AR or Bolt Action

[jtillman]

Need some advice, hoping a few of you have been in this situation and can provide me with some input and feedback.

I have three girls, ages 13, 10 & 8. All three of them have shot rifles (22's), and enjoy shooting, as well as have a desire to hunt. The oldest has hunted deer and birds with me for the past couple of years, and specifically for deer hunting, had her shooting an AR chambered in 6.8 SPC (borrowed from a friend). It has worked out tremendously with the sliding stock and soft shooting AR for fitment and confident shooting. Before shooting the AR, I had her shoot a bolt action .243 in a youth size, and it was too short for her, and full size is just too big / awkward....so the AR fit really well for her and she loves it.

So here's the rub, before having the oldest hunting, I wasn't a huge AR guy (especially for hunting)....but after seeing how well it worked for my oldest, my opinion has definitely been swayed. I had planned on purchasing all 3 kids the same rifle, so when they are ready for deer hunting they have a rifle that they have shot for a few years and are confident with it....as well as I won't be showing any favoritism if all three have the exact same setup.

The traditionalist in me says a soft shooting Bolt Action (.243, 6.5, 7mm-08, etc.)....but after watching my oldest use the AR so effectively, I'm starting to lean to the AR. So looking for your thoughts....like I said, hoping some of you have been through this before.

 

[guywhofishes]

I agree that the AR seems better bio-engineered for shooting - that pistol grip adds a dimension of control lacking on bolts

that said - the stigma/appearance is real too

thanks Obama

 

[Kickemup]

The weight alone would keep me from having my kids shooting a ar for deer. I won a ruger american compact last year in a 7-08. It is light just under 7lbs with scope and very little recoil. My 10 year old shot a deer with it and it fit him well. My wife used it for her deer and I did also.

 

[wby257]

The weight alone would keep me from having my kids shooting a ar for deer. I won a ruger american compact last year in a 7-08. It is light just under 7lbs with scope and very little recoil. My 10 year old shot a deer with it and it fit him well. My wife used it for her deer and I did also.

If a person wants to build a AR no matter the caliber they can be built pretty light. I have a 223 and a 6.5 Grendal with scope and mts with 5 rd mag less than 7 lbs. And the AR will have less recoil than the 7-08.

 

[Kickemup]

If a person wants to build a AR no matter the caliber they can be built pretty light. I have a 223 and a 6.5 Grendal with scope and mts with 5 rd mag less than 7 lbs. And the AR will have less recoil than the 7-08.

I've never realized they could be that light both of the ones I have are tanks but I didn't build mine. Might be time to get into man legos. If thats the case have fun deciding u have no more input on this.

 

[jtillman]

I've never realized they could be that light both of the ones I have are tanks but I didn't build mine. Might be time to get into man legos. If thats the case have fun deciding u have no more input on this.

That was my impression as well (heavy AR's), but the 6.8 SPC that we used didn't seem any / much heavier than the .243 Youth that we tried out. I have since purchased an AR for myself, and it weights 6.8lbs without a scope.

If I go the AR route, I'd be getting them all a .223 for practice and then a 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel for hunting (probably the 6.5 Grendel).

 

[Sum1]

Every person I know that bought an AR for hunting went back to a bolt gun. Heavy and awkward

 

[wby257]

I have a Faxon Pencil barrel in a 223 and the barrel is only 1.2 lbs. Its a 16" mid length gas tube. and my 6.5 Grendal is a 20" mid length and is 1.92 lbs. The lowers are Polymer and weigh about 8 oz stripped.

The AR's are like any other rifle the more you put on them the heavier they get.

And they both shoot real good.

 

[PrairieGhost]

I don't think you can go wrong with an AR, but keep in mind there are now a few bolt guns with AR style stocks and grips. I often dream about a light AR in 6.5 Grendel.

 

[dgully]

I personally don't like AR for some kids if they haven't been properly trained, its easy to get excited and accidently pull the trigger again, forgetting that the next round is loaded and ready.. Just my opinion

 

[wby257]

I personally don't like AR for some kids if they haven't been properly trained, its easy to get excited and accidently pull the trigger again, forgetting that the next round is loaded and ready.. Just my opinion

Training them safely and practice our the key factor with any gun. If you start a young shooter on a Ruger 10/22 it's the samething.

 

[db-2]

my AR was worthless in nam and my opinion is still the same (but I have been told by one guy he has shot his deer in the head with his 223 AR at 700 yards).
Got kids 7-08 in youth both Remington and Winchester. Later a model 700 in 7MM
Son did buy a AR 223 later on and I asked him what for. He said not to hunt deer with Dad (but someday I would like to shoot a deer with my Model 92 in 25-20 like Jordan did and the same size as his) .

