Burleigh co. Ditches debate

[scrotcaster]

I fill the back of my Ranger every spring picking up beer cans and garbage from my ditches, it's unreal that there's that many people that garbage right out the window.

In Burleigh county that (driving your ranger to pick up trash) would now be illegal if this passes lol

 

[Obi-Wan]

There's no way that fence is 33' from the centerline of that highway. A typical lane is 12 feet wide, that fence appears to be closer to the road than the width of the lane. Should be able to measure it on google maps.

Looks like he is in his rights to place the fence where it is at. either he or the previous owner must have been enough of a prick when they were improving the road because the other area's have 60' while his is 33' right of way. still does not explain as to why the county paid for improvements on his land.

 

[Obi-Wan]

You're arguing with this guy about ROW's? LOL.

Being an outspoken prick and trying to make a living working with the public usually doesn't end well for the prick.

 

[johnr]

I thought those nifty Lock Out signs the angry land owners were pinning out on their land was the solution.

 

[Tymurrey]

Looks like he is in his rights to place the fence where it is at. either he or the previous owner must have been enough of a prick when they were improving the road because the other area's have 60' while his is 33' right of way. still does not explain as to why the county paid for improvements on his land.

My guess would just be a construction easement or temporary easement/ROW situation. Some areas where i worked on building roads the county or state wouldn't buy the land but would use it as a borrow area to get the dirt to build the road and when project was completed the landowner still owned the land. Depends on how bad the landowner didn't want to sell the land or how much the county/state was willing to pay. In my mind once the road is built and as long as there is adequate clear zone and room for maintenance, why does the state or county need to pay for the right of way and then be responsible for cost of maintaining it when it really doesn't have any benefit. Some areas get wider ROW due to height of the road versus ditch bottom to maintain a 4:1 slope going down or how wide they needed to cut the hill back on the back side of the ditch.

 

[NDSportsman]

Is he letting his horses keep his lawn mowed too?

 

[Allen]

I believe what we are learning here is that road rights-of-way are complicated and inconsistent.

I do know that this topic was on the minds of many in Lincoln this past evening. Lots of distrust and open animosity on both sides. I guess some of the squeakier wheels are a related group of landowners out east of Bismarck. But at least one Lincoln resident spoke out against OHV use in the ditches, and he lives in town. Not exactly sure how to interpret that one.

My personal take on this is that a State law/rule/regulation that permits/requires a stranger to drive on your property is basically unconstitutional. According to OnX and the legal description on my deed, I own to the middle of the asphalt county road at the end of my driveway. Therefore, my understanding is that our State Constitution provides for a 33 ft road right of way on my side of the section line.

Remember, the rules state they are to drive in the lowest point of the ditch, but not trespass. The two-wheel ruts in my ditch are as much as 45 ft from the section line using Google Earth for measurements. If I chose to deny passage, there is a conflict between the State law authorizing people to use the ditch (not road shoulder, interior slope, etc) against the 4th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

I'm really torn on this one, I consider the net impact of OHV use in my ditch to be a trivial issue and just part of the overall rural living experience. But my understanding of the U.S. Constitution is at odds with the current rules. The State telling me that I must allow strangers to recreate on my property is clearly an unconstitutional take under the 4th Amendment without some form of compensation or easement.

 

[Obi-Wan]

My guess would just be a construction easement or temporary easement/ROW situation. Some areas where i worked on building roads the county or state wouldn't buy the land but would use it as a borrow area to get the dirt to build the road and when project was completed the landowner still owned the land. Depends on how bad the landowner didn't want to sell the land or how much the county/state was willing to pay. In my mind once the road is built and as long as there is adequate clear zone and room for maintenance, why does the state or county need to pay for the right of way and then be responsible for cost of maintaining it when it really doesn't have any benefit. Some areas get wider ROW due to height of the road versus ditch bottom to maintain a 4:1 slope going down or how wide they needed to cut the hill back on the back side of the ditch.

All around him there are 60' Right of way easement but his is at 33' very similar to my place where the previous owner would not give a 45' but fought to keep the 33'. the road was built and the slope is steeper than the neighbors and the width of the ditch is narrower than all those on all sides of me. The County kept all their work within the easements and the end results show that.

 

[Allen]

I find more Fireball bottles than anything when I walk my dogs…

Yep, I get plenty of them as well, but nothing like the ice cream bar wrappers. I do have a good lead on who it is though.

 

[Obi-Wan]

I believe what we are learning here is that road rights-of-way are complicated and inconsistent.

I do know that this topic was on the minds of many in Lincoln this evening. Lots of distrust and open animosity on both sides. I guess some of the squeakier wheels are a related group of landowners out east of Bismarck. But at least one Lincoln resident spoke out against OHV use in the ditches, and he lives in town. Not exactly sure how to interpret that one.

My personal take on this is that a State law/rule/regulation that permits/requires a stranger to drive on your property is basically unconstitutional. According to OnX and the legal description on my deed, I own to the middle of the asphalt county road at the end of my driveway. Therefore, my understanding is that our State Constitution provides for a 33 ft road right of way on my side of the section line.

