Kratom

[eyexer]

I did some research on it the past day and it doesn't appear to be anything you want to screw with unless you extremely desperate. Wow some of the shit it can do to people is absurd.

 

[Davey Crockett]

I did some research on it the past day and it doesn't appear to be anything you want to screw with unless you extremely desperate. Wow some of the shit it can do to people is absurd.

We must have missed that part , What does it do to people ? The only negative we have read so far is the possible addiction . We both did a ton of reading and watching videos about it and we agree that at this point of our lives given our age an improvement in lifestyle is worth some risk. Still pondering and my bride is in favor of it.

 

[eyexer]

Severe headaches, nausea, halucinations, other psychotic disorders, muscle pain, in low doses it acts as amphetamine, in high doses it can act like a sedative. Been a lot of deaths associated to it. Just a whole host of things. Some drug interactions. Etc. list is really long. Based on what I read it’s a no for me. Anybody that is in any type of antidepressant or other mental disorder drug needs to run away fast

 

[Davey Crockett]

Where did you find that info eye ? We mostly looked at discussion groups from people that had been using it recreationally and got hooked on it . From other sources promoting it we gathered starting with a low dosage and gradually working up until you find the right dosage is critical . From everything I have read , The good, bad and ugly of it I wish FDA and big pharma would embrace it and set up some standard guidelines. Given the fact that there are 130 deaths each day from opioids overdose (Not counting liver and kidney failures) and 36 confirmed deaths total from kratom (being used with drugs , alcohol) I think it has been given a black eye from big pharma , FDA and the media because it's "Natural" .

That's pretty scary what I posted about FDA recall on a med that I am on. My wife showed me a KX13 story about it that was posted 3 hours ago. Wonder if they watch this site ? I also sent an email to ND pharmacy board looking for answers, It's a revolving door of agencies pointing fingers at each other and nobody, Including FDA has pharma under control. Something as simple as lot numbers are not recorded and kept on file. This is a serious issue that needs attention.


me to ND board of pharmacy

I am wondering if you could share what procedures are in place for drug recalls and what labeling information and record keeping is required by a pharmacy in North Dakota ? One of my medications is listed on FDAs drug recall page and my pharmacy has assured me that my prescription is not part of this recalled since it was manufactured by another company. Upon more questions of the recall procedures I was told they could not provide me with the lot # that my prescription was filled from . For safety reasons as a consumer it threw a red flag so my main question I guess is why are lot numbers not required to be printed on the labeling provided by pharmacies ?




Their response

Thanks for the question, nationally pharmacies have not had a standard to track lot numbers of commercially available product to the patient level outside of when they are conducting compounding. Much of the reason is likely how the FDA treats and operates drug recalls. The FDA has different level of recalls with the most serious being when a pharmacy would need to reach out to patients to pull back product not being tied to an individual lot number but affecting an entire manufacturer’s line of a medication (in the industry referred to a NDC number) The recall that the FDA issued that you likely experienced was a lower level recall which typically affects certain lots of product which does not require the pharmacy to attempt to reach the patient to pull back product. In this case they would examine their inventory for those specific lots to be quarantined and sent back. These recalls are usually initiated by the manufacturer based on reports they receive from patient or health care providers.

Essentially our requirements for pharmacies would be to follow the recall procedures that would be initiated by the FDA. Their wholesaler would be required to communicate recalls of affected products that they would have sent to the pharmacy. The level of the recall, set by the FDA, would determine the action the pharmacy would need to take in regards to notifying patients and/or to quarantine product for return. Documentation of the action taken should be kept for review by appropriate authorities if needed.

In saying this there are some new laws being implemented to have electronic track and trace technology in the drug supply chain which may eventually get to the point of tracking individual lots to the patient level in an electronic format. I see that as a great opportunity for better care given the complexities of medication therapies moving forward.

Hope that provides some understanding to the process of recalls.

