The Problem Facing ND Waterfowl Hunting

[Account Deleted]

I've looked into some stats going back as far as the NDGF has records. Here is a snippet for the last 10 years or so of available data (from when I requested it, there is probably 2015 data available now). These are estimates. There is no 100% accurate way of tracking resident waterfowl hunters right now.

Res. Non-Res.
2005 28,331 24,639
2006 26,560 22,277
2007 25,546 22,858
2008 24,001 18,485
2009 22,105 21,974
2010 22,664 23,624
2011 25,332 23,323
2012 25,789 23,756
2013 23,899 24,295
2014 23,606 24,252

As you can see, numbers are fairly stable. Some years there are more residents than nonresidents, some years not. You have to look back farther to see where the problem started (mid-90s).

Starting in the mid-90s, there was an explosion of non-resident waterfowl hunters. In 1994 there was about 10,000 NR hunters. By 1999, there was 21,000. By 2001, there was 30,000. That was about the peak and there was a slight downturn and now a stabilization statistically speaking. The increase coincided with MN waterfowl hunting going to shit. Their water quality took a dump and so did the duck hunting. The migration shifted west and so did the duck hunters. ND had plenty of non-posted land, a generous trespass law and was right next door. MN used to be a duck hunting Mecca if you will. It was nationally known as the place to live for serious duck hunters. Now, it's depressing at best.

Unfortunately I don't have resident numbers for the same time frame because they are just included with general game licenses. You don't fill out any paperwork when you buy a waterfowl stamp.

I feel the sudden increase in hunters was generally just absorbed to begin with. Birds were still spread out. Not much land was posted. People were able to find abundant hunting opportunities without a lot of competition.

Then, things changed. First and foremost, ag practices. I once hypothesized that corn pushed the migration later because it was a higher energy food than small grains allowing the birds to stay later. I was right but for the wrong reasons. The answer is simpler in that the corn doesn't come down until November and the birds don't like to feed in it until it comes down. Simple enough. Since there is so much of it grown now for whatever reason (ethanol) there was a major change in the migration. Birds didn't space out from September to October anymore. They show up last week of October-first week of November and freeze up often happens a week later. Birds are pushed out right away.

In addition, big changes to ag practices in Canada. For whatever reason, they started growing more waterfowl friendly crops in the late 90's and I guess leave more waste in the fields. Thus the birds stay up there and we generally get the same weather they do. So when they get pushed out of Canada, they blow past North Dakota.

Finally, hunting practices. Hunting birds in field used to be considered low-brow. Now the entire thing has been stood on its head. Field hunting is all anyone wants to do. Hunting over water is now considered crude, to which I say "bullshit". You aren't going to shoot a redhead, canvasback, or any other diver in a field. Get off my back. Also, the huge increase in pressure resulted in a lot of land getting posted up. Hard to gain permission on a field sometimes when its 8 o'clock at night and you need to be in the field at 4 AM the next morning. For the uneducated in waterfowl behavior, they get highly concentrated. They aren't like pheasant where you can kick one or two out of every other clump of cover and bang out a limit. If you don't have the field, you aren't getting birds.

Some other interesting pieces of info. About 25% of sales are for NRs are statewide licenses. Most of the NRs make hunting trips of 3-5 days. Only about 20% make a second trip. Meaning 80% aren't using the second week they are allotted.

So what to do from here forward? It is important to me to have quality hunting for everyone involved. When we are stepping all over one another hunting increasingly clumped up birds, no one is happy. So first, I think we need to find a way to get hunters spread out more. The Devils Lake area should probably be its own zone with different regulations.

Generally I'm not anti NR. I like to hunt and fish out of state so I know the struggle of being a NR. But with that being said, big game tags aren't unlimited to NRs in other states. Some years, I have to go with out. Here too as a a resident. We may need to start treating waterfowl the same and put a cap on the numbers. 10-15,000 maybe.

I would ban ethanol with a flick of the wrist if I could but that won't happen.

So, I need ideas. Things need to change if waterfowl hunting is going to be any good here. My legislators are pretty approachable and I would like to pitch some ideas to them.

 

[Retired Educator]

You mentioned one of the major issues with waterfowl hunting. Geese are staying in Canada later than they did in the past. I grew up in north central ND and when I was younger we always had snow geese in that part of the state the opening weekend of waterfowl season. Not the case now. Snow geese do come through the state much later than previous years. Good luck with convincing legislators to work on that one.

