changing nonresident bow season

[Meelosh]

you see 20 (4%) of the out of state muley hunters in a single day? - whilst hiking back into the Badlands so that you're hunting like a pro?

geez it must be bad since I bowhunted out there in the 80/90s

also - how do you know it's not us reatrds from Fargo hunting like morons and driving you batty? do you ask them there they are from? or do they wear something unique you can identify them by - like spotting the dreaded RENTAL clubs at the golf course?

They're easy to spot. They stop to pick berries when they should be hunting. ;:;rofl

 

[sweeney]

you see 20 (4%) of the out of state muley hunters in a single day? - whilst hiking back into the Badlands so that you're hunting like a pro?

geez it must be bad since I bowhunted out there in the 80/90s

also - how do you know it's not us reatrds from Fargo hunting like morons and driving you batty? do you ask them there they are from? or do they wear something unique you can identify them by - like spotting the dreaded RENTAL clubs at the golf course?

haha

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man your like a triggered liberal calm down, no need to call yourself or fellow fargonese names or glorify my pro status of hunting. I guess I identify nonresidents by there license plates mostly.

 

[SDMF]

They're easy to spot. They stop to pick berries when they should be hunting. ;:;rofl

And they smell like sweaty feet.

 

[guywhofishes]

haha

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man your like a triggered liberal calm down, no need to call yourself or fellow fargonese names or glorify my pro status of hunting. I guess I identify nonresidents by there license plates mostly.

hey, no fair - you baited me!

"Soi it's not about making it a pissing match. unless you want to interject worthless pot stirring comments, then I am all in for some good laughs."

 

[sweeney]

hey, no fair - you baited me!

"Soi it's not about making it a pissing match. unless you want to interject worthless pot stirring comments, then I am all in for some good laughs."

no worries

 

[SDMF]

geez it must be bad since I bowhunted out there in the 80/90s

In all honesty, you really wouldn't believe the numbers, especially while the velvet is on.

I can tell the story without even being there, it goes something like this:

"Well, yeah we saw you were stalking that deer but we thought we could position ourselves to get a crack at it if you bumped it. So, we came in upwind, couldn't sit still, didn't have any patients, tried to get where we could watch you stalking and ended up bumping him. Jimmy Jag-off just joined our group this year, he's nursing a 2-day hangover, was walking a creek bed where he couldn't even see, and ended up shooting the deer @ 12yds when it peeked up over the edge. Jimmy threw up 3 times while he was gutting it."

We only get to hunt here for X # of days so we have to take advantage of every deer we spot. It costs us $$XX to come here and we expect a deer for that kind of $$. You live here, you can hunt them all season.

What do you mean it's posted? It's the fuggin' Badlands, it's all public!

We don't need to change NR season dates, we need to require NR's to come take a weekend course in hunter etiquette and pass an archery proficiency test.

 

[KDM]

thanks for the input gramps :::

Alright. You want input from gramps, here it is. First of all, what will you be gaining by knocking back the NR season for two weeks?? I've hunted mulies enough to know that patterning mulies is like herding cats, so you won't gain anything on the NR's there thinking you will be able to get on more deer. Second, hot weather, ie. early season ISN'T prime time to see, much less hunt those mature bucks most guys covet, so you gain nothing on the NR's there. In fact, you will be pushing more NR's toward cooler temps and a better chance at having a good hunt. Third, if the first two weeks were for residents only, I submit that would only cause the majority of resident hunters to focus on those first two weeks of the season, pushing the numbers of hunters crawling the hills after mulies to the same number you have now with the NR's. Any gain there? Fourth, every NR pays over 250 bucks to get those tags that you only pay 30 for. Are you going to want to make up the difference in NR tag sales if there is a drop in funding? If you are willing to pay more, will everyone be willing, or able to follow suit?? Well, once we start getting into the "Lets raise the tag prices" we will inevitably hear complaints about how "We can't let hunting turn into a rich mans sport, or have the pay to play hunting!", which will cause this gramps to shake my head and ask....WTF over?? Is that good enough input??

 

[measure-it]

The poll asks if ND bow season's first 2 weeks should limit non-res to private lands only--GREAT-Let's give more reason for leases and posted access!

 

[sweeney]

As long as that course is opening weekend......

