Polluting ND

[Davy Crockett]

if we want to bring manufacturing back to the US, we need to produce raw materials, seems like a good use of the excess NG we currently have IMO, good for the economy and national security.

I get that but why is it that it's almost always an out of state company or LLC. that wants to come to ND for business start up ? I'd rather see ND profit from a ND based business stay in ND. It's like we host this stuff instead of creating it.

 

[guywhofishes]

Why can't we build a NG pipeline to MN where the ore is being mined and have the smelting done right there..........oh yeah nevermind....... pipelines bad

No, because MN has stringent pollution laws.

The process produces many nasties and the mess they create are expensive, if not impractical, to remediate. In other words, let ND deal with the mess that gets left when the company folds.

I get where Lyc is coming from too, but there should be a balance. If I know ND lawmakers and regulators, there won't be.

 

[Allen]

If its set up correctly i dont get why it would be a big issue? Set up an account for clranup if the business were to ever close or go bankrupt before allowing it to function. As fsr ad jobs go..never heard the argument of dont you have enough jobs? The more job options out there the better in my opinion.

1. I doubt the ability of the company to put in place a bond large enough to clean this place up in 20-50 years, they just don't have that much cash. There will most likely be a token bond for cleanup, but it will at most be 10-20% of the actual cost, which means the taxpayers will inherit the bill at some point in time.

2. As far as jobs go. A person should only need one, ND already has very low unemployment compared to the rest of the country. That means we will need to import more people from shitholes that don't like the way things are in ND. In essence, we will be diluting what most of us like about ND the most.


It SHOULD be cheaper to lay a natural gas pipeline from ND to Minnesota (where the ore comes from), but when they consider the regulatory cost Minnesota would extract, it all of a sudden becomes cheaper to rail ship the ore to ND for processing. There probably shouldn't be such a huge disparity in the regulatory environment. If I had to guess, I'd say Minnesota's is out of control, and North Dakota's is lacking control.

 

[Fester]

so the reason people dont want it is because myabe 50 years from now it may go bankrupt and we are stuck with the bill and it smells? So does the dump..we dont ship it to MN to deal with. Both problems seem fairly easy to resolve if done correctly..problem is that later i feel...

 

[guywhofishes]

see Allen's #2

then read Allen's #2 again

 

[Fester]

see Allen's #2

then read Allen's #2 again

Unemployment only considers actively seaking people..also...sure its low but doesnt mean a person cant move up the food chain to a better job with better pay..why limit that person? 2 types of people in this world..pessimist and optimistic person...i would love to know if there is a study on who has a higher networth between the two.

 

[Davy Crockett]

If net worth is an issue theres always the bakken oilfield that likely pays more starting out than this place ever will , even at the top of the ladder . For some people, lifestyle has nothing to do about money.
That and the regulation issues , We got left with the Bakken clean up just like our grandkids will get left with this cleanup because I don't believe our state has any spine when it comes to environmental issues. Too much "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" going on.
Just my opinion.

 

[Fester]

There is always a solution to a problem. I for one will never try and hold a person back from bettering themselves with a better job/lifystyle because of what may or may not happen 50 years from now. If its a concern it can be brought up with the powers at be to get addressed before its put in place. I see more job options as a plus all the way around. Just adress the concerns the public may have and fix it before implimentation. All concerns should be addresssed with resolution before implimenting it including the cleanup in the future.

 

[guywhofishes]

I can’t fathom being one of the poor souls downwind of that witch’s cauldron day after day. Blech!!! A bunch of people are going to loathe that place and rue the day it was built.

Downwind property will be shiite for home building, but it will probably make good AI center ground.

But jobs, so all is good.

 

[Fester]

People live downwind of the dumps.....

 

[Davy Crockett]

People live downwind of the dumps.....

You want to turn ND into a shithole for a few jobs ?










When downwind from iron smelting,
areas can experience serious environmental and health impacts due to a plume of air pollution. The emissions from a smelter often contain heavy metals and harmful gases that can travel for miles, contaminating soil, water, and air.




Heavy metal contamination
Particulate matter and dust containing heavy metals are released during smelting and carried downwind by air currents, where they settle into the environment.

• Contaminants: The primary toxic metals include lead (Pb), zinc (Zn), iron (Fe), copper (Cu), arsenic (As), and cadmium (Cd).
• Soil and water pollution: These heavy metals accumulate in the surface soil and can leach into groundwater and nearby waterways, threatening aquatic life and contaminating drinking water supplies.
• Food chain contamination: Downwind farming and grazing lands can become contaminated, leading to the intake of pollutants by crops and animals and the potential for human consumption.
• Long-term persistence: The heavy metal contamination of soil can persist for decades, and even after a smelter closes, re-emission from the landscape can continue to be a source of pollution.

Acid rain
Iron smelting releases large quantities of sulfur dioxide (

SO2cap S cap O sub 2
) and nitrogen oxides (

NOxcap N cap O sub x
), which react with atmospheric water vapor to form sulfuric acid.