You mentioned the Canadian farming practices have changed. So have the North Dakota farmers. At the height of snow goose hunting in this state there was very little, if any, canola, soybeans, and corn grown. Now geese do like corn but I rarely see them sitting on canola or soybean fields. You have already mentioned that corn is a late season crop so that food isn't available early in the season. What used to be miles and miles of wheat, durum, and barley (all favorites of snow geese) is now a completely different landscape for geese to feed. That issue adds to your mention of finding a field to hunt. There aren't as many field food sources and because farms have grown to be much bigger it's often more difficult to find the landowner or operator.

Later seasons don't help most of the state because we are limited by frozen water. No open water, no waterfowl.

Another possible reason for less hunters is that the pheasant population for many years was much higher than when we had lots of snow geese early in the season. Getting up later and go for a nice walk was much easier for many hunters. That and equipment is pretty high-priced to get started. It used to be pretty easy to throw enough decoys in the back of the pickup to have a decent shoot. Now it seems like you not only need a pickup, you also need a pretty good size trailer to haul all the equipment. All the rock piles have been buried so there are no hiding places in the fields, meaning you also need a layout blind. Equipment is a much bigger expense than it once was. Not saying you need it all to shoot geese, but someone will try convincing you that you do. It used to be you could buy adequate decoys for about $60/dozen, now you can spend $150 for 4. No hunting of any kind is without all the latest and most modern equipment available. Could it be most of the equipment bags more hunters than the hunters bagging more game?

Sorry I don't have answers but do agree that I would love for waterfowl hunting to return to what it was 20-40 years ago. I might also add, it was way easier to shoot a limit of snow geese years ago. Shooting 5 per day seemed like a really good day. Now you need 20 to have a really good day. I have been on some good snow goose hunts the past few years and shooting a limit isn't easy. It's fun, but not easy.

 

[NodakBuckeye]

What would be interesting to see is the total days afield for residents and non residents. They could look at increasing the cost for non residents, of course the states affected could raise rates for hunters coming from Nd to hunt elk or deer or whatever. Guys who do not waterfowl might not appreciate it. In short, probably not a good answer other than capping the NR licenses at say, 75% of the previous year's resident hunter total and then figure a way to make up the funding loss. Haha

 

[USMCDI]

Cap them at 5,000 and soak the shit out of them to make up the difference.

 

[wby257]

We did this all to are self. The local Game Warden told me yrs ago that I was one of very few that took my kids hunting. And he told me just about every Nonresident had kids with. Now 20 yrs later them kids are coming back but with there friends. Its no wonder there are more Nonresidents then Residents.

 

[Trip McNeely]

nd needs a cap. the quality of hunting has taken a nose-dive. the problem is if that is brought up you get unholy bitching from the nr"s and special interest groups.... if they only would understand how much better hunting could be in nd with half the hunters. i know a good few respectable mn hunters who agree with a cap becuz they have watched the quality spiral downward as well. when i asked what they would do if we did put a cap in they simply replied we would apply for nd and sd. we would hunt whichever we drew and go to canada the other week. pretty simple. i would do the same.... i migjt even check out n.e. montana but hey wft do i know. raise the price and cap it at 20k.

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haha usmc liking your style, id go for 5k too but figured 20k would at least be a good start. ive told my buddies for years. double the price and cap it at 15-20k. you will still sell out and keep tour liscance sales money....... or make it 700, cap it at 10k and make the liscence good for all year... theyd still sell out.

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you know whats f-d up. i have seriously thoughr about applying for and hunting sd for waterfowl l
just to get away from this f-n circus. no lie a nd resident refugee hunter.

 

[Account Deleted]

I wouldn't want to price people out of hunting. We need people to support hunting and they won't do that if can't hunt themselves. I'd prefer a simple cap but I know the revenue would have to be made up somewhere. But we also need to protect the resource.

 

[NodakBuckeye]

Go further south and it will make your worst day here seem like childs play. I will never hunt Louisiana again unless I am with the Robertsons or the like. Same for Arkansas, Oklahoma.... nuts.

I sometimes wonder if NRs could make the choice to have a license good for a month if it might ease pressure? Spread things out some maybe.

 

[Flatrock]

Cap them at 5,000 and soak the shit out of them to make up the difference.

I'm sure you're not serious about that. That is just a bad idea. Don't make hunting a rich man's sport more than it already is.