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Alright. You want input from gramps, here it is. First of all, what will you be gaining by knocking back the NR season for two weeks?? I've hunted mulies enough to know that patterning mulies is like herding cats, so you won't gain anything on the NR's there thinking you will be able to get on more deer. Second, hot weather, ie. early season ISN'T prime time to see, much less hunt those mature bucks most guys covet, so you gain nothing on the NR's there. In fact, you will be pushing more NR's toward cooler temps and a better chance at having a good hunt. Third, if the first two weeks were for residents only, I submit that would only cause the majority of resident hunters to focus on those first two weeks of the season, pushing the numbers of hunters crawling the hills after mulies to the same number you have now with the NR's. Any gain there? Fourth, every NR pays over 250 bucks to get those tags that you only pay 30 for. Are you going to want to make up the difference in NR tag sales if there is a drop in funding? If you are willing to pay more, will everyone be willing, or able to follow suit?? Well, once we start getting into the "Lets raise the tag prices" we will inevitably hear complaints about how "We can't let hunting turn into a rich mans sport, or have the pay to play hunting!", which will cause this gramps to shake my head and ask....WTF over?? Is that good enough input??

thanks for taking the time to express your opinion

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The poll asks if ND bow season's first 2 weeks should limit non-res to private lands only--GREAT-Let's give more reason for leases and posted access!

I take it you voted for something else thanks

 

[guywhofishes]

some pretty good points being made on both sides

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no easy solution... shocking

 

[shorthairman]

Well...I was going to comment, but Gramps's input pretty much covered it...plus some!

 

[labhunter66]

I do think licenses are too cheap and probably a little too plentiful given the success rates you can have in North Dakota compared to some of the other western states. If it costs me $500-600 to get a license in others states then it should be in that same ball park here. It used to be that non-resident licenses were more restrictive than they are now but a legislator from Watford City had some outfitter buddies and got it pushed to 15% of the previous years mule deer tags. I think a better number would be 10% at this point given people are definitely becoming more proficient at harvesting deer with a bow.

 

[pluckem]

I didn't make it out west for the opener this year, but also heard from some they have never seen so many hunters and MN and WI plates out there.

My opinion... One needs to look at the larger picture and understand why this is an issue. Even larger than just ND. If there was enough access and deer available for a quality hunt, you wouldn't have much issue with other hunters. But access continues to get more difficult and big game numbers continue to drop.

I apply for big game in 7 other states, so I know what being a NR feels like. The increase is big tag prices over the last decade is concerning. It is happening in every other western state. The states are increasing tag and license costs, at the same time it is getting more and more difficult to obtain a tag as a nonresident. A NR deer tag in MT is pushing $600, Wyoming is $375 - $660, and we are sitting at $250.

They say hunter numbers are dropping, however the information age with social media, phone apps, internet forums, etc is simplifying the process and effort required to hunt out of state. Point creep in Wyoming has had the majority of nonresidents actually lose ground in the odds of drawing a tag. 3 years ago people with 5 points had a better chance of drawing then those same people do now with 8 points. Colorado's new point system will create the same thing for the limited draw hunts. Most of these states are cashing in on the increase in demand and if they haven't yet you know they will in the future.

I wish it was simple... public land, public resource... everyone should be able to utilize it and do so affordably. However, the resource doesn't seem to be keeping up with the demand so we have this trending snowball effect of higher prices, higher pressure, less opportunity, and lower quality hunts.

How do you turn that around?

Increasing habitat and access would help, but that takes $$$ and where do you get that from?

A rambling post with no answers, but my point is there are much larger issues at play and will be in the future

 

[sweeney]

First off i am not calling you out to start a fight just letting you know my opinion

