Direct Payments to farmers/ranchers

[Bri-guy]

I always read these threads and laugh at the absolute irony from many on here. The same people that tout libertarian and conservative values are now happy that the government is going to simply give money to people that need help and didn't prepare for the tough times. You know what that is? That's democratic socialism. But they only think it's a good idea when it benefits them, and it's a terrible idea when it benefits anyone else.

The same people that froth at the mouth over "too much government" and "too much regulation" are getting in line for the government to save their business. I guess that's just enough government for them, right? Unless it's someone else who needs to be helped. Then screw them, they should've taken better precautions. It's just ridiculous and I hope you see the irony.

 

[eyexer]

we have woven quite a web with our ag policies. but we are married to it now. we have to bail them out now or we're screwed. trying to soften the blow to tax payers with "cheap food" is bullshit because I have yet to find this cheap food. Bought any beef lately? 40-50 years ago the majority of farmers ran used equipment and drove beat up old pickups and sprayed with those very pickups. Now look at em. They have obviously done extremely well. The lending practices have become nuts. They obviously are making enough money on good years to pay into a fund to help those down the line that run into issues like this drought. Every other business carries insurance of any/all kinds necessary. Why should ag be any different. We all knew the ag industry was going to have to make a major correction and maybe that time has come. I don't want to see any of them fail but like any business the piss poor operators need to go belly up. Somehow the whole system needs to be reworked.

 

[Captain Ahab]

Trying to avoid taxes during the good years sounds like my cousin purchasing the biggest combine John Deer makes at Christmas. Not much need that time of year, but he said if he didn't buy it then the bast(**&^ds in Washington would get it. He wasn't afraid of paying some taxes he was afraid of paying any taxes.

So he decided to give it to depreciation instead. The moment he fires that up the resale probably plummeted by 20-25%. Could have just paid the 15-25% taxes and had cash in his hand.

 

[PrairieGhost]

So he decided to give it to depreciation instead. The moment he fires that up the resale probably plummeted by 20-25%. Could have just paid the 15-25% taxes and had cash in his hand.

On the other hand I know a couple of smart old bachelors who passed away a few years ago that had nearly two million each off a section of land each. They overwintered down in Arizona every winter for the past 35 years. Stopped cattle in the 1940's and went grain. I remember the one saying "why should I buy one of those self propelled combines when I have a perfectly good engine in my John Deer". They were not big farmers, they didn't make a bundle, but they were frugal. Not cheap, frugal. They were my dad's age born in 1908 and 1910 and unlike many went to college. Their brothers and sisters all went to at least two years at NDSU. They didn't just spray or fertilize at the drop of a hat they actually would do ten soil samples from each field and test in their house. For guys that age they were ahead of their time.

I am lucky if I don't get lung cancer. As a kid out summer fallowing the muffler came off the old 660 International. At about five miles an hour the exhaust curved back just perfect to get me right in the face. Times sure have changed.

You know why the democrats have some success? Because they always talk about the little guy. The guy who makes 100K looks at the millionaire and thinks of himself as the little guy. The guy who makes a million a year looks at the guy who makes 20 million a year and thinks of himself as the little guy, and on and on. Feeling like the little guy is appealing to many. Here is a hint. Don't complain to people who have less than you. Don't ask people who have less than you to bail your ass out. Don't spend ten times what some people do then expect them to save you from your extreme living ways.

Also when you talk about cheap food please be honest with us. You keep out milk from other states to keep prices up. You keep Canadian beef out to keep prices up. You keep Canadian wheat out to keep prices up. We could have much cheaper food, but we do want to support you. You can't have it all.

 

[gst]

Yes they were down no doubt , but in lots of the state it was record yields for many crops

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I'm not a farmer but have land and am very Pro farmer ... it's not that bad , but they have a lot on the line every year and one bad year can really screw things up

Last year had a barley contract. $5+/bushel. Barley ran 96 bus. Have never before raised 96 bushel barley.

49# 94 plump 12.5 protein beautiful white color no rain............they probed 4 bins off one quarter. Vomitoxin test ran from .8 to 6. Malt company claims it is feed.....$2

Sprayed it twice with fungicide to fight the vom.......will likely lose monies on 96 bushel barley.

In our area an arbitrary vomitoxin test that varies WILDLY from elevator to elevator has taken literally millions of dollars out of many communities and this state.

the state tests protien testers and scales ect......but does not check the vom testers.

If the barley crop is short or poor quality this year suddenly the vom is irrelevant and that same barley will sell as malt with few or no discounts.

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Also when you talk about cheap food please be honest with us. You keep out milk from other states to keep prices up. You keep Canadian beef out to keep prices up. You keep Canadian wheat out to keep prices up. We could have much cheaper food, but we do want to support you. You can't have it all.

Plains you do know all; three of these statements are false right?

You should probably just stop already.

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Compare food costs to other idustrialized nations. But the comments about food costs only reiterate what this nation decided lpng ago watching history happen in regards to national security when it comes to food costs and food security programs.