 

[zoops]

Always an interesting topic. I started waterfowl hunting when I was 13, so I guess that was 1996. Obviously lucked out in that the 90s were very wet and CRP was prominent and land posting was low as was hunting pressure. My dad didn't really hunt but I was interested and had friends from hunting families so we tried to figure it out. We didn't have decoys, just drove around west of Grand Forks and jumped sloughs that had ducks, primarily mallards, on them. It always seemed as though there were birds around no matter the time in October - obviously more at certain times - but we always were able to find ducks to keep it interesting. Now, it seems as though the sloughs are practically barren of most ducks after opener, and it seems as though migrators just come later and later every year. I've hardly shot ducks in October the past few years. Not that there aren't opportunities out there but it's gotten difficult and driving around a couple nights scouting without finding anything to hunt discourages a guy pretty quickly. I field hunted almost exclusively about 10 years ago but don't do it much anymore just because finding a feed that hasn't already been spoken for is difficult. Even some areas that I know don't get hunted much don't seem to hold a lot in the middle of the season.
Certainly there is no single thing that made it change or that could change it back. I'd probably rank them as:
1) Ag practices. I've been to Canada and it's no wonder the birds don't want to leave until they have to - miles and miles of grain and peas.
2) Warmer falls. Don't have data to back that up but it seems as though it's been rare to have much of a freeze-up before November 10 in the last 10 years. Heck, it was almost Thanksgiving last year when the peak migration occurred.
3) Hunting pressure. Maybe moreso that there's not much in Canada. You find a feed of a couple thousand birds in ND and there's probably someone (or more) looking at it or with permission to it. Canada you might have half a dozen fields like that to yourself. Also, people put more disposable income into hobbies nowadays. Huge decoy spreads, traveling hundreds if not thousands of miles, scouting, etc. As Fargo and Bismarck grow exponentially I think that will get to be a factor as well.
4) Early Goose. I've got to believe that having people banging away in August and September has made ducks (and of course the Canadas) more educated and concentrated in smaller areas. Seems you used to have no trouble finding several good looking spots for regular duck opener and the last few years even that has been difficult.

I think an NR cap of ~10,000 would be reasonable just to keep it from totally getting out of control, but I don't think it would do a ton to get it back to what it was. Just too many other factors at play. I don't think land access will ever get back to what it was either but that's another discussion. That said, it would be nice to have less pressure. The pro-NR crowd always cites the money they bring in and I guess that's legitimate but if we get to a point where the hunting isn't worth coming for, the money's going to leave in a bigger way than if we just had some reasonable limits.
The discouraging thing is that every legislative session the restrictions get looser on NRs. Early season, statewide licenses being a couple examples and there are always more bills introduced that aim to loosen it further.

 

[wby257]

why any Nonresident would want to come to N.D. to hunt is be on me. I hunted in Canada for many yrs and the Waterfowl is the best I have ever seen. We averaged 69 Geese a day for 12 yrs. And that's not counting the Duck we shot in the decoys in the morning or decoyed in the evening. Best hunting I have ever seen.

 

[Retired Educator]

I think it's common to blame non-residents whenever we have a problem but let's define a non-resident. For licensing matters a non-resident is someone who doesn't live in the state. But really, a non-resident could be anyone who doesn't live in the area. Am I a non-resident when I drive a couple hundred miles to hunt pheasants? Are most of us who like to hunt mule deer non-residents when we travel to the western part of the state or drive more than 100 miles to fish one of the big lakes?

Technically we frequently act like non-residents in these instances. We usually buy some gas, might eat at a restaurant or at least stop at a convenience store to graze. Might even spend a night or two in a motel. We do everything a non-resident would do. In effect we cause the same problems for local hunters and fisherman as would a non-resident. One of the things that happen when you limit the number of non-resident hunters or fishers is prevent local businesses from benefiting from their business. No big deal unless you own one of those businesses.

From the early numbers provided about numbers of resident and non-resident hunters it doesn't appear that the total numbers have changed much at all. Perhaps it isn't the number of hunters that is the problem but the number of birds. For sure the migration has changed and not being a biologist it seems to me that food is the primary reason for the change. When the birds find to food they will congregate in a smaller area and the hunters will congregate in the same area. For snow geese the number of birds is not the problem, it's the size of the flocks in which they fly. Perhaps the easiest solution would be to put a limit on the number of snow geese allowed in one flock. Spread them out into groups of 2000 and we would have many more opportunities for all the hunters. Problem solved.

 

[Account Deleted]

That's not really the case RE. In the 90s the number of NR hunters tripled in 7 years. From 10,000 to 30,000.

 

[NodakBuckeye]

That's not really the case RE. In the 90s the number of NR hunters tripled in 7 years. From 10,000 to 30,000.

