Polluting ND

Eatsleeptrap

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Wants versus needs. If statewide unemployment was high, we would need more jobs. It is not and we do not. Fuckers want these corporations to build here because they want all the extra tax money so they can buy or build big shiny things we do not need, like a presidential library for a guy who has been dirt for over a hundred years. It is all about people addicted to spending other peoples money.
 


NDbowman

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Why can't we build a NG pipeline to MN where the ore is being mined and have the smelting done right there..........oh yeah nevermind....... pipelines bad 🙄
That is exactly what I thought when I first heard of this. Apparently MN wants to export its pollution to us though. They claim this will be good for the environment as ND has the natural gas to smelt this stuff and then we can pump the C02 back into the ground. I'm like what about all the pollution and C02 to transport this stuff here and then haul it out after its refined? Its all about MN and their regulations about C02 and stuff. Apparently our leadership here in ND could care less about pollution and just cares about the $$$.
 

Traxion

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If you think this can be bonded and cost covered in 50 years, you need to go look up the list of federal superfund sites. Then do a search of abandoned oil and gas wells, particularly outside of ND. All of these messes were started with big talk of jobs and low impact. Some even had big money tied up to cover costs. And they all now cost us huge sums of money to cleanup and to try to reduce (never eliminate) ongoing pollution.

We have to wake up in our rural states. These big economic drivers like data centers and things like this plant are here because we’re dumb enough to get steamrolled. And our states are craving development without much for guardrails. They’re here to dump a shithole in you back yard or use up all the excess power we have. I understand these plants have to go somewhere and NIMBY can seriously alter progress that is needed. But we don’t need pig iron here and we don’t need a bunch of data centers either. Employment is still robust. Growth comes with costs no matter what but this one in particular stinks.
 
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wslayer

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Meh.. we have Armatrong comapany to clean it up..
Should have had them in Mandan 30 yrs ago to clean up the diesel contamination then. How many yrs did that take ?
 


gonefshn

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You gotta love the irony of this. When blue states make tough regs we all bitch about them and call them names. Then when those same companies decide to come here it’s……. Whoa… wait a minute…. This is my backyard.
 

Slappy

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I share the environmental concerns and despise MN policy that negatively impacts ND and our own officials that enable it.

However, it is critical we make more of the things we need in this country. Steel is in our pickups and the infrastructure that fuels them and our boats, boat trailers, boat docks, rebar in concrete boat ramps, bridges that get us to the ramp, and everything else that keeps us fed and comfortable.
 

Fester

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Should have had them in Mandan 30 yrs ago to clean up the diesel contamination then. How many yrs did that take ?
Long time..isnt it still going? Cost mandan alot of money from my understanding...pretty sure the cost was due to some great decision makers they had no?
 

Fester

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You gotta love the irony of this. When blue states make tough regs we all bitch about them and call them names. Then when those same companies decide to come here it’s……. Whoa… wait a minute…. This is my backyard.
Yup 100% this is called RINO....or liberal..or democrat. I only stand up for business ...when... well....it only will benefit me.
 


Allen

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You gotta love the irony of this. When blue states make tough regs we all bitch about them and call them names. Then when those same companies decide to come here it’s……. Whoa… wait a minute…. This is my backyard.

Having a pretty fair amount of experience with both ND and MN regulatory agencies over the years, it's fair to say that we are at the far opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to environmental laws, regulations, historical tendencies, and philosophical leanings. There's nothing wrong with recognizing this fact of life and the implications, or reasonably expected side effects of a project like this.
 

wslayer

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Long time..isnt it still going? Cost mandan alot of money from my understanding...pretty sure the cost was due to some great decision makers they had no?
And you don't see the afterbirth of this cleanup taking similar or more time ? This would be more widespread yet.
Love jobs but not a fan of it this way. There is a reason its getting shoved to the non populous state. If it was such a win win, why not the middle of the US for easier distribution of final product ? Just a thought... OUT !
 

Fester

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And you don't see the afterbirth of this cleanup taking similar or more time ? This would be more widespread yet.
Love jobs but not a fan of it this way. There is a reason its getting shoved to the non populous state. If it was such a win win, why not the middle of the US for easier distribution of final product ? Just a thought... OUT !
Like i have said many time previous posts..nope...get smarter people to set things up and address before implimenting.
 

Fester

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If people are against this why do we have even one single windmill in our state? The aftermath of them is dam bad..
 

