Michigan deer annoyance

bravo

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2015
Posts
751
Likes
665
Points
298
Why everyone is against money being spent on “futile” CWD strategies but tout hiring Dr. Deer to take the reigns (who only charges $125,000-$175,000 from the state for his study/plan) is baffling. He seems to show up at legislative sessions where he’s paid by special interest groups to help discredit DNR’s. It’s almost like the deer growers want to corner the market of hunting 🤔.

https://www.patrickdurkinoutdoors.com/post/deer-czar-fails-to-assess-impacts-of-his-2012-report

https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/...s/dr-deer-james-kroll-deer-report-disappoints
 
Last edited:


lunkerslayer

Founding Member
Founding Member
Thread starter
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Posts
20,813
Likes
4,980
Points
883
Location
Cavalier, ND
Tracy Nichols is saying they have no idea how it's entering some cervid farms, not that they don't know how it's contagious.

They have proven over and over again that it spreads through horizontal transmission and through environmental transmission. What they don't know, is the exact carrier into a new captive facility that has never had the disease before. In many cases, they suspect it's contaminated feed/hay, or some other type of indirect contamination. Sometimes they suspect there was a false negative test or an animal did not have detectable levels of prions in their test, therefore it was missed.
That's the kind of information you are posting that is the issue about the speculation of how cwd is spreading. Even though you are making dmome valid points, your points are still moot to the sportsman who have been skeptical of the information that is biased and is inconclusive to the general consensus.
 

lunkerslayer

Founding Member
Founding Member
Thread starter
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Posts
20,813
Likes
4,980
Points
883
Location
Cavalier, ND
I watched that video the day it was first released.
To your post, there's a lot to unpack here. First of all, I'm not sure why there is such a willingness to take whatever Keith Warren or Dr. Deer say as fact. They are some of the most heavily biased folks in this discussion, as both have financial ties to the deer farming industry and/or feeding/baiting products.

Specifically, Dr. Deer has openly advocated against public hunters and public hunting oppotunity; he thinks everything should be privatized the way of the rest of the world. So, if you're an average joe hunter, Dr. Deer does not have your best interest in mind.
https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/...-will-high-fence-hunting-bias-skew-final-plan

On top of that, Dr. Deer is not even a veterinarian or a big game biologist. His background is Herpetology (lizards and amphibians), and he has never performed or been involved in a SINGLE study or research effort on ANY disease of deer or cervids. Not one.

In 2007 he predicted that CWD prevalence would never exceed 2% in Wisconsin....how did that prediction turn out?
https://www.patrickdurkinoutdoors.com/post/deer-czar-fails-to-assess-impacts-of-his-2012-report

Second, the "solution" as you say is not to "slaughter 100 percent". That a completely false representation of the culling strategies currently taking place. The culling that is happening these days is a tiny fraction of the deer populations. Look at where the culling is going on, places like Illinois, Wisconsin, Arkansas, Missouri, places with deer populations well into the MILLIONS of deer. Most of the culling taking place nowadays is very targeted and very localized, hitting small family groups of deer that are thought to have contact with a known positive test. This is far cry from wiping "100%" of the deer.

And notice how most of the Mule deer states, and states in the west with lower deer densities, they're doing virtually zero culling. This idea that this is all a way to wipe out all the deer and deer hunting is an absolute joke.

Now to refute some of the significant items in that video.

Dr. Deer claims that CWD does not affect fecundity or recruitment. This is false. The University of Georgia, Arkansas Game and Fish, and others have all participated in research that shows white-tailed deer being born with CWD and subsequently dying from the disease at a young age. Once these papers have been published, I will gladly share them here. In fact, I talk with Dr. Ruder about this in Part 1 of our recent podcast with him on Hemorrhagic disease. In Arkansas's population study using GPS collars, they have positives in fawns as young as 6 months. The likelihood that a deer that is born with CWD, or is positive at 6 months old, will replace itself on the landscape is not good.