Right, but the 10 years you shared data on, aside from the 1 year at just over 18k, it has been pretty steady around 23k on average. Extra competition sucks when it is piled on your hunting areas, I get that but ND resident hunters have had 20 something years of poorer hunting because NR hunters spiked at 30k in the 90s and lowered into the low mid 20k in the 2000s? Like you said there are other factors working here and I don't know anyone that can control them. I think the style of hunting with the trailers, the vehicals and the numbers of guys in a spread, just doing what the guys on tv and videos do is a problem for many landowners and you throw in the cuthroat, whiny, bitchiness that waterfowlers are known for and guys have just gotten tired of it and have said no more. It is one thing for 3 or 4 guys and a couple bags of dekes asking to hike out to a slough versus 6 Sean Mann wannabees with more gear than the French Army wanting to march on the group that got there first.

 

[Account Deleted]

Obviously we can't control the migration. But there are things we can control to get back as much quality hunting as we can. That could be limiting hunters, spreading them out geographically or chronologically.

 

[dean nelson]

The migration shift is being drastically over simplified here. The snows are the best example since once upon a time they did the fall flight in one shot tundra to Tex. Then in the 50's they found that fields were the shit and started hitting them on the way south. People tend to look back at snows and say that such and such time frame is when they should be in such and such place. The fact is the snow goose fall flight has never been stable. In this area the first place to get them in large numbers was down in the Sand lake area then in the 80's it pushed north up into the DL area then by the 90's they shifted north to and over the border and west to J Clark and Des Lacs in ND and Estevan and white water in Canada. Now they have shifted as far as they can and pop out of the boreal forest from Brandon Manitoba up past the Quail Lakes area towards Saskatoon SK. Now it's taken some getting used to but the fall flight for the first time has become stable and you can pretty much bank on birds showing up in force around the 27th of Oct and especially if there is a full moon in there. This shift is not a product of new crops its a product of geese realizing they don't have to fly an extra thousand miles to get lunch so they head for the closest fields when they get to then it works out to around 10 miles a day for the general southerly movement of the flock till it gets a boot from the weather. It's not like geese are sitting in Canada looking at their watch and saying we need to wait ND's corn is still standing. Now all that said corn does play a big roll in the river birds as does probably the most important crop.... soy beans. See when corn and barely get buried in the snow the beans get blown clear so the birds have a place to feed so they can stay longer. And that's the key here is the bigger birds AKA the mallards and geese are short stopping and its not a new thing and has been far better for ND then bad. Places like southern IL which used to be the Canada goose meca are now almost empty and the same is now happening in SD as we steal there's. Birds that stay north burn less energy and have far less hunting pressure and are first back to the potholes so get first pick of the best breading spots. Eventually birds that know to go south are replaced by birds that have no idea NE exist.As for a cap that is never going to happen again and that's just a fact. We had a huge push in the early 2000's and all we got was a measly 30,000 cap that lasted all of a year or two. We will never get back to that point again unless there is a dramatic change in the current trend and a slow increase in posted land just won't be enough. Best shot we might have had would have been at the peak of the oil boom since many of the business owners in the NW part of the state might have been to fight for the relatively small hunting dollers but even that would have been a huge uphill battle!

 

[Retired Educator]

We can discuss caps on NR forever. We also talk about the need to introduce new hunters to our ranks to insure we can keep what we have. Doesn't seem likely to have both. It's also the fact that we are a more mobile society. Don't remember the year I first left the state to hunt but I was well past middle age, whatever that is. Now it's nothing for hunters to travel to more than one state a year to pursue the game desired. At age 50 I had traveled to maybe 1 or 2 different states or provinces to hunt or fish. Now, into my 60's the number is approaching 10. Times do change.

Also agree with Nodakbuckeye above and landowner relations. Bigger rigs and parties don't always sit well with landowners unless the landowner thinks it's necessary to charge a fee for said privilege. Typically smaller parties seem to get along better. Perhaps it's because the landowner sees someone more like themselves and for sure the landowner sees less of a mess to their property. Less wheel tracks, less garbage even for those who clean up it's hard to get everything.

 

[Account Deleted]

I'm not going to accept "never going to happen". It's a different time, a few different legislators, different people taking up the cause and social media being readily available.

 

[NodakBuckeye]

I imagine it would be a tough sell to implement a cap or lottery for NRs given that there is not a significant change (increase) in resident hunters. At least here you have a reasonable chance to find a place with some effort. I cannot stress enough how incredibly hard it is to find a place in a state like Ohio to hunt. You can beat 200 guys for blind stake on a state park dam and guys are still allowed to set up 400 feet away on you or you can go try to win a date on one of the Lake Erie wetlands or a daily drawing on a wildlife area or try to find a private spot not locked up by the same group for years and leases have cropped up there. It takes great effort but it can happen. Seems like the more attempts to spread competition out just ends up making things worse; it is goverment after all

 

[Account Deleted]

I believe you buckeye but I see the trend and I don't like it. I'm trying to make changes while there is still time.