Habitat Hunting Access Summit

[Kurtr]

Just after sunup on a Saturday morning and your playing on your phone/PC. I thought you were a waterfowl guy?

I know you’re not very sharp and all but there is this new technology called cellular phones. You should check it out.

 

[1lessdog]

I know you’re not very sharp and all but there is this new technology called cellular phones. You should check it

Apparently the S D. school system didn't teach you how to read as it says phone.

 

[BrockW]

No I’d rather keep a safe distance from internet stalkers and people who harass people via messaging even after being told to “please stop messaging me” you definitely have a screw loose. The overwhelming majority of these lands are funded by instate dollars generated by instate money. Saying they funded by on their own is and not the general fund…… thats like your dumb ass calling grants “free money” keep arguing with everyone. Be a cheerleader for cwd and NRs. Argue people based on a technicality to what they say. You’re a giant piece of shit. I hope you choke and and perish from all the giant dicks you swallow.

Sorry for the delay Dinius, was out hunting this morning!

As far as a response. I know you have some trouble with the facts. But regardless of what your opinion is, the facts are that the state trust department and the game and fish do not take a penny from the general fund. They are completely self funded through their own revenue sources. The state trust department through lease fees and development revenue, like oil and gas. The Game and fish is funded through license dollars and federal matched dollars, primarily by the Pittman Robertson(excise tax on guns and ammo) and the Dingle Johnson funds (excise on fishing tackle and electronics). Those federal funds account for roughly half of their annual budget on any given year.

“On Monday, April 24, state lawmakers approved the $107 million budget for the North Dakota Game and Fish Department — including $27 million in federal funds.”
https://www.kxnet.com/news/state-news/state-lawmakers-approve-nd-game-and-fish-budget/amp/

The 107 million is their biennial appropriation from their own funds, which they need to go to the legislature to get approval to spend.

So, 107/2‎ = 53.5 per year
53.5/2‎ = 26.75=1/2 of the GF annual budget
FY2023 Federal funds as indicated in the article = 27 million.

So, again zero general fund dollars and the the ND game and fish, like all state wildlife agencies in the country, get a significant portion of their funding from federal excise taxes. That’s why the passing of the Pittman-Robertson Federal aid in wildlife restoration act was so significant. It was hunters that asked for it and generated the support for it. Hunters came together to willingly tax themselves all across the nation, to support their wildlife resources and their wildlife management agencies.

As far as “cheerleading” goes, I’m certainly a cheerleader for science based management and letting the subject matter experts work with the public in managing our wildlife resources. Whether that’s fighting cat hunting bans in Colorado, or fighting the baiting bill here in ND, the message is the same. I’ll quote Dan Gates and Coloradans for Responsible Wildlife Management,”Let scientists not activist manage our wildlife”.

As far as the rest. I guess I’m not sure what your objective is? You sent me something just short of 100 messages in our discussion. So, you were plenty willing to engage with me. Though I will say, your reputation precedes you. But hoping I die? Because I’m willing to have a discussion about some incorrect claims you made? I dunno, I guess the fact that you think/say that makes me chuckle a little. But outside of that, I am unaffected. That particular opinion of yours means nothing to me.

So, I will continue to engage with those on your side and try to share factual information. If the sentiment you’ve shown here is all you have for a response….well, I guess that’s on you. I know a lot of us would sure appreciate it if you guys would stop attacking folks and supporting lies and conspiracy theories. Im sure the folks at the GF would like to focus on things other than dealing with you guys all the time. But I’m guessing that asking you nicely to “stop”, is probably a standard you only hold others too, and not yourself.

 

[Trip McNeely]

Sorry for the delay Dinius, was out hunting this morning!

As far as a response. I know you have some trouble with the facts. But regardless of what your opinion is, the facts are that the state trust department and the game and fish do not take a penny from the general fund. They are completely self funded through their own revenue sources. The state trust department through lease fees and development revenue, like oil and gas. The Game and fish is funded through license dollars and federal matched dollars, primarily by the Pittman Robertson(excise tax on guns and ammo) and the Dingle Johnson funds (excise on fishing tackle and electronics). Those federal funds account for roughly half of their annual budget on any given year.