Listen to the first part of this podcast where I talk directly with Dr. Ruder about this very topic.
https://www.backcountryhunters.org/north_dakota_bha_podcast_episode_6
Again, Keith Warren and Dr. Deer want to "stock resistant" deer. There is no such thing as resistant deer. Dr. Seabury himself has said in a public meeting, multiple times, that his breeding program won't work on wild deer because you have no control over breeding in the wild. Additionally, Dr. Seabury refuses to submit deer from his breeding program to inoculation studies because he knows they'll become positive and die from the disease, lessening the market value of his product that last I checked he charges $75 per animal. Anyone know how many animals are in his breeding program? It ain't just a few.....
He says Wisconsin culled "172,000 deer in one day". Show me where this took place, because there is nothing that substantiates this. I believe Dr. Deer is intentionally misconstruing the events to try and make the DNR look bad. I'm almost certain what he is actually talking about is an effort in the early 2000s where the Wisconsin DNR went in and culled 15,000 deer in their "disease eradication zone" and then saw that indeed it didn't work in eradicating the disease. This supports the current science that says once prevalence eclipses about 1.8%, there is likely a 0 percent probability that you will eradicate the disease.

But the state of New York did eradicate it through culling, because they caught it early. So, it can work, and it can slow growth in prevalence rates. But culling is certainly not a one size fits all tool, and results have certainly been mixed. I share some of the heart burn over deer culling but, objectively I can also see it's logical application to the situation.
https://dec.ny.gov/nature/animals-f...ealth/animal-diseases/chronic-wasting-disease

Dr. Deer says CWD is only a frequency dependent disease. Again, not black and white. CWD is considered "intermediate", though it leans towards frequency dependent. But think of Frequency dependent and density dependent modes of transmission as a spectrum and CWD is in the middle.
https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1890/ES12-00141.1
https://russell-cwd.webhosting.cals.wisc.edu/foi/transmission-modes/


Keith says "follow the money". Dr Deer says "a continued appropriation of 72 million dollars portioned out to the states"....again.... this is false. The CWD management and research act has NEVER been fully appropriated.
1721842445649.png



Does Dr. Deer know any of this? Is he lying? How could he be so misinformed on a topic he claims to be the authority on.
I do agree and have stated that it would be beneficial if there were actual links to the information that is being discussed on these podcasts, without links to these studies the communication breaks down. When looking at this video at face value I get the idea based on the discussion that these gentlemen care about the deer population and that high fence hunting is only going to get more popular in the next decade or two especially when more and more public land or private land is being chopped up by developers. The podcast brings this up and don't deny that it is happening especially when we can see it first hand or read about examples of people thinking that they own land blocking sportsman that access that many have done in the past.
You didn't offer your opinion on the fact that an infected deer was allowed to escape a facility that was supposed to be used for research. You don't find that a little odd, the conspiracy theorist in me thinks that it was intentional to infect and then eradicate thousands of deer. Regardless of how long it took to kill all those deer, doesn't change the fact that it was done and done because of negligence either deliberately or by accident doesn't change the fact that it has changed the very ecosystem that was nearly nonexistent before then.
 
Last edited:

lunkerslayer

Founding Member
Founding Member
Thread starter
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Posts
20,813
Likes
4,980
Points
883
Location
Cavalier, ND
Why everyone is against money being spent on “futile” CWD strategies but tout hiring Dr. Deer to take the reigns (who only charges $125,000-$175,000 from the state for his study/plan) is baffling. He seems to show up at legislative sessions where he’s paid by special interest groups to help discredit DNR’s. It’s almost like the deer growers want to corner the market of hunting 🤔.

https://www.patrickdurkinoutdoors.com/post/deer-czar-fails-to-assess-impacts-of-his-2012-report

https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/...s/dr-deer-james-kroll-deer-report-disappoints
No one is against spending money it's how that money is being spent that is the issue or where that money is coming from.
 

Fritz the Cat

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 11, 2015
Posts
5,221
Likes
810
Points
483
Keith says "follow the money". Dr Deer says "a continued appropriation of 72 million dollars portioned out to the states"....again.... this is false. The CWD management and research act has NEVER been fully appropriated.

https://www.hoeven.senate.gov/news/...sting-disease-research-and-management-efforts

11.02.22

HOEVEN OUTLINES LEGISLATION TO BOLSTER CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE RESEARCH AND MANAGEMENT EFFORTS​

Senator Meets with ND Game & Fish, Sportsmen & Livestock Groups Ahead of Deer Hunting Season​

BISMARCK, N.D. – Senator John Hoeven today held a meeting with North Dakota Game and Fish officials, including Director Jeb Williams, as well as representatives from sportsmen and livestock groups, to discuss efforts to combat Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD). To this end, Hoeven is sponsoring legislation with Senator Martin Heinrich (D-N.M.) that would provide $70 million per year, split evenly between both research and management of the disease. The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) would administer the funds through cooperative agreements with state and tribal wildlife agencies and agriculture departments.

