manslaughter VS homicide

Davey Crockett

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Looks to me that whoever set the charges for the Cramer kid is backpaddling .

https://www.kfyrtv.com/2023/12/14/u...ML3zGLI4fNchNg46PcqldkLYrC9bC-l2Jx5NczjigRqpw


What is worse manslaughter or negligent homicide?


To most people with little exposure to the legal system, the two offenses may seem interchangeable. Manslaughter, however, as a second-degree felony, carries much harsher penalties than criminally negligent homicide, which is a state jail felony.
 


lunkerslayer

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The way I interpret this is the lesser charge is considered because of the state of the suspects mind at the time of the incident. Since this man is most likely been diagnosed with mental illness, it would he difficult to get a jury to convict this person under the intentional manslaughter because of the state of psychosis.
 

Gus

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He’s now charged with homicide while fleeing peace officer, a class A felony
 


Obi-Wan

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CHAPTER 12.1-16 HOMICIDE

12.1-16-01. Murder. 1. A person is guilty of murder, a class AA felony, if the person:
a. Intentionally or knowingly causes the death of another human being;
b. Causes the death of another human being under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life; or
c. Acting either alone or with one or more other persons, commits or attempts to commit treason, robbery, burglary, kidnapping, felonious restraint, arson, gross sexual imposition, a felony offense against a child under section 12.1-20-03, 12.1-27.2-02, 12.1-27.2-03, 12.1-27.2-04, or 14-09-22, or escape and, in the course of and in furtherance of such crime or of immediate flight therefrom, the person or any other participant in the crime causes the death of any person. In any prosecution under this subsection in which the defendant was not the only participant in the underlying crime, it is an affirmative defense that the defendant:
(1) Did not commit the homicidal act or in any way solicit, command, induce, procure, counsel, or aid the commission thereof;
(2) Was not armed with a firearm, destructive device, dangerous weapon, or other weapon which under the circumstances indicated a readiness to inflict serious bodily injury;
(3) Reasonably believed that no other participant was armed with such a weapon; and
(4) Reasonably believed that no other participant intended to engage in conduct likely to result in death or serious bodily injury.
Subdivisions a and b are inapplicable in the circumstances covered by subsection 2.

2. A person is guilty of murder, a class A felony, if the person causes the death of another human being under circumstances which would be class AA felony murder, except that the person causes the death under the influence of extreme emotional disturbance for which there is reasonable excuse. The reasonableness of the excuse must be determined from the viewpoint of a person in that person's situation under the circumstances as that person believes them to be. An extreme emotional disturbance is excusable, within the meaning of this subsection only, if it is occasioned by substantial provocation, or a serious event, or situation for which the offender was not culpably responsible.

12.1-16-02. Manslaughter. A person is guilty of manslaughter, a class B felony, if he recklessly causes the death of another human being.

12.1-16-03. Negligent homicide. A person is guilty of a class C felony if he negligently causes the death of another human being.

12.1-16-04. Assisting the commission of suicide - Causing death by suicide - Penalties. 1. Any person who intentionally or knowingly aids, abets, facilitates, solicits, or incites another person to commit suicide, or who provides to, delivers to, procures for, or prescribes for another person any drug or instrument with knowledge that the other person intends to attempt to commit suicide with the drug or instrument is guilty of a class C felony. 2. Any person who, through deception, coercion, or duress, willfully causes the death of another person by suicide is guilty of a class AA felony.
 

espringers

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Regardless of mental illness, it seems to me that the mens rea or culpability here was recklessly at a minimum. Regardless, it doesn't matter with the current charge that just got added. Fwiw... if anyone thinks there are favors being done for senator Cramer, I don't see it happening in mercer County given the outcry for the loss of this officer.
 


wslayer

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The laundry list of drugs he had, if he gets the 20yrs, it ain't enough. Funny he hasn't already killed someone, not like this is his first rodeo with dope.
 

Freedom

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The more that comes out the more it looks like in this case the mental illness was drug addiction.
 

Eatsleeptrap

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If he intentionally turned head-on into the parked lit up squad car, it's homicide. The death penalty is off the table, but it should be ON the table and pay per view.
 


Obi-Wan

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If he intentionally turned head-on into the parked lit up squad car, it's homicide. The death penalty is off the table, but it should be ON the table and pay per view.
ND doesn't have the death penalty, I believe the feds would have to step in and charge him for it to apply.

Did he know the officer was behind the car ?
 

Colt45

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I suspect Ian Kramer was trying to end his life and survived the crash, just a guess though. Tragic ending and very sad story, read where he is adopted by the Kramer family also and is not a biological son.
 

guywhofishes

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If this happened at night or low light Ian’s vision for seeing the officer would have been a huge issue if the officer’s vehicle had those laser-intense LED flashing lights

I’ve tried to drive past them slowly and damn near could’nt see a thing - even the road to go past their vehicle

the strobing/blinding effect is immense - I’ve even cussed after I got past the situation because it was difficult to do

just a thought
 

Retired Educator

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How many of us have had family members with drug addiction or mental problems and what did we do to help. I'm sure Sen Kramer is heart-broken for the family of the police officer who was killed by his son's careless recklessness.

Now what should be done? There is no doubt from everything I've read that Ian Kramer did cause the death of this officer. So now what is the question. Life in prison? Let him loose? Somewhere in between? Is there a possibility for treatment that would insure this would never happen again? I'm not sure there is a best answer.

I do know, as I'm sure is true for quite a few of us, that there are people who accept treatment and become good citizens of the community. Sometimes treatment takes more than one try. Perhaps time in prison until treatment has successfully been completed is best. Is treatment for addiction or mental illness available in prison?

To many questions to be able for me to see what is the appropriate action. Is Ian responsible for the death, yes. Was it intentional, not sure. Was the officer at fault in any capacity, no. Was Sen. Kramer responsible in any form, no. Where do we go from here? Let the courts sort if out for an appropriate sentence and when faced with a possible issue such as what caused this, take the time to think and do what we can to prevent another incident.
 

lunkerslayer

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How many of us have had family members with drug addiction or mental problems and what did we do to help. I'm sure Sen Kramer is heart-broken for the family of the police officer who was killed by his son's careless recklessness.

Now what should be done? There is no doubt from everything I've read that Ian Kramer did cause the death of this officer. So now what is the question. Life in prison? Let him loose? Somewhere in between? Is there a possibility for treatment that would insure this would never happen again? I'm not sure there is a best answer.

I do know, as I'm sure is true for quite a few of us, that there are people who accept treatment and become good citizens of the community. Sometimes treatment takes more than one try. Perhaps time in prison until treatment has successfully been completed is best. Is treatment for addiction or mental illness available in prison?

To many questions to be able for me to see what is the appropriate action. Is Ian responsible for the death, yes. Was it intentional, not sure. Was the officer at fault in any capacity, no. Was Sen. Kramer responsible in any form, no. Where do we go from here? Let the courts sort if out for an appropriate sentence and when faced with a possible issue such as what caused this, take the time to think and do what we can to prevent another incident.
Well by 2026 all new vehicles in the United States will have a kill switch installed that will give leo the authority to use it if public safety is in danger. High speed chases will be a thing of the past in the next decade thanks to groups like madd, dadd, and radd who i presume this type of federal mandate they would support 💯.
 


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