People will tolerate many things, except going hungry or using all their monies to buy food.

If food costs jumped 20% many of these people complaining that farmers did not put away funds for a rainy day would be wondering where the monies would come from to pay their grocery bill as they backed into their jet ski to go to the lake.

 

[Zogman]

Originally Posted by PrairieGhost
Also when you talk about cheap food please be honest with us. You keep out milk from other states to keep prices up. You keep Canadian beef out to keep prices up. You keep Canadian wheat out to keep prices up.


Please explain this to me.

We have Grandkids in Overland Park, KS and go there about 4 times a year for the last 4 years. Of all the semis we pass in the first 300 miles or so I would guess close to half have Manitoba plates on. Fully loaded grain trucks, Hog trucks both with baby pigs and mature full size, and a few with cattle.

About 8 years ago we did a weeks worth of surveying on ND Hwy #3 north of Rugby. Anyway at least 8 and most days there were more Hog trucks were coming south. I assume heading to Mandan.

Can that be explained???

 

[Allen]

I'll first start off by saying I'm 28 and ranch in the heart of the drought (D4). I have put up no hay this year because our hay crop never came. We were dry last year and I had bought hay to keep my cow herd together. This year I don't think I will survive this one. It will cost me around $125,000 to buy hay to keep my cows.
Cow calf operations are hardly making money the last two years. Sure cattle were high 3 years ago, but alot of places were making payments on hay purchases from prior drought years. Packers and retailers are the ones making the money right now. The only way to fix that would be to open more packing plants to increase competition for fed cattle.
ND is expecting to disperse 45-55% of its cow herd this year. Thats not good for anyone. I'm not saying I'm looking for a handout, but it would especially help out the younger generation of ranchers. I'm not ranching to make millions I ranch because I enjoy the lifestyle.
Farmers and ranchers buy at retail, sell at wholesale and pay freight both ways.

Coyote, I feel for ya. I drove through the D4 area last week and was amazed at the lack of grass in some of the hayfields. I could see where a guy went in to cut it and then just said "screw it, it ain't worth the fuel" on several fields.

Have you checked NDSU's webpage and the ND Ag Commissioner's office for programs and help? Ranchers absolutely get the short-end of the stick when it comes to disaster aid, but there is some help available.

 

[johnr]

As an insurance agent, I would like to add you can insure your hay ground, your pasture land for drought, and your cattle prices for a future fallen market.

There are insurance policies out there to cover these exact same problems, and I have plenty of guys that do, however the losses would still be felt with the insurance in effect, it just softens the blow considerably.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

PG said,

Also when you talk about cheap food please be honest with us. You keep out milk from other states to keep prices up. You keep Canadian beef out to keep prices up. You keep Canadian wheat out to keep prices up. We could have much cheaper food, but we do want to support you. You can't have it all.

May your food come from a country that uses Dichlorodiphenyltrichloroethane.

 

[PrairieGhost]

I will say I feel bad for ranchers more so then crop farmers. Ranching is a 24/7/365 gig and definitely slim margins most years. Rather then direct payments I'd like to see more assistance for feeding and watering programs to get them thru severe drought situations. I'm sure they would appreciate that more as well.

Can't be 24/7/365 some spend more than half their time on here. ;:;popcorn

 

[gst]

Originally Posted by PrairieGhost
Also when you talk about cheap food please be honest with us. You keep out milk from other states to keep prices up. You keep Canadian beef out to keep prices up. You keep Canadian wheat out to keep prices up.


Please explain this to me.

We have Grandkids in Overland Park, KS and go there about 4 times a year for the last 4 years. Of all the semis we pass in the first 300 miles or so I would guess close to half have Manitoba plates on. Fully loaded grain trucks, Hog trucks both with baby pigs and mature full size, and a few with cattle.

About 8 years ago we did a weeks worth of surveying on ND Hwy #3 north of Rugby. Anyway at least 8 and most days there were more Hog trucks were coming south. I assume heading to Mandan.

Can that be explained???

Plainsman is likely now "ignoring" you as well..

I have provided links to information than shows these statements to be false to plainsman on more than one occasion in the past, (back before he was "ignoring" me kinda) yet he CHOOSES to keep making them. At what point does being misinformed turn into flat out lying?

One would think a church elder could answer that.

 

[Coyotefool69]

As an insurance agent, I would like to add you can insure your hay ground, your pasture land for drought, and your cattle prices for a future fallen market.

There are insurance policies out there to cover these exact same problems, and I have plenty of guys that do, however the losses would still be felt with the insurance in effect, it just softens the blow considerably.