“Hunting is both a longtime tradition in North Dakota and an important part of our economy. With deer hunting season opening this week, today’s discussion on efforts to address the impact of CWD on both wildlife and deer farmers is timely,” said Hoeven, Ranking Member of the Senate Agriculture Appropriations Committee and a senior member of the Senate Agriculture Committee. “Our ag researchers and Game and Fish officials are working hard to combat this harmful disease, but they need additional help. Our legislation would bolster their efforts by providing needed resources to research and develop better testing methods and management practices, while also empowering states and tribes to implement these solutions.”

Specifically, the legislation authorizes funds for the following priorities:

Research

  • Methods to effectively detect CWD in live cervids and the environment.
  • Testing methods for non-live cervids.
  • Genetic resistance to CWD.
  • Sustainable cervid harvest management practices to reduce CWD occurrence.
  • Factors contributing to local emergence of CWD.
Management

  • Areas with the highest incidence of CWD.
  • Jurisdictions demonstrating the greatest financial commitment to managing, monitoring, surveying and researching CWD.
  • Efforts to develop comprehensive CWD management policies and programs.
  • Areas showing the greatest risk of an initial occurrence of CWD.
  • Areas responding to new outbreaks of CWD.


Untitled-1 copy-CWD

Who is the guy third from right?

The reason the CWD Research and Management Act has not been funded is because Ukraine and Israel are sucking up billions.

Right now, the National debt is over $34 Trillion.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

What's a few more millions?
 


BrockW

Established Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Posts
194
Likes
102
Points
190
I do agree and have stated that it would be beneficial if there were actual links to the information that is being discussed on these podcasts, without links to these studies the communication breaks down. When looking at this video at face value I get the idea based on the discussion that these gentlemen care about the deer population and that high fence hunting is only going to get more popular in the next decade or two especially when more and more public land or private land is being chopped up by developers. The podcast brings this up and don't deny that it is happening especially when we can see it first hand or read about examples of people thinking that they own land blocking sportsman that access that many have done in the past.
You didn't offer your opinion on the fact that an infected deer was allowed to escape a facility that was supposed to be used for research. You don't find that a little odd, the conspiracy theorist in me thinks that it was intentional to infect and then eradicate thousands of deer. Regardless of how long it took to kill all those deer, doesn't change the fact that it was done and done because of negligence either deliberately or by accident doesn't change the fact that it has changed the very ecosystem that was nearly nonexistent before then.
It’s not just land getting broken up that is reducing hunting opportunities, look next door in MT, out of state billionaires are buying big ranches and closing the public out and keeping the public from accessing public land. So it’s not black and white, privatization is happening at multiple levels.

As to your second paragraph, I don’t have an opinion for that. To presume anything was “allowed” to escape is speculative at best and a conspiracy theory at worst. It’s unknown, it will likely never be known how that all went down. I’m not going to spend much time thinking about it.
 

BrockW

Established Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Posts
194
Likes
102
Points
190
https://www.hoeven.senate.gov/news/...sting-disease-research-and-management-efforts

11.02.22

HOEVEN OUTLINES LEGISLATION TO BOLSTER CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE RESEARCH AND MANAGEMENT EFFORTS​

Senator Meets with ND Game & Fish, Sportsmen & Livestock Groups Ahead of Deer Hunting Season​

BISMARCK, N.D. – Senator John Hoeven today held a meeting with North Dakota Game and Fish officials, including Director Jeb Williams, as well as representatives from sportsmen and livestock groups, to discuss efforts to combat Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD). To this end, Hoeven is sponsoring legislation with Senator Martin Heinrich (D-N.M.) that would provide $70 million per year, split evenly between both research and management of the disease. The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) would administer the funds through cooperative agreements with state and tribal wildlife agencies and agriculture departments.

“Hunting is both a longtime tradition in North Dakota and an important part of our economy. With deer hunting season opening this week, today’s discussion on efforts to address the impact of CWD on both wildlife and deer farmers is timely,” said Hoeven, Ranking Member of the Senate Agriculture Appropriations Committee and a senior member of the Senate Agriculture Committee. “Our ag researchers and Game and Fish officials are working hard to combat this harmful disease, but they need additional help. Our legislation would bolster their efforts by providing needed resources to research and develop better testing methods and management practices, while also empowering states and tribes to implement these solutions.”