• Precipitation and deposition: These acidic components eventually fall as acid rain, mist, or dry particles.
• Environmental damage: Acid rain can acidify soil and water, harming forests, crops, and aquatic ecosystems.
• Soil impacts: The increased acidity of soil can also mobilize other toxic elements like aluminum, making them more available for uptake by plants.

Direct health risks for communities
Inhalation and ingestion are the main pathways for human exposure to smelter pollutants. This can lead to a range of health issues, especially in people living in residential areas near a smelter.

• Inhalation exposure: The inhalation of fine particulate matter (
  
  
  
  PM2.5cap P cap M sub 2.5
  ) and volatile organic compounds (VOCs) exacerbates respiratory conditions, including asthma and chronic bronchitis, and is linked to cardiovascular problems.
• Heavy metal poisoning: Chronic exposure to heavy metals like lead and cadmium can cause significant long-term health problems, including damage to the nervous system, reproductive system, and kidneys. Children are especially vulnerable to the effects of lead poisoning.
• Increased cancer risk: Studies have found a correlation between living in proximity to smelters and an increased risk of dying from certain types of cancer, especially lung and digestive tract cancers.

 

[Fester]

You want to turn ND into a shithole for a few jobs ?










When downwind from iron smelting,
areas can experience serious environmental and health impacts due to a plume of air pollution. The emissions from a smelter often contain heavy metals and harmful gases that can travel for miles, contaminating soil, water, and air.




Heavy metal contamination
Particulate matter and dust containing heavy metals are released during smelting and carried downwind by air currents, where they settle into the environment.

• Contaminants: The primary toxic metals include lead (Pb), zinc (Zn), iron (Fe), copper (Cu), arsenic (As), and cadmium (Cd).
• Soil and water pollution: These heavy metals accumulate in the surface soil and can leach into groundwater and nearby waterways, threatening aquatic life and contaminating drinking water supplies.
• Food chain contamination: Downwind farming and grazing lands can become contaminated, leading to the intake of pollutants by crops and animals and the potential for human consumption.
• Long-term persistence: The heavy metal contamination of soil can persist for decades, and even after a smelter closes, re-emission from the landscape can continue to be a source of pollution.

Acid rain
Iron smelting releases large quantities of sulfur dioxide (

SO2cap S cap O sub 2
) and nitrogen oxides (

NOxcap N cap O sub x
), which react with atmospheric water vapor to form sulfuric acid.

• Precipitation and deposition: These acidic components eventually fall as acid rain, mist, or dry particles.
• Environmental damage: Acid rain can acidify soil and water, harming forests, crops, and aquatic ecosystems.
• Soil impacts: The increased acidity of soil can also mobilize other toxic elements like aluminum, making them more available for uptake by plants.

Direct health risks for communities
Inhalation and ingestion are the main pathways for human exposure to smelter pollutants. This can lead to a range of health issues, especially in people living in residential areas near a smelter.

• Inhalation exposure: The inhalation of fine particulate matter (
  
  
  
  PM2.5cap P cap M sub 2.5
  ) and volatile organic compounds (VOCs) exacerbates respiratory conditions, including asthma and chronic bronchitis, and is linked to cardiovascular problems.
• Heavy metal poisoning: Chronic exposure to heavy metals like lead and cadmium can cause significant long-term health problems, including damage to the nervous system, reproductive system, and kidneys. Children are especially vulnerable to the effects of lead poisoning.
• Increased cancer risk: Studies have found a correlation between living in proximity to smelters and an increased risk of dying from certain types of cancer, especially lung and digestive tract cancers.

Well jeez we should just get rid of power plants..peeker plants...oil jobs, garbage/landfills with that mentality. There are scrubbers and tech to control the issues. So to answer your question.. yes absolutly if it helps people better themselves and issues can be resolved prior to building. I dont want to insult you but if people were always against every type of industry where it wasnt rainbows and flowers and unicorns.....we would be nowhere..so again to answer your question..yup..resolve the issues and create jobs...build away.

 

[Davy Crockett]

Were you born and raised in ND ? Refer to post 16.

 

[Fester]

Were you born and raised in ND ? Refer to post 16.

Sure was...and yes i have been. The one i was near didnt smell any worse then west fargo. Were you born amd raised in Nd, have you been near one?

 

[Davy Crockett]

I stand firm on protecting ND for the future generations , nothing against job creation but at some point you have to draw the line in the sand for environmental and economical feasibility. This doesn't pass the smell test.

 

[Fester]

I stand firm on protecting ND for the future generations , nothing against job creation but at some point you have to draw the line in the sand for environmental and economical feasibility. This doesn't pass the smell test.

Good job answering the question....

 

[Davy Crockett]

Born here and typing from the same ground that I grew up on . yes, I traveled out of state for better money for a 5 year hitch. See post #3 I looked at google earth and see they finally did get the mess cleaned up down there.

 

[Fester]

Born here and typing from the same ground that I grew up on . yes, I traveled out of state for better money for a 5 year hitch. See post #3 I looked at google earth and see they finally did get the mess cleaned up down there.

So more then likely a farmer?

 

[Davy Crockett]

Nope

 

[Fester]

Nope

Interesting.....