know exactly where both dogs are at all times.