 

[lindy1420]

It's your body who the hell can tell me what works and what doesn't every person is different, what might work for some might not for others. My point is doctors will prescribe you medicine then say your addicted then wont help you get off of the medicine. This has happened both to the wife and I and the shit re kids had to see why we both are trying to get better and no one will help you, and yes there were a lot of doctors that did this. We got to the point that we will try different stuff and take it into are own hands and not let the doctors prescribe us anything or unless its absolutly needed. What might work for some may have the total opposite for another and thats with anything natural or FA approved medicine. I trust a plant way more that has been around since the beginning then some processed synthetic version. Every one has there own way of thinking. Kratom works awesome for my wife and for me so why would i care what the news says and what the FDA says. Hell if eating cow shit made me feel better i would do that also. Just my .02

 

[eyexer]

True this stuff will be bad for one and not for five others. One just has to decide whether it’s worth the risk or not. I just googled it and most the things that popped up we’re bad things regarding it. FDA info was some. Drug abuse.gov, webMD, Marconi, Mayo Clinic, etc. it can be very dangerous for some.

 

[Lapper]

I was digging for whatever information I could find on this kratom stuff and at the FDA website I noticed a recall on one of my meds due to traces of carcinogen (cancer causing agent) . There was no lot # on my container to confirm if mine was part of the recall or not so I emailed FDA a question .

Me to FDA ~ " I noticed a recent recall on Losartan due to possible carcinogen contamination and I see the affected lot # posted on your website but when I looked for the lot # on the packaging provided by my pharmacy I was surprised that there isn't one. Are we at the mercy of relying on our pharmacy to contact us about recalls or what is the safety procedure when recalls occur ?"


FDA response~ "

We greatly appreciate your time and effort in contacting the FDA to share your concern regarding the losartan drug recall. We understand your frustration with the limited information provided by your pharmacy. We recommend that you contact your pharmacy to obtain the lot number but we understand that if your medication was dispensed to you in the pharmacy’s container, then it may be difficult to track the lot number you were dispensed. Please understand that we do not regulate the practice of pharmacy and If you wish to learn about the regulation that governs what information must be provided by the pharmacy, please contact your respective state board of pharmacy.

Once you have the lot number, to find out if the losartan you take is part of the recall, please visit the following link, which lists losartan containing drugs with corresponding manufacturers and lot numbers that are affected by the recall at losartan medications under recall. Losartan belongs to a drug class called angiotensin II receptor blocker (ARB). Please see the FDA updates on ARB recalls including valsartan, losartan, and Irbesartan webpage for the most up-to-date information. Please note that the FDA continues to investigate this matter and will post new information as it becomes available. Therefore, we recommend that you check our website frequently for updates and consult with your physician regarding any medical issue.


You may also wish to view the Statement from FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb, M.D., and Janet Woodcock, M.D., director of the Center for Drug Evaluation and Research on the FDA’s ongoing investigation into valsartan and ARB class impurities and the agency’s steps to address the root causes of the safety issues for more information.

For your future reference, please be advised that you may review the drug recall notices from our Drug Recalls or Recalls, Market Withdrawals, & Safety Alerts websites.

We hope the information provided to you is helpful. If you have further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us again.



So I called my pharmacy and they couldn't provide me with a lot # but they assured me my meds were not contaminated as it was a different brand than the recalled drug . For my own information I inquired why they couldn't provide me with a lot # and it's because they take meds out of multiple bottles and there is no way to know what lot # my prescription was filled from .

Then I looked again this morning at the FDA recall and it has been updated " The recall is due to unacceptable amounts of N-Nitrosodiethylamine (NDEA) . I wish I would have taken a screenshot before the update just for the heck of it .




Not sure how or why the contaminant changed overnight but it did, I suppose further testing. There are a lot of recalls on meds and most probably go unnoticed by consumers.

one thing people don’t realize is how dangerous generics can be. When the original company is making the drug, every batch has to be something like 99.9% identical in dosage and ingredients to the original drug submitted for approval.

once it goes generic, companies from all over the world are free to start making the drug and the rules change. Now dosage needs to be within like 70% (don’t know the exact number but it’s a huge range) from the original. That means a huge swing n dosage either high or low. Doesn’t mean much on a cholesterol or blood pressure drug but has huge implications on other things like a thyroid medication.

then comes what else goes into the pill ie the fillers. A pill is never all medicine. This is where you issure came from. The pills from that Chinese company were using a carcinogen as a filler and these things are not monitored by anyone for the most part. My local Dr has many stories of patients getting really sick or having allergic reactions to different fillers.

you mentioned that your pharmacy couldn’t tell you the lot number. That’s because most places now have robots fill the rx. So they buy in bulk and dump the pills into the bin and away they go. If they get a better deal from their distribution center from another company they may get that and just dump it in and go. I’ve seen scripts filled that had several different looking pills in one bottle, all “the same” drug but look different. This makes it really tough on older folks taking multiple meds to even know what they are taking from day to day.

its a huge frickin mess!