“On Monday, April 24, state lawmakers approved the $107 million budget for the North Dakota Game and Fish Department — including $27 million in federal funds.”
https://www.kxnet.com/news/state-news/state-lawmakers-approve-nd-game-and-fish-budget/amp/

The 107 million is their biennial appropriation from their own funds, which they need to go to the legislature to get approval to spend.

So, 107/2‎ = 53.5 per year
53.5/2‎ = 26.75=1/2 of the GF annual budget
FY2023 Federal funds as indicated in the article = 27 million.

So, again zero general fund dollars and the the ND game and fish, like all state wildlife agencies in the country, get a significant portion of their funding from federal excise taxes. That’s why the passing of the Pittman-Robertson Federal aid in wildlife restoration act was so significant. It was hunters that asked for it and generated the support for it. Hunters came together to willingly tax themselves all across the nation, to support their wildlife resources and their wildlife management agencies.

As far as “cheerleading” goes, I’m certainly a cheerleader for science based management and letting the subject matter experts work with the public in managing our wildlife resources. Whether that’s fighting cat hunting bans in Colorado, or fighting the baiting bill here in ND, the message is the same. I’ll quote Dan Gates and Coloradans for Responsible Wildlife Management,”Let scientists not activist manage our wildlife”.

As far as the rest. I guess I’m not sure what your objective is? You sent me something just short of 100 messages in our discussion. So, you were plenty willing to engage with me. Though I will say, your reputation precedes you. But hoping I die? Because I’m willing to have a discussion about some incorrect claims you made? I dunno, I guess the fact that you think/say that makes me chuckle a little. But outside of that, I am unaffected. That particular opinion of yours means nothing to me.

So, I will continue to engage with those on your side and try to share factual information. If the sentiment you’ve shown here is all you have for a response….well, I guess that’s on you. I know a lot of us would sure appreciate it if you guys would stop attacking folks and supporting lies and conspiracy theories. Im sure the folks at the GF would like to focus on things other than dealing with you guys all the time. But I’m guessing that asking you nicely to “stop”, is probably a standard you only hold others too, and not yourself.

Stop internet stalking me and anyone in my family. Solely because we disagree with your narrative. Also stop sending unsolicited messages to members of my family. Furthermore when people ask you to stop messaging them you don’t continue. You’ve got something extraordinarily fucked up in your head. You can’t coerce or harass your will on others. It’s one thing to make a case on a platform but to use stalker tactics and harass people via message unsolicited even after being asked to stop isnt only unprofessional it’s completely psychotic. All because you can’t control a narrative you want an outcome for. I hope others can see just how truly deranged of a little man you really are.

 

[Kurtr]

Apparently the S D. school system didn't teach you how to read as it says phone.

I didn’t want to assume you’re smart enough to know phones don’t have cords any more.

 

[BrockW]

Stop internet stalking me and anyone in my family. Solely because we disagree with your narrative. Also stop sending unsolicited messages to members of my family. Furthermore when people ask you to stop messaging them you don’t continue. You’ve got something extraordinarily fucked up in your head. You can’t coerce or harass your will on others. It’s one thing to make a case on a platform but to use stalker tactics and harass people via message unsolicited even after being asked to stop isnt only unprofessional it’s completely psychotic. All because you can’t control a narrative you want an outcome for. I hope others can see just how truly deranged of a little man you really are.

What are you talking about? I don’t even know if I know anyone in your family? I was told you are a Dinius, someone told me you’re Josh. Outside of that, that I don’t know who youre related to. Frankly, I don’t really care. Nobody is stalking anybody that I’m aware of.

I replied to a comment Josh made on a GF FB post…a public post. I messaged Josh instead of having an entire conversation in a comment thread. Josh responded, almost 100 times.

 

[Trip McNeely]

You were trying to figure out who I was. For what reason other than to be a fucking complete weirdo I can only guess because I call your cwd bullshit out. You then mistakenly start a conversation with someone who isnt me assuming you are talking to me. After some debate over the issue you were told to stop messaging and didnt. That’s what I’m talking about. The fact you find it necessary to find out who I am and put the time into internet stalking me over vigorously disagreeing with you on a stupid outdoor platform and then engage in a debate because of a Facebook post where ypu wrongly assume it was me. But then once that debate had run its course and ypu were told to stop messaging you didnt….. thats what Im talking about.