Remember, the rules state they are to drive in the lowest point of the ditch, but not trespass. The two-wheel ruts in my ditch are as much as 45 ft from the section line using Google Earth for measurements. If I chose to deny passage, there is a conflict between the State law authorizing people to use the ditch (not road shoulder, interior slope, etc) against the 4th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

I'm really torn on this one, I consider the net impact of OHV use in my ditch to be a trivial issue and just part of the overall rural living experience. But my understanding of the U.S. Constitution is at odds with the current rules. The State telling me that I must allow strangers to recreate on my property is clearly an unconstitutional take under the 4th Amendment without some form of compensation or easement.

Do you have your " lock out signs " up ? Have you ever hunted unposted land without the landowners knowledge ?

 

[guywhofishes]

Yep, I get plenty of them as well, but nothing like the ice cream bar wrappers. I do have a good lead on who it is though.

Do they live up the driveway at the approach where the ditch wrappers suddenly end?

We find a LOT of fast food wrappers and little liquor bottles in the ditch leading up to the "rich" neighborhood - where the ditch litter suddenly ends.

I suspect spoiled rich school kids ditching contraband on their way home. Then again - could be their folks this day/age.

 

[Allen]

Do you have your " lock out signs " up ? Have you ever hunted unposted land without the landowners knowledge ?

No, and yes. Seriously, WTF?

 

[Allen]

Do they live up the driveway at the approach where the ditch wrappers suddenly end?

We find a LOT of fast food wrappers and little liquor bottles in the ditch leading up to the "rich" neighborhood - where the ditch litter suddenly ends.

I suspect spoiled rich school kids ditching contraband on their way home. Then again - could be their folks this day/age.

Not a kid.

 

[johnr]

Not a kid.

Cant believe my ice cream wrappers I have been pitching out the window here in Gods country are making it all the way over to Lincoln area... Mother Nature is awesome

 

[Obi-Wan]

I believe what we are learning here is that road rights-of-way are complicated and inconsistent.

I do know that this topic was on the minds of many in Lincoln this past evening. Lots of distrust and open animosity on both sides. I guess some of the squeakier wheels are a related group of landowners out east of Bismarck. But at least one Lincoln resident spoke out against OHV use in the ditches, and he lives in town. Not exactly sure how to interpret that one.

My personal take on this is that a State law/rule/regulation that permits/requires a stranger to drive on your property is basically unconstitutional. According to OnX and the legal description on my deed, I own to the middle of the asphalt county road at the end of my driveway. Therefore, my understanding is that our State Constitution provides for a 33 ft road right of way on my side of the section line.

Remember, the rules state they are to drive in the lowest point of the ditch, but not trespass. The two-wheel ruts in my ditch are as much as 45 ft from the section line using Google Earth for measurements. If I chose to deny passage, there is a conflict between the State law authorizing people to use the ditch (not road shoulder, interior slope, etc) against the 4th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

I'm really torn on this one, I consider the net impact of OHV use in my ditch to be a trivial issue and just part of the overall rural living experience. But my understanding of the U.S. Constitution is at odds with the current rules. The State telling me that I must allow strangers to recreate on my property is clearly an unconstitutional take under the 4th Amendment without some form of compensation or easement.

What is the right of way on your road ? 33'? 45'? 75'? other' ? https://www.burleigh.gov/maps/parcel-viewer/ click on map layers / road related layers / road easements-right of way

 

[Allen]

It is more than I thought it was.

Nifty website, thanks for sharing it.

 

[Tymurrey]

I don't feel a ban is the correct course of action. I live along highway 83, the state bought that right of way, the 1/4 of land there is 140 acres approximately due to the land being bought for right of way. The state also makes money off of the taxes and licensing of the OHV's. Land along other county roadways, i pay taxes to the center of the road, own to the middle of the road but have the 33' section line rule. I know this isn't the case for all county roads. Either way the county makes no money off the OHV registration or taxes. Where should the money come from to repair and maintain damage caused by OHV's in these situations. The county or township doesn't have time or funding to maintain and clear the ditches the way it is, what happens with safety concerns, unmarked culverts and washouts with the county roads.

 

[jdfisherman]

I don't feel a ban is the correct course of action. I live along highway 83, the state bought that right of way, the 1/4 of land there is 140 acres approximately due to the land being bought for right of way. The state also makes money off of the taxes and licensing of the OHV's. Land along other county roadways, i pay taxes to the center of the road, own to the middle of the road but have the 33' section line rule. I know this isn't the case for all county roads. Either way the county makes no money off the OHV registration or taxes. Where should the money come from to repair and maintain damage caused by OHV's in these situations. The county or township doesn't have time or funding to maintain and clear the ditches the way it is, what happens with safety concerns, unmarked culverts and washouts with the county roads.

You don't pay taxes to the center of the road - road and other easements are exempt from taxes (or should be) because you don't have free and clear use of that portion of what you own.

 

[guywhofishes]

Solution: Everyone who ditch rides needs to have an ID# on a large flag on a fiberglass pole.

If that became law, those that are concerned about trespassers can readily ID the offender and call it in.

Game cameras are cheap and easy - so it'd be easy for landowners to gather proof of some asshats trespassing.