 

[guywhofishes]

thanks Obama

 

[Davey Crockett]

I’ve seen scripts filled that had several different looking pills in one bottle, all “the same” drug but look different. This makes it really tough on older folks taking multiple meds to even know what they are taking from day to day.

its a huge frickin mess!

I had a mixture of two very different looking pills in the same refill and no mention of it when I picked up the prescription , I called a couple days later when I noticed and I was assured everything was ok it was just two batches of the same med. Another thing that is just not right is when we used to fill my mom's daily pill dispenser , she had a very small pill that she was to supposed to only take half at a time. Even with a pill cutter it was hard for us to cut such a small pill. For many years we always cut our local small town pharmacy some slack, We realized a small community pharmacy probably sells less product in a week than most pharmacies sell in a day and have to cut corners to keep the doors open. They have since been bought out by a big outfit that has 5000 stores in 50 states. As much as we would like to believe that the pharmaceutical industry is regulated to the highest standards possible so that our medication is pure, it's not the case. Most of the FDA recalls are voluntary manufacture recalls , Not from FDA testing.

 

[lindy1420]

You just have to be smart. Start off slow and work your way up. Anything can be bad for you, it all depends on how your body metabolizes it. People have to be smart. We all know pain pills are addictive and that they cause more pain in the long run but that doesnt stop people, you just have top know your limits. People will abuse kratom by taking huge doses right away to get messed up, but people also take other meds to do the same thing. Its a no win situation there will always be people wrecking stuff for the people who could really benefit from it.

True this stuff will be bad for one and not for five others. One just has to decide whether it’s worth the risk or not. I just googled it and most the things that popped up we’re bad things regarding it. FDA info was some. Drug abuse.gov, webMD, Marconi, Mayo Clinic, etc. it can be very dangerous for some.

 

[eyexer]

It appears to be highly addictive. Being smart will only apply to a certain segment of society. There is serious consideration to put it on the list with other drugs such as heroin, amphetamines etc. likely to happen I would guess.

 

[Davey Crockett]

First and foremost for any drug or herb you put in your body is do you need it or do you want it ? Would you take penicillin if you didn't have an infection ? I'd hope everyone would say no to that. would you put drugs, herbs or alcohol in your body out of peer pressure or to relax ? If so is that a want or a need ?

Common sense isn't very common for some people when it comes to putting drugs,herbs,booze etc. in their body or judging others that do. My bride and I are all for hearing first hand experience and sound advice from others and weeding through the good,bad and ugly of what we hear and make our decision based on our research. Those that truly need pain relief for long periods of time or for their lifetime tend to seek out the least invasive treatment available as long as it's feasible and available .

 

[Davey Crockett]

It appears to be highly addictive. Being smart will only apply to a certain segment of society. There is serious consideration to put it on the list with other drugs such as heroin, amphetamines etc. likely to happen I would guess.

It also appears to work just like opioids for pain but less invasive . That just could be the reason certain people/webpages want it to be schedule 1. Put recreation use aside for a second and think if tomorrow a life changing event happened to you that required a lifetime of pain relief and kratom would do the trick and Dr. gave you a choice between Kratom or oxycodone , What would you pick ?

I'll spend more time looking at research results. Another thing I saw but skimmed through it was in 2016 I believe, It was on the way to schedule 1 . There was enough believable testimony from the public to keep FDA from placing it on the schedule 1 list. Don't take that word for word because I was all speed and no control when I first started reading about this but I believe that's the way it happened. The jury is still out but It looks better than opioids so far and my bride is ready to give it a whirl but we agreed it will be a team decision.




New numbers Thursday from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show that drug overdoses killed more than 70,000 Americans in 2017.
In 2017, among 70237 drug overdose deaths, 47600 (67.8%) involved opioids



In 2017, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) began issuing a series of warnings about kratom and now identifies at least 44 deaths related to its use, with at least one case being investigated as possible use of pure kratom. Most kratom associated deaths appear to have resulted from adulterated products (other drugs mixed in with the kratom) or taking kratom along with other potent substances, including illicit drugs, opioids, benzodiazepines, alcohol, gabapentin, and over-the-counter medications, such as cough syrup.

