Fisherman dies of apparent carbon monoxide poisoning

[johnr]

Is CO heavier than oxygen, or is it lighter?
My question is should a sensor be placed high in the shelter or low, also would a vent be better on top, or the bottom for letting in a bit of fresh air?
My buddy built a fish house, pretty nice one. He has a sensor in it, however its high up on the wall, and the vented furnace keeps the upper half of the house toasty, and the lower (waist and below area) rather cool. I was wondering if the fumes would be the same way?

 

[guywhofishes]

Is CO2 heavier than oxygen, or is it lighter?
My question is should a sensor be placed high in the shelter or low, also would a vent be better on top, or the bottom for letting in a bit of fresh air?
My buddy built a fish house, pretty nice one. He has a sensor in it, however its high up on the wall, and the vented furnace keeps the upper half of the house toasty, and the lower (waist and below area) rather cool. I was wondering if the fumes would be the same way?

I can't imagine shelter air is quiescent enough to stratify due to a contaminant's density

typically you would want to mount a toxin sensor where you breath (head height)

but since the colder air in a shelter is almost certainly "fresher" I would say mounting in the ceiling would give you earliest warning that CO is building

 

[Account Deleted]

Co2 will be heavier. Not sure on CO.
Guy?

 

[Captain Ahab]

It is heavier Juan. I have my CO sensor alarm by the floor in my Permanent.

 

[Account Deleted]

Beat me to it.

 

[deleted_account]

yes its heavier and will settle but gases tend to be in a constant state of motion/mixing about. Id say to put the C0 detector closer to the floor tho

 

[guywhofishes]

J Emerg Med. 2012 Apr;42(4):478-82. doi: 10.1016/j.jemermed.2011.03.015. Epub 2011 May 4.
[h=1]Should the placement of carbon monoxide (CO) detectors be influenced by CO's weight relative to air?[/h]Hampson NB[SUP]1[/SUP], Courtney TG, Holm JR.
[h=3]Author information[/h]
[h=3]Abstract[/h][h=4]BACKGROUND:[/h]Numerous states and localities have recently passed legislation mandating the installation and use of residential carbon monoxide (CO) detectors/alarms. Interestingly, there seems to be confusion about the optimal placement, if any, of CO alarms inside the home.
[h=4]OBJECTIVES:[/h]It was the goal of this study to demonstrate the behavior of CO in air and to help provide a data-based recommendation for CO alarm placement.
[h=4]METHODS:[/h]CO was calculated to be slightly lighter than air. An 8-foot-tall airtight Plexiglas chamber was constructed and CO monitors placed within at the top, middle, and bottom. CO test gas (15 L, 3000 parts per million) was infused at each of the three heights in different trials and CO levels measured over time.
[h=4]RESULTS:[/h]Contrary to a significant amount of public opinion, CO did not layer on the floor, float at the middle of the chamber, or rise to the top. In each case, the levels of CO equalized throughout the test chamber. It took longer to equalize when CO was infused at the top of the chamber than the bottom, but levels always became identical with time.
[h=4]CONCLUSIONS:[/h]As would have been predicted by the Second Law of Thermodynamics, CO infused anywhere within the chamber diffused until it was of equal concentration throughout. Mixing would be even faster in the home environment, with drafts due to motion or temperature. It would be reasonable to place a residential CO alarm at any height within the room.

 

[Captain Ahab]

It is heavier Juan. I have my CO sensor alarm by the floor in my Permanent.

I just googled it and one site claims that it is lighter and it is a myth to place them near the floor. Weird.

 

[deleted_account]

The more you know...

 

[Captain Ahab]

Guy beat me to that.

 

[guywhofishes]

Unless you have an uber sealed shelter your purest air comes from the outside.

It is cold outside so the air will be cold.

Coldest (cleanest) air is going to sink. Why monitor the freshest air?

Are you standing on your heads?

 

[deleted_account]

do you fish standing up in a permanent?

 

[Account Deleted]

J Emerg Med. 2012 Apr;42(4):478-82. doi: 10.1016/j.jemermed.2011.03.015. Epub 2011 May 4.
Should the placement of carbon monoxide (CO) detectors be influenced by CO's weight relative to air?

Hampson NB[SUP]1[/SUP], Courtney TG, Holm JR.
Author information


Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Numerous states and localities have recently passed legislation mandating the installation and use of residential carbon monoxide (CO) detectors/alarms. Interestingly, there seems to be confusion about the optimal placement, if any, of CO alarms inside the home.
OBJECTIVES:

It was the goal of this study to demonstrate the behavior of CO in air and to help provide a data-based recommendation for CO alarm placement.
METHODS:

CO was calculated to be slightly lighter than air. An 8-foot-tall airtight Plexiglas chamber was constructed and CO monitors placed within at the top, middle, and bottom. CO test gas (15 L, 3000 parts per million) was infused at each of the three heights in different trials and CO levels measured over time.
RESULTS:

Contrary to a significant amount of public opinion, CO did not layer on the floor, float at the middle of the chamber, or rise to the top. In each case, the levels of CO equalized throughout the test chamber. It took longer to equalize when CO was infused at the top of the chamber than the bottom, but levels always became identical with time.
CONCLUSIONS:

As would have been predicted by the Second Law of Thermodynamics, CO infused anywhere within the chamber diffused until it was of equal concentration throughout. Mixing would be even faster in the home environment, with drafts due to motion or temperature. It would be reasonable to place a residential CO alarm at any height within the room.

 

[johnr]

Well titty sprinkle me running, which is it guys.
mrs johnr needs me to make it off the ice on the very rare occasion I spend the night.

I think a cracked wind'r and maybe a fan to equalize the temp would be the cats ass. Open the window a crack on the calm side for the evening

 

[Captain Ahab]

Unless you have an uber sealed shelter your purest air comes from the outside.

It is cold outside so the air will be cold.

Coldest (cleanest) air is going to sink. Why monitor the freshest air?

Are you standing on your heads?

I sometimes jig and have caught fish while laying down.

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It's relaxing, you should try it.

 

[guywhofishes]

do you fish standing up in a permanent?

I fished out of one when I was like 10. I can't recall.

 

[johnr]

In the time it took me to type this earlier response 7 posts came into play...holy speedy responses

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I bet I can post this and still be beat with some speed typer smarty pants sonsabitches, making it look as though I am slow and don't understand simple things and stuff.

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I fished out of one when I was like 10. I can't recall.

Was it an igloo?

 

[guywhofishes]

It was an old wooden shelter (driftwood and whale bones)

It was actually on Audubon in the early 70s. My Dad (laid off for the winter) and his farmer buddy used to prety much live there (aka benders).

I remember the heavy black braid and tiny red/white bobbers like they were yesterday.

 

[deleted_account]

I fish drunk and laying down. Fyi

 

[sl1000794]

On the periodic table carbon has an atomic weight of 6 and oxygen has an atomic weight of 8 … so CO (6+8) weighs 14 and O2 (8+8) weighs 16 - ergo, CO should be lighter than O2. I think in the building code that they recommend one CO sensor high and one sensor low.

Steve.