Narcs

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If you think this can be bonded and cost covered in 50 years, you need to go look up the list of federal superfund sites. Then do a search of abandoned oil and gas wells, particularly outside of ND. All of these messes were started with big talk of jobs and low impact. Some even had big money tied up to cover costs. And they all now cost us huge sums of money to cleanup and to try to reduce (never eliminate) ongoing pollution.

We have to wake up in our rural states. These big economic drivers like data centers and things like this plant are here because we’re dumb enough to get steamrolled. And our states are craving development without much for guardrails. They’re here to dump a shithole in you back yard or use up all the excess power we have. I understand these plants have to go somewhere and NIMBY can seriously alter progress that is needed. But we don’t need pig iron here and we don’t need a bunch of data centers either. Employment is still robust. Growth comes with costs no matter what but this one in particular stinks.
^^^^^. THIS!!!! ^^^^^^
 


Fester

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A smelting company can make what $2 bil a year lets say. Average super fund sight is aroumd $300 million for a clean up lets say?....like i said it can be done if done correctly..not always the sky is falling...or I only like it if it works for me. By the way i would benefit exactly zero from this project. I am however pro business if done correctly.
 

SDMF

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Instead of brining in the ore by rail, maybe they could dig a Canal from Duluth to Minot paralleling Highway 2. Make it big enough for oil and CNG tankers while you're at it, perhaps the odd barge full of coal.
 

Allen

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A smelting company can make what $2 bil a year lets say. Average super fund sight is aroumd $300 million for a clean up lets say?....like i said it can be done if done correctly..not always the sky is falling...or I only like it if it works for me. By the way i would benefit exactly zero from this project. I am however pro business if done correctly.

I don't think anyone here is saying it can't be done in a way to minimize our exposure to a very large cleanup bill in the future, we're just saying that history would suggest our elected officials don't care about the long-term because they are going to be out of office by then. There's a pretty solid track record to work with here. One doesn't need to look back any farther than the Bakken Boom. Let's issue an unlimited number of drilling permits, overwhelm western ND's infrastructure with truck drivers who couldn't stay employed in their own states, and in general just toss a monkey wrench into everything people loved about western ND. I can't even begin to count the number of native North Dakotans I've met/known who fled their homes out in the Bakken because of the circus it became.

Quick example of what I'm talking about. Back in 2012, I was selling a home up north of Bismarck as I was moving to my current home. I literally hit enter on the BisManOnline ad, packaged up a phone going in for warranty work, and met the first couple interested in looking at the house as I walked to the mailbox. That couple was from Golden Valley county, mid to late 50s and here is what the wife told me about why she was moving to Bismarck. She and her husband were both originally from western ND, owned a farm/ranch operation for years out there, raised their kids who were now on their own (at least one in the Bismarck area). Anyway, their shithead neighbor installed a man camp right across the road from their rural driveway as the Bakken was going nuts. One time too many as the husband was out in the field, she walked out into her frontyard only to find some random methheads sitting in her driveway and she just didn't feel safe out there with her husband out in the field every day. So, she eventually just came to the conclusion that she was moving to Bismarck to escape the shithole man camp next to her house (and to be near her daughter as a bonus). That couple ended up passing on our home, only because the lot wasn't setup well for building an external shop. Ended up selling the place to the couple that showed up a half hour later.

Bottom line, this was a person who had no intention of fleeing her longtime home, but because the state very poorly managed the economic boom of the Bakken, she no longer felt safe in rural Golden Valley county. Being originally from western ND myself, I have for years now been amazed at the number of life-long ND residents moving away from the place they expected to grow old and die in, all because some people placed "jobs" and economic development above the health and well-being of its current citizens.

All ND had to do to prevent the above crapping on its residents was have a little restraint on the number of drilling permits issued. And they refused to do it, all because they wanted the jobs/economic development. They could have drug the good years of the Bakken out for another decade or two, which would have provided great career-long employment opportunities for ND residents, instead they sold us out. This is why so many of us look at opportunities like this with a healthy dose of skepticism.
 

Fritz the Cat

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All these same arguments were heard when Jimmy Carter announced the Dakota Gasification Plans 1978. The communities of Hazen and Beulah experienced growth pains and what if's. Senior classes had 45 students. Some people just wanted their little, small-town way of life.

During that same time, Mott ND senior class was 75 students. According to the last census, there only 738 people left in Mott.
 


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