 

[1lessdog]

I didn’t want to assume you’re smart enough to know phones don’t have cords any more.

I assume you're in special resources all through school and didn't know any better.

 

[BrockW]

You were trying to figure out who I was. For what reason other than to be a fucking complete weirdo I can only guess because I call your cwd bullshit out. You then mistakenly start a conversation with someone who isnt me assuming you are talking to me. After some debate over the issue you were told to stop messaging and didnt. That’s what I’m talking about. The fact you find it necessary to find out who I am and put the time into internet stalking me over vigorously disagreeing with you on a stupid outdoor platform and then engage in a debate because of a Facebook post where ypu wrongly assume it was me. But then once that debate had run its course and ypu were told to stop messaging you didnt….. thats what Im talking about.

I wasn’t trying to figure out who you were at all. After one of your rants on here someone I know messaged me and told me. I didn’t ask because I don’t really care. But I did misremember, they actually said it was Jeremy not Josh? I dunno I don’t care.

 

[Trip McNeely]

Haha you’re a fucking schlub. Let’s see the rest of the conversation with your fellow 5013c pal. Im glad I can live rent free in your head. You ever wonder why you need to defend your stance so hard? Because it’s bullshit and everyone knows it. If it were a good idea ypu wouldn’t need to spend all your time stalking and trying to convince people. The fact that someone’s opinion or stance on a topic on various forums bothers you that much tells me all I need to know about what type of person you are. Ask your “buddy” how many farmers or landowners i know….. BHA wont be getting my praises in any conversations in the future.

 

[svnmag]

Trouble with this sigh IMO; is the difference is micron thin. Carry on.

 

[BrockW]

Haha you’re a fucking schlub. Let’s see the rest of the conversation with your fellow 5013c pal. Im glad I can live rent free in your head. You ever wonder why you need to defend your stance so hard? Because it’s bullshit and everyone knows it. If it were a good idea ypu wouldn’t need to spend all your time stalking and trying to convince people. The fact that someone’s opinion or stance on a topic on various forums bothers you that much tells me all I need to know about what type of person you are. Ask your “buddy” how many farmers or landowners i know….. BHA wont be getting my praises in any conversations in the future.

I’m not really sure if he’s involved in any 501c3. I certainly don’t know what relevance the landowners you know are to this conversation.

But I can assure you, you don’t occupy much space in my head. I actively engage with any of the known supporters of the CWD conspiracy page or their efforts, be it with you or anyone else. You are not the first, and likely won’t be the last.

I do that so people can see a reasonable person with factual, evidence based information participate in those conversations. I want to get good information out there so people can understand the science around the issue and compare that to the claims you guys make. That’s my goal with engaging in these conversations. Again, whether or not it’s you is irrelevant to me. You or Josh, or whoever you are, just happen to be the person who said something untrue on a public forum.

I also know that my stance is not “bullshit”. But I don’t believe for second that you guys are stupid either. I think you guys have an emotional response due to losing, or potentially losing, baiting. That emotion has been the source of some cognitive bias and motivated reasoning. Perhaps even some naivety and foolishness about the information you guys use and perpetuate.

Honestly, I can understand and empathize with that emotional response. I’ve never not used bait for archery hunting whitetails. Have friends that still do. Though, I haven’t archery whitetail hunted in probably over a decade. But for me, the overall resource comes first. It comes before me, you, or any other hunter. Without the resource, hunting is nothing. I happen to love both very much.

I would say what bothers me is that the movement you and others are involved in is an attack on the American way. It’s an attack on the North American model of wildlife management. No different than the anti-cat hunting folks in Colorado. The NAM represents a way of doing things in this country that has made us the greatest in the world when it comes to wildlife management and hunting and fishing for the regular man. You guys are attacking it for your own selfish interests. In complete denial about the facts at best and at worst, straight up dishonesty to get what you want. I don’t support either. In fact, I oppose the very notion of it.