But I am old school and agree with guywhofishes about the stigma of carrying that rifle. DB

 

[SupressYourself]

I like the AR option myself. It's a lot more flexible. To switch to 6.5 Grendel, you'd only need an upper. -- Technically, you'd only need a barrel, but that takes a little longer to swap out and requires some special tools.
You could run:
-223 upper for plinking and varmints.
-6.5 Grendel for deer hunting.
-224 Valkyrie for long(ish) range shooting.
All on the same lower.

One AR tip I'll give to anyone is get an ambidextrous safety with 45 degree throw. It's surprising how much that improves the ergonomics of an AR.
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif]https://www.opticsplanet.com/armaspec-st45-45-short-throw-ambi-safety-selector.html [/FONT]

 

[wby257]

The last 3 AR's I built were with the side charging handle. I dont think I will build another rear charging unless someone would rather have the rear charging. No more reaching under the scope.

 

[Iceman]

What’s the average price to build say 22-250 from start to finish

 

[wby257]

You can't build a 22-250 on a AR-15 platform. You can on a AR-10.

You can build a WSSM on the AR-15 platform.

 

[KDM]

Bolt action for deer. AR for fun. Several reasons for this and JMO.

1. The safety factor of a positive lock mechanism with a bolt and lever over a sliding bolt operated by gas.
2. Shooting at a deer, or any critter for that matter, should be taught to be a one shot deal. Also, the safety factor of not having a live round in the chamber ready to go with an excited youngster on the trigger is a plus in my book.
3. Cleaning an AR SUCKS vs. cleaning a bolt action rifle.
4. Accuracy past 300 yards is much better (on average) with a bolt action vs. an AR. If it wasn't, snipers and long range shooters would shoot AR's as much as bolt actions, but that's not the case.
5. I'm not a fan of the side lever safety mechanism on an AR. Carried one for years and the thing was always catching on web gear, branches, and other crap moving it to interesting positions and I had to constantly be checking it. Top slide/lever or button safeties, to me, are much better overall.

 

[wby257]

Its all personal choice. To me the safety factor is there with all kids, But the AR is no more unsafe as a Ruger 10/22 or Remingtom 1100 or any auto loading guns. I know my children better than anyone, the same as everyone else knowing there children. We all know what are children are capable of. With the right amount of training and coaching every gun is safe.

When N.D.first came out with the hunter ed I was in the first class ever offered. I didnt need it, but was a good thing. For many yrs there was never a major gun incident with someone that had taken a class. I don't know if thats still true, but for many yrs it was. My guess they have or will be introducing them ( AR ) in the hunter ed class or maybe it should be called gun safety class.

As for the safety there are now cross bolt safety a person can put in the AR and take away the side lever. The manufactures are doing so many things with a AR to make them more ergonomically friendly that is one reason they are the best selling guns on the market.

 

[SDMF]

Fit is 1st and foremost. We've all seen a newer shooter pick up a rifle that's too long, lay their head over the stock almost on the heel, and have the upper part of their body leaning back behind their hips. The rifle has a BIG head start and the shooter has 3 options, absorb it all with their shoulder, drop the rifle, or fall over. Some of that is a rifle that's obviously too long for them. A rifle that's too heavy will cause the same thing as the new shooter leans back to counter the rifle's weight.

A rifle that's sized properly both for length of pull and balanced properly that the new shooter doesn't have to lean back to counterweight the rifle is going to promote proper form and better shooting. The new shooter will have an easier time getting into and staying in the scope's "eye box" where they're much more likely to maintain a full view through the scope. When the new shooter ISN'T searching for a full view through the scope, they can concentrate much more on getting the crosshairs on target and keeping them there.

I'd have no problem at all only loading 1 round into an AR and having a couple more magazines on MY person should more shots be needed. It's no different than putting a plug into a shotgun that doesn't allow for more than 1 shot whether it's a pump or semi-auto. In fact, an AR magazine is easy enough to pull apart and either put in a single-shot follower or block the magazine ensuring capacity remains at "1".

Get the fit proper, then protect their ears well, really well.

It's no secret I'm a HUGE fan of 223's, mostly because they're cheap enough to shoot and low enough recoil and muzzle-blast to allow for LOTS of shooting. More shooting is better than less shooting. If nothing else, with 3 kids, a "training" 223 of some sort would make sense. Something inexpensive they can shoot a bunch but that doesn't belong to any of them. Then get them individually whatever you feel like they'd be comfortable "graduating" to when they get a deer tag. 243, 6mm, one of the CreedMoors, 260, 7-08 308, 25-06, blah, blah, blah.

 

[Lycanthrope]