 

[eyexer]

It’s serious shit. You have to be careful with it.

 

[Davey Crockett]

It’s serious shit. You have to be careful with it.

I agree 199 %

 

[Davey Crockett]

And Davey - my beef with hemp was the overly rosy financial success case - and for for how big ag and big gov were trying to prevent its legalization and the rosy sea change it was going to bring to farmers if only it was legal. It IS legal in lots of poor countries and, like sugar, it's hard to compete with other countries that can easily keep up with any demand for hemp fiber. But you always twist my case into something it wasn't - don't you Davey? And please refrain from making future statements about how you are able to "let things go" and "bury the hatchet". It makes you look hypocritical. That giant hemp chip on your shoulder is there to stay and we both know it. Why not embrace it and tell me off in a couple more posts so that you feel better for an hour or two and then we can act like it isn't there for a month or a year until it gets heavy again? Or better yet - send me a PM with some vulgarities. That shut me up last time.

I passed on responding to this post but it finally irked me so bad that I decided to revisit it. Its you that can't bury the hatchet and it makes you look hypocritical. I will stick with my opinion on hemp.

- - - Updated - - -


-IMHO your making an ass out of yourself over hemp but you still think your ahead

- - - Updated - - -

Go ahead and tell me off in a couple of posts but please realize when you poke the bear the bear might poke back.

 

[guywhofishes]

I passed on responding to this post but it finally irked me so bad that I decided to revisit it. Its you that can't bury the hatchet and it makes you look hypocritical. I will stick with my opinion on hemp.

- - - Updated - - -


-IMHO your making an ass out of yourself over hemp but you still think your ahead

- - - Updated - - -

Go ahead and tell me off in a couple of posts but please realize when you poke the bear the bear might poke back.

feel better now?

- - - Updated - - -

see you again in a few months

 

[Davey Crockett]

Not yet but by the end of this post I will. Clearing my name to the rest that it's you with a chip on your shoulder and not me. I don't know what is so hard for some people to understand that not all people think alike and that we don't all agree with each other. I just happen to be one that is not intimidated and I will voice my opinion even if I am one against 100. It's the way my dad taught me to be. I come here to learn and shoot the breeze nothing more-nothing less. I take you as a well educated and wealthy person and I am a poor and uneducated farm boy . I can accept that and I am happy being low man on the totem pole . What I do have a problem with though is when someone turns the tables on me or accuses me of something that isn't true. I don't have a chip on my shoulder over the hemp debate we had 5 years ago or with any other member on here over debates we have had in the past . Some of you guys make this site seem like some sort of popularity contest or something and your attitude keeps some members from posting. What is so hard about agreeing that it's ok if people disagree ?

 

[DirtyMike]

hook, line and sinker.

 

[guywhofishes]

I think it must be that "he treats me like an uneducated country boy" complex that drives your need to push back. I can't help that you feel like that.

I come from poverty. I grew up on food stamps, gov't cheese, and living in a POS trailer court. My dad was a cheating alcoholic who left hi wife and sons to fend for themselves.

Most of my relatives are blue collar salt of the earth types. My brother never graduated high school and has been a driller - that's right, a driller - his entire adulthood. And I've always admired him for it - just as I admire you for drilling career. Neither of you needed anything but your brains and hands to make a living. My oldest brother was a professional. It was he and my step-dad that had to browbeat me into pursuing secondary education. None of it came from my own drive or inclination. What I've achieved has generally landed in my lap by a gracious God to be honest.

I have an extreme aversion to conspiracy theory rhetoric or people making what I feel are trumped up claims. That's the role I play in my professional career BTW - so it's not like I choose to torture just NDA people with my need for scientific credibility. I spread the misery around the globe actually. : )

And I stated here in this thread that I am easily addicted and don't trust ebay to supply me with an addictive herb. So I'll pass on Kratom.

You got insulted because it was me making the statement, not because what I said wasn't true.

You and others can think what you want of me. I can sleep at night because I really do try to get to deal with the facts and steer people clear of junk science. The "natural" label has been abused since the 60s. I've had a bellyful of people using it to defend things that don't warrant defending. So yes, everyone can gtfoh with that "yeah but it's natural" BS because that's what it is Davey, BS.

p.s. I'm not actually wealthy - I just like pretending I am on NDA.