I do purchase hay insurance, it will help getting some hay put together. It's hard to find good quality hay at a reasonable price unless it's 250-300miles away and freight gets a guy there again. I called a fellow in Jamestown on some prairie hay (crp) he just put up. He wants $110 a ton. It would cost me $150 a ton for CRP hay with little to no nutritional value. On the cattle side, I always forward contract cattle just to take some risk out of it. Margins are tight the way it is and if a guy can make a few bucks I figure he better take it rather than gamble. I'm looking at more of a "rain or precipitation" insurance instead of pasture insurance. I better get off of here and go plant some cover crops. If I get it in before this rain coming tomorrow and Sunday I may have something to graze this fall. Let er rain!

 

[PrairieGhost]

Originally Posted by PrairieGhost
Also when you talk about cheap food please be honest with us. You keep out milk from other states to keep prices up. You keep Canadian beef out to keep prices up. You keep Canadian wheat out to keep prices up.


Please explain this to me.

We have Grandkids in Overland Park, KS and go there about 4 times a year for the last 4 years. Of all the semis we pass in the first 300 miles or so I would guess close to half have Manitoba plates on. Fully loaded grain trucks, Hog trucks both with baby pigs and mature full size, and a few with cattle.

About 8 years ago we did a weeks worth of surveying on ND Hwy #3 north of Rugby. Anyway at least 8 and most days there were more Hog trucks were coming south. I assume heading to Mandan.

Can that be explained???

A couple years ago our local grocery store got in trouble for purchasing milk in Minnesota. NAFTA perhaps solved the wheat thing. I remember farmers wanting it, then when they found out which direction the wheat was going they threw a fit. They were on the North Dakota/Canadian border stopping truck drivers and threatening people. Many of these laws have gone by the wayside, but they were pushed by farmers in the past. My only point is they tell us that they provide cheap food, but they have had laws past preventing us from buying cheap food. It makes no difference what the law is now I'm talking about what they have done and perhaps are still doing. I just call bs on them wanting to supply us with cheap food.

NAFTA was great when they thought they would be the ones benefiting. Now they deny supporting it, and want to play the victim.

 

[Allen]

I do purchase hay insurance, it will help getting some hay put together. It's hard to find good quality hay at a reasonable price unless it's 250-300miles away and freight gets a guy there again. I called a fellow in Jamestown on some prairie hay (crp) he just put up. He wants $110 a ton. It would cost me $150 a ton for CRP hay with little to no nutritional value. On the cattle side, I always forward contract cattle just to take some risk out of it. Margins are tight the way it is and if a guy can make a few bucks I figure he better take it rather than gamble. I'm looking at more of a "rain or precipitation" insurance instead of pasture insurance. I better get off of here and go plant some cover crops. If I get it in before this rain coming tomorrow and Sunday I may have something to graze this fall. Let er rain!

Yep, the hay prices I have heard of are anywhere from ~$70-$120 a bale at auction in SD. Sheesh, at ~1,000 lb bales, that's an insane cost per ton.

 

[gst]

A couple years ago our local grocery store got in trouble for purchasing milk in Minnesota. NAFTA perhaps solved the wheat thing. I remember farmers wanting it, then when they found out which direction the wheat was going they threw a fit. They were on the North Dakota/Canadian border stopping truck drivers and threatening people. Many of these laws have gone by the wayside, but they were pushed by farmers in the past. My only point is they tell us that they provide cheap food, but they have had laws past preventing us from buying cheap food. It makes no difference what the law is now I'm talking about what they have done and perhaps are still doing. I just call bs on them wanting to supply us with cheap food.

NAFTA was great when they thought they would be the ones benefiting. Now they deny supporting it, and want to play the victim.

;:;banghead plains look out when you are backpedaling that hard you don't trip over your own ass.

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Also when you talk about cheap food please be honest with us. You keep out milk from other states to keep prices up. You keep Canadian beef out to keep prices up. You keep Canadian wheat out to keep prices up.

and............

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It makes no difference what the law is now I'm talking about what they have done and perhaps are still doing.

Okay then.

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can somebody he is not "ignoring" just tell him to give it a rest.

 

[Kurtr]

Yep, the hay prices I have heard of are anywhere from ~$70-$120 a bale at auction in SD. Sheesh, at ~1,000 lb bales, that's an insane cost per ton.

dang i might have to bail my yard a couple bails would pay for some fun

 

[PrairieGhost]

Yep, the hay prices I have heard of are anywhere from ~$70-$120 a bale at auction in SD. Sheesh, at ~1,000 lb bales, that's an insane cost per ton.

When we went to Sakakawea a few days ago I talked with a ranch lady who's husband and kids were haying north west of Devils Lake. We are in bad drought here in Jamestown too, but not as bad as north of Sakakawea.

 

[Allen]

Correct.

 

[Ericb]

Would grass clippings be any of benefit to the ranchers? Any nutrition? To many chemicals? I could get the boy a 2nd job running around town collecting them all.

 

[watson]

Watson said,



Yep, I remember that. You guys lost half your producers. Today at $5 dollars hanging weight and $5 dollars per pound live weight for calves, how many "new" producers do you have?

Very few because banks, at least the damn ones around here, consider them specialty livestock and ask for 40+% down.