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<blockquote data-quote="espringers" data-source="post: 343496" data-attributes="member: 816"><p>i am gonna start w/ roe v. wade... </p><p></p><p>i've never been comfortable with that decision from a legal standpoint. seems the supreme court majority had a result in mind "for the good of society" and reasoned their way to said result. they do it quite often to be honest. there are all kinds of things we can't do with our own bodies. some of those things harm absolutely nobody. they are still illegal. and they certainly aren't protected by the constitution. so, how the fuck they made abortion a constitutionally protected activity is beyond me. in that respect, i have to agree with what little i have heard about this "draft". </p><p></p><p>generally speaking, i am against abortion. however, i disagree that an "embryo" is necessarily a "life" deserving of legal protection. think embryonic in the terms of infertility treatments or possibly embryonic selection for a couple that are genetic dynamite. you take sperm and you fertilize an egg... often times outside the uterus. you culture that fertilized egg in a dish. at 3 days, a well graded embryo is only 8 cells. then you freeze em. often times freeze many of them. to be used in IVF. folks use IVF for a variety of reasons. are those frozen globs of cells in a dish in a freezer worthy of the same protections as a fetus with a heart beat? my opinion? no. some scoff at "playing god" in this way. but, i am not so sure god would judge two loving parents who desperately want a baby and are going to do their best to give him/her a great life in this shit hole of a world vary harshly. </p><p></p><p>i am also "ok" with it in certain extreme circumstances. here is one example on the extreme end of things and it was on TV last night. mom is carrying a baby. first ultrasound. call it 12 weeks? reveals little to no brain matter, hole in the skull and a massive hole in the heart. this fetus has zero chance of survival outside the womb. likely not making it to term. if so, likely still born. but, to make it worse, the exposed brain matter is making her amnio fluid septic and her life is in a lot of danger. this one doesn't require a lot of thought for me. i would never be able to look mom in the eyes and tell her... "god's will. good luck with this one." </p><p></p><p>where do you draw the line on what is "extreme" circumstances? how do you define mom's life being "in danger"? so, many areas on this that aren't black and white for me. so, its hard for me to draw a black and white line and this gets a bit philosophical. i definitely have a line in the sand though as do many. so, no need to get into that. not productive.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="espringers, post: 343496, member: 816"] i am gonna start w/ roe v. wade... i've never been comfortable with that decision from a legal standpoint. seems the supreme court majority had a result in mind "for the good of society" and reasoned their way to said result. they do it quite often to be honest. there are all kinds of things we can't do with our own bodies. some of those things harm absolutely nobody. they are still illegal. and they certainly aren't protected by the constitution. so, how the fuck they made abortion a constitutionally protected activity is beyond me. in that respect, i have to agree with what little i have heard about this "draft". generally speaking, i am against abortion. however, i disagree that an "embryo" is necessarily a "life" deserving of legal protection. think embryonic in the terms of infertility treatments or possibly embryonic selection for a couple that are genetic dynamite. you take sperm and you fertilize an egg... often times outside the uterus. you culture that fertilized egg in a dish. at 3 days, a well graded embryo is only 8 cells. then you freeze em. often times freeze many of them. to be used in IVF. folks use IVF for a variety of reasons. are those frozen globs of cells in a dish in a freezer worthy of the same protections as a fetus with a heart beat? my opinion? no. some scoff at "playing god" in this way. but, i am not so sure god would judge two loving parents who desperately want a baby and are going to do their best to give him/her a great life in this shit hole of a world vary harshly. i am also "ok" with it in certain extreme circumstances. here is one example on the extreme end of things and it was on TV last night. mom is carrying a baby. first ultrasound. call it 12 weeks? reveals little to no brain matter, hole in the skull and a massive hole in the heart. this fetus has zero chance of survival outside the womb. likely not making it to term. if so, likely still born. but, to make it worse, the exposed brain matter is making her amnio fluid septic and her life is in a lot of danger. this one doesn't require a lot of thought for me. i would never be able to look mom in the eyes and tell her... "god's will. good luck with this one." where do you draw the line on what is "extreme" circumstances? how do you define mom's life being "in danger"? so, many areas on this that aren't black and white for me. so, its hard for me to draw a black and white line and this gets a bit philosophical. i definitely have a line in the sand though as do many. so, no need to get into that. not productive. [/QUOTE]
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