I will continue to stand up for what’s right. I will continue to advocate for the public’s deer resource. I will continue to advocate for the North American model of wildlife management and science based management for the betterment of hunting and fishing. I do not care what any of you guys accuse me of. I don’t care what you guys think about me or NDBHA. I don’t care what you say about me. Go say it again.

 

[BrockW]

Trouble with this sigh IMO; is the difference is micron thin. Carry on.

I appreciate that observation, sometimes, on some issues, that is indeed the case.

In my opinion, Theodore Roosevelt captures that sentiment very well.

“Defenders of the short-sighted men who in their greed and selfishness will, if permitted, rob our country of half its charm by their reckless extermination of all useful and beautiful wild things sometimes seek to champion them by saying the ‘the game belongs to the people.’ So it does; and not merely to the people now alive, but to the unborn people. The ‘greatest good for the greatest number’ applies to the number within the womb of time, compared to which those now alive form but an insignificant fraction. Our duty to the whole, including the unborn generations, bids us restrain an unprincipled present-day minority from wasting the heritage of these unborn generations. The movement for the conservation of wild life and the larger movement for the conservation of all our natural resources are essentially democratic in spirit, purpose, and method.”

 

[Kurtr]

I assume you're in special resources all through school and didn't know any better.

Sick burn.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

From 1900 to 1990 it was the North American Wildlife Conservation Model. Everyone knows the story well. Hook and bullet sportsmen came together to bring wildlife back. GnF agencies were created to manage the laws. The people set bag limits, methods of take etc. through representation at the legislature.

In the late 90's an immigrant from communist East Germany, Valerius Geist and Canadian Shane Mahoney wrote the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation. Notice the play on words, Model is in a different spot. It's a high jack.

They quote Theodore Roosevelt and rehash the killing of the buffalo, breaking of the sod etc. And then they leap over everything hook and bullet sportsmen did up to the 90's. I wrote it down as Valerius Geist said it, "the management of wildlife should not reside with the legislature, the management of wildlife should be placed squarely in the hands of highly intelligent wildlife professionals."

He said that an NGO non-governmental non-profit org meeting.

The NAM is the attack on the American way.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

https://gf.nd.gov/advisory-board

Advisory Board meeting District 7 video.

Skip to 58 minutes. Old Bill at 94 years old says he feels sorry for GnF having to work with the legislature. Some of those people don't know anything about hunting. And a lot of other things. Lots of chuckles around the room.

Really!!! Your elected legislator doesn't need to be versed on every subject. They need to hear it from sportsmen.

Disciples of the NAM exploit that. Whenever you see someone divisively typing about how dumb politicians are, your radar should be activating.

 

[BrockW]

From 1900 to 1990 it was the North American Wildlife Conservation Model. Everyone knows the story well. Hook and bullet sportsmen came together to bring wildlife back. GnF agencies were created to manage the laws. The people set bag limits, methods of take etc. through representation at the legislature.

In the late 90's an immigrant from communist East Germany, Valerius Geist and Canadian Shane Mahoney wrote the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation. Notice the play on words, Model is in a different spot. It's a high jack.

They quote Theodore Roosevelt and rehash the killing of the buffalo, breaking of the sod etc. And then they leap over everything hook and bullet sportsmen did up to the 90's. I wrote it down as Valerius Geist said it, "the management of wildlife should not reside with the legislature, the management of wildlife should be placed squarely in the hands of highly intelligent wildlife professionals."

He said that an NGO non-governmental non-profit org meeting.

The NAM is the attack on the American way.

Nice twist. Not surprised (and I bet no one else here is either) that you don’t support the NAM.

However, Mr. Geist was actually sharing the core concept of the “Roosevelt Doctrine”. This was an idea of Theodore Roosevelt, when he founded the Boone and Crockett club. But Aldo Leupold was the one who originally coined the label. TR, of course, was a foundational advocate for science based management of natural resources and it is from him, that the crucially important tenant was formed.

Wildlife is to be “Managed by science - The best science available will be used as a base for informed decision making in wildlife management.”

https://www.boone-crockett.org/north-american-model-wildlife-conservation

 

[Trip McNeely]

I’m not really sure if he’s involved in any 501c3. I certainly don’t know what relevance the landowners you know are to this conversation.