Alright. You want input from gramps, here it is. First of all, what will you be gaining by knocking back the NR season for two weeks?? I've hunted mulies enough to know that patterning mulies is like herding cats, so you won't gain anything on the NR's there thinking you will be able to get on more deer.
Personally I think patterning mulies over there summer/early fall bachelor range isn't like herding cats, usually if you can narrow their travel times and corridors along with main water/food sources used, granted maybe they won't travel the same trail every day but knowing they are there and using glass to get yourself into/infront of those common corridors is pretty effective especially while they are still bachelored up.
Second, hot weather, ie. early season ISN'T prime time to see, much less hunt those mature bucks most guys covet, so you gain nothing on the NR's there. In fact, you will be pushing more NR's toward cooler temps and a better chance at having a good hunt.
I agree hot weather isn't prime time but a lot of good bucks are taken early season, mostly because of the bachelor groups they are in or the patterning of them to water and to food sources like alfala etc. I want people to have good hunts NR or resident I think that the over abundance of NR first two weekends puts a lot of stress on the deer and probably causes the patterns they have been following since early august to change quicker than usual. Trust me when i say this i don't want to get rid of NR hunters to better my chances of harvesting a deer. most of the time i am using the camera to take pictures early season, or running the spotting scope, the majority of my hunting is from October to December. I have plenty of nice deer on the wall or in the shed and don't care if i shoot another deer in velvet. So this change wouldn't be for my hunting gain.
Third, if the first two weeks were for residents only, I submit that would only cause the majority of resident hunters to focus on those first two weeks of the season, pushing the numbers of hunters crawling the hills after mulies to the same number you have now with the NR's. Any gain there?
I think the people that are going to hunt opening weekend will hunt it regardless of NR hunters, saying that residents will come out of the wood work is kind of hypothetical I guess it could happen but I doubt it.
Fourth, every NR pays over 250 bucks to get those tags that you only pay 30 for. Are you going to want to make up the difference in NR tag sales if there is a drop in funding?
again kind of a hypothetical outcome I doubt that there will be left over mule deer bow tags, but if there are 100 of them left over that is 100 more tags to go towards the general lottery and a loss of revenue of 22K i get that. but it's probably not going to happen because people hear that ND has first come first serve mule deer tags they would probably pay 500$.
If you are willing to pay more, will everyone be willing, or able to follow suit?? Well, once we start getting into the "Lets raise the tag prices" we will inevitably hear complaints about how "We can't let hunting turn into a rich mans sport, or have the pay to play hunting!", which will cause this gramps to shake my head and ask....WTF over?? Is that good enough input??
Yea i always enjoy hearing your input and really respect the things you do for outdoorsman and kids in general but i think you might be over reacting using worse case scenarios to some of this. The only thing that for sure would happen if the NR season was pushed back would be that there are no NR hunters the first 2 weekends. sorry if the gramps comment got you over exited.

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I didn't make it out west for the opener this year, but also heard from some they have never seen so many hunters and MN and WI plates out there.

My opinion... One needs to look at the larger picture and understand why this is an issue. Even larger than just ND. If there was enough access and deer available for a quality hunt, you wouldn't have much issue with other hunters. But access continues to get more difficult and big game numbers continue to drop.

I apply for big game in 7 other states, so I know what being a NR feels like. The increase is big tag prices over the last decade is concerning. It is happening in every other western state. The states are increasing tag and license costs, at the same time it is getting more and more difficult to obtain a tag as a nonresident. A NR deer tag in MT is pushing $600, Wyoming is $375 - $660, and we are sitting at $250.

They say hunter numbers are dropping, however the information age with social media, phone apps, internet forums, etc is simplifying the process and effort required to hunt out of state. Point creep in Wyoming has had the majority of nonresidents actually lose ground in the odds of drawing a tag. 3 years ago people with 5 points had a better chance of drawing then those same people do now with 8 points. Colorado's new point system will create the same thing for the limited draw hunts. Most of these states are cashing in on the increase in demand and if they haven't yet you know they will in the future.

I wish it was simple... public land, public resource... everyone should be able to utilize it and do so affordably. However, the resource doesn't seem to be keeping up with the demand so we have this trending snowball effect of higher prices, higher pressure, less opportunity, and lower quality hunts.

How do you turn that around?

Increasing habitat and access would help, but that takes $$$ and where do you get that from?

A rambling post with no answers, but my point is there are much larger issues at play and will be in the future

great post

 

[PrairieGhost]

I went for a drive North of the TRNP last night and counted six out of state plates pulled over along the road and some had guys off the road glassing. I didn't see any residents other than myself hunting. We seen 31 deer only two bucks. If it isn't a good rack I'll stick an arrow in a better tasting deer back home.
As far as limiting no residents hmmm I'll have to think about that.
Labhunter66 I do think the percentage increase was our legislature shafting resident hunters for the benefit of outfitters. If it was only dollars then they would increase the license fee. What was the percentage of non residents in 1980 and why did it change?

 

[KDM]

Don't worry about picking a fight, I prefer discussion and the term gramps makes me giggle anyway. I like to say that every grey hair I have stands for one stupid thing I've done in the past. Back to the topic. Sounds to me like too many hunters in your area are what you want to change. Nothing new there, and boils down to being selfish and wanting to restrict other hunters for your own benefit. Sounds like every other change to seasons, tags, and type of hunting thread on here. As far as my points being hypothetical, how is your assumption that restricting NR's for the first two weeks will improve your hunt not hypothetical?? What I'm trying to do is find out what, if any, benefits or improvements to your hunt do you think will happen by changing the NR season dates? I see none. Furthermore, restricting access to other hunters only results in the restriction of your own hunting. You can't claim to be for public access on public lands for yourself and then put restrictions on access to public lands upon someone else. It's a bitch, I know. I'd like to have solo access to the entirety of ND public land, but then it wouldn't be public, would it?