But I can assure you, you don’t occupy much space in my head. I actively engage with any of the known supporters of the CWD conspiracy page or their efforts, be it with you or anyone else. You are not the first, and likely won’t be the last.

I do that so people can see a reasonable person with factual, evidence based information participate in those conversations. I want to get good information out there so people can understand the science around the issue and compare that to the claims you guys make. That’s my goal with engaging in these conversations. Again, whether or not it’s you is irrelevant to me. You or Josh, or whoever you are, just happen to be the person who said something untrue on a public forum.

I also know that my stance is not “bullshit”. But I don’t believe for second that you guys are stupid either. I think you guys have an emotional response due to losing, or potentially losing, baiting. That emotion has been the source of some cognitive bias and motivated reasoning. Perhaps even some naivety and foolishness about the information you guys use and perpetuate.

Honestly, I can understand and empathize with that emotional response. I’ve never not used bait for archery hunting whitetails. Have friends that still do. Though, I haven’t archery whitetail hunted in probably over a decade. But for me, the overall resource comes first. It comes before me, you, or any other hunter. Without the resource, hunting is nothing. I happen to love both very much.

I would say what bothers me is that the movement you and others are involved in is an attack on the American way. It’s an attack on the North American model of wildlife management. No different than the anti-cat hunting folks in Colorado. The NAM represents a way of doing things in this country that has made us the greatest in the world when it comes to wildlife management and hunting and fishing for the regular man. You guys are attacking it for your own selfish interests. In complete denial about the facts at best and at worst, straight up dishonesty to get what you want. I don’t support either. In fact, I oppose the very notion of it.

I will continue to stand up for what’s right. I will continue to advocate for the public’s deer resource. I will continue to advocate for the North American model of wildlife management and science based management for the betterment of hunting and fishing. I do not care what any of you guys accuse me of. I don’t care what you guys think about me or NDBHA. I don’t care what you say about me. Go say it again.

You are so full of bullshit. How many deer has cwd killed in nd Brock? How many? You’ll never give a strait laced answer without some gaslighting bullshit study of a 87 year old deer in Wisconsin. Landowners see right through your shit. Trust me. And it has nothing to do with baiting. And you know damn well how protective people are about landowners rights here…. As an organization you come in and start stepping on people’s toes right off the bat…. Good luck. I tried to offer my opinion on slowing your roll with cwd and the 90% private property in ND. You can’t bulldog your way like ypu do in other states. But youd rather double down and look like a jackass. Whether you are right or not. (You are 100% off the mark and there is ample fact based evidence to support this whole idea is bullshit ) the private landowners hold the cards in this state. So coming in hot and ruffling feathers is a a sure way to make yourself not welcome as well as the BHA. Im not going to rehash anything with you. Leave me alone and go spew your garbage away from me.

 

[BrockW]

How many deer has cwd killed in nd Brock? How many? You’ll never give a strait laced answer without some gaslighting bullshit study of a 87 year old deer in Wisconsin.

Unknown. With single digit prevalence in a couple areas in the state, not a huge number.

That’s the point of the baiting bans and the best management practices in general. To help slow the growth in prevalence. To prevent as many man made hot spots as possible.

Here’s one of those “87 year old” deer.

And you know damn well how protective people are about landowners rights here…. As an organization you come in and start stepping on people’s toes right off the bat…. Good luck. I tried to offer my opinion on slowing your roll with cwd and the 90% private property in ND.

Wildlife belongs to the public. This has been settled by federal case law and is known as the public trust doctrine. Wildlife is not private property. If you want to challenge that, bring it to the Supreme Court. People have tried….all have failed.

And it has nothing to do with baiting.

We can find infectious prions on man placed mineral licks, in feed, and on feeders.

there is ample fact based evidence to support this whole idea is bullshit

show us. We’d all love to see it.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

There is definitely something that killed that pictured deer above. "Their" science theory says a misfolded prion. It can incubate for a year or more.

Have had two friends that had CWD in a farmed deer operation and an elk farm. When the first animal showed signs, it became a domino. More animals became infected within a week or two.

It didn't need a year or two to incubate. It spread fast with a pneumonia-like symptom.

There are some true believers in the prion theory. I am not there.