 

[sweeney]

i don't want to restrict them from public land technically, i just want the resident to have a crack at it first before the hoards get to romp around. Personally i think opening weekend is overrated the older I get, but it is opening weekend of bowhunting, it is more the tradition for me to go out, then actually the hunting. Like this year I went out at 6pm Saturday and was back at the lake at 6pm sunday. Not because there aren't good deer or places to hunt but because I know firsthand how the numbers have grown on public land and I get it, people fall in love with the same thing I did years ago being able to take off over a stretch of 4 miles and hunt all day if you want. I just think it would cut down on the congestion in these public areas if the state deemed resident only the first two weeks of bow season. I am pretty sure all the tags would still sell and it would give the resident gal/guy who can only maybe hunt with their kids on a holiday weekend a little less competition and maybe give the deer a little bit less stress from being stampeded through the grasslands by every wanna be Eastman NR out looking for velvet. And if you really think its about me being selfish, I would send you a picture of my bow sitting at home the first weekend every year. I personally just would rather see our ND residents get a first crack at hunting ND before it gets swarmed over by the sconis and sotans, like has been happening more and more each year.

 

[wjschmaltz]

Man, I could write a book on this topic. Sorry for not providing a direct answer, but I will point out several points to ponder. It’s such a complicated issue that I really can’t suggest one way or another in good conscious without being a hypocrite.

I obtain preference points in nearly every state west of the Mississippi that lets me and I respect that ND plays pretty fair on deer. It’s a clear-cut discussion for someone that only hunts in their home state. For people that enjoy and are blessed enough to travel around and experience new hunting areas in different states, it’s almost impossible to not be hypocritical while having this discussion. The more doors that are closed to non-residents, the more they will lobby within their own state to close similar doors. Again, I’m a hypocrite. I am pretty frustrated that I cannot hunt antelope, moose, and elk in a place where I spent the majority of my life but it sure is nice now as an AK resident to be able to hunt Dall’s, goats, and grizzlies OTC knowing that I won’t have to worry about a NR that has never experienced a thermal blowing up every other valley.

We all want to bash on NRs, but in most cases, they are the ones paying the majority of the budget for almost every state. I bought a hunting/fishing license this year for $70 and I was able to dip net 45 salmon and obtain 5 deer tags, 5 caribou tags, 2 mtn goat tags, 1 moose tag, 1 sheep tag, 3 black bear tags, and I don’t even need a tag to saw down a general season griz or 10 wolves a day. Total cost is an additional $0. At the same time, I want to lock out the guys paying $1,000 per tag. Makes me a hypocrite. No matter which state you live in, you need to pay more to play if you want to lock out and/or restrict non-residents. That is a good starting point in the original discussion. How much more are we willing to pay to further restrict non-residents? I find what people call the entitlement generation (people like myself, 31 years old) are very willing to pay more as a resident while it is the older people that often act entitled to big game tags because of the way it used to be. (not a direct jab at the original poster or anyone on here for that matter, I don’t have a clue on anyone’s age. Also, this is obviously a gross generalization, there are plenty of people that would fall in the category of older that are more than willing to pay up; and they do through donations). We all remember how much groaning happened when they raised ND resident deer tags a whooping $10!

Restricting anything is an extremely slippery slope. Especially when everyone has a different definition of non-resident. For now, a non-resident is someone that lives outside ND. As the resource and land becomes even more limited, it is likely that the definition of non-resident will change to anyone living outside of the hunting unit. If you are OK with limiting the resource and access based on the current definition, then you need to accept it in the future when they change the regulations based off future definitions.

This has already happened in large portions of AK and the fight continues every year. There are several portions of federal-owned land (yeup, owned by you and me) where you cannot hunt several species unless you live in the unit. So I am already a non-resident in my own state, thus putting even more pressure on other portions of the state. This WILL continue to happen in other states.

Sorry for another rambling post with no answers.

 

[Wags2.0]

I have often wondered if NR bowhunters realize that their otc tag isn’t applicable for mule deer... or maybe they don’t care? Claim ignorance? It seems like there was a shitload out over the two weeks I was out last fall

 

[Holmsvc]

why is bow season 4 months long? when most people cant get a rifle or muzzy tag in some units.

Doesn't really pertain to the topic