Specifically, the legislation authorizes funds for the following priorities:

Research

  • Methods to effectively detect CWD in live cervids and the environment.
  • Testing methods for non-live cervids.
  • Genetic resistance to CWD.
  • Sustainable cervid harvest management practices to reduce CWD occurrence.
  • Factors contributing to local emergence of CWD.
Management

  • Areas with the highest incidence of CWD.
  • Jurisdictions demonstrating the greatest financial commitment to managing, monitoring, surveying and researching CWD.
  • Efforts to develop comprehensive CWD management policies and programs.
  • Areas showing the greatest risk of an initial occurrence of CWD.
  • Areas responding to new outbreaks of CWD.


Untitled-1 copy-CWD

Who is the guy third from right?

The reason the CWD Research and Management Act has not been funded is because Ukraine and Israel are sucking up billions.

Right now, the National debt is over $34 Trillion.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

What's a few more millions?
That’s me! We(NDBHA) worked with Hoeven and his staff to get that bill passed, so we were invited to attend that meeting. In hindsight it was mostly a photo op, as everything was already finalized and moving forward at that point.

I’d like to see some more responsible government spending as well. But when Trump and Biden admins are both proposing/spending 6-7 trillion a year, what’s 17.5 million for publicly owned wildlife?

What’s 17.5 million/6.5 trillion come out to?
.0000000… something percent?

Spending tax money on wildlife and public lands is something I support. Especially when it’s a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of fraction of total spending.
 
Last edited:

Fritz the Cat

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 11, 2015
Posts
5,221
Likes
810
Points
483
That’s me! We(NDBHA) worked with Hoeven and his staff to get that bill passed, so we were invited to attend that meeting. In hindsight it was mostly a photo op, as everything was already finalized and moving forward at that point.
Actually, Hoeven's was the second. Sen. Jon Tester Montana introduced the first $60 million dollar monitoring Bill giving money to agencies.

https://wildlife.org/legislation-would-steer-60m-to-fight-cwd/

Legislators don't write Bills but in Testers case he has an advisory board who help craft legislation.

https://www.tester.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/pr-1333/

Ryan Busse
Ben Lamb
Randy Newberg
Land Tawney


Tester's Bill never got any traction. If a person overlays Testers Bill and Hoevens, they are the same Bill but with research added into Hoeven's.

The agencies love you guys. They want to grow into more government.
 

BrockW

Established Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Posts
194
Likes
102
Points
190
Actually, Hoeven's was the second. Sen. Jon Tester Montana introduced the first $60 million dollar monitoring Bill giving money to agencies.

https://wildlife.org/legislation-would-steer-60m-to-fight-cwd/

Legislators don't write Bills but in Testers case he has an advisory board who help craft legislation.

https://www.tester.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/pr-1333/

Ryan Busse
Ben Lamb
Randy Newberg
Land Tawney


Tester's Bill never got any traction. If a person overlays Testers Bill and Hoevens, they are the same Bill but with research added into Hoeven's.

The agencies love you guys. They want to grow into more government.
During the 2023 session you contacted me via email trying to get me to help you get some funding from the CWD management and research act….now you’re trying to tell me it’s all big bad government?
 


Fritz the Cat

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 11, 2015
Posts
5,221
Likes
810
Points
483
During the 2023 session you contacted me via email trying to get me to help you get some funding from the CWD management and research act….now you’re trying to tell me it’s all big bad government?
No, I told you I shared with Legislators we have the National Agricultural Genotyping Center (a private institution) here in Fargo North Dakota. If money becomes available through the Research and Management Act, why does it always go to the same government funded Universities?

For instance, Cornell. You said you met Krysten Schuler. At Cornell she has been involved with human dimensions or the study of sportsmen's behaviors.

Social-psychological factors influencing risk perceptions of chronic wasting disease on social media​

Alisius D. Leong
,
T. Bruce Lauber
,
William F. Siemer
,
Jeremy Hurst
,
Richard C. Stedman
,
Krysten L. Schuler



ABSTRACT
Chronic wasting disease (CWD) is a prion-based disease that poses an imminent threat to New York State (NYS), but many NYS hunters do not perceive it as a salient issue or follow recommended practices to prevent its spread to NYS. This study sought to identify the social-psychological factors underlying the efficacy of social media interventions to increase risk perceptions of CWD in NYS. We conducted an online survey experiment with 2760 NYS hunters and found that perceived similarity of an information source on social media and hunters’ biospheric values and descriptive norms increased risk perceptions of the threat of CWD to deer and deer hunting in NYS. We also found that biospheric values and knowledge increased risk perceptions of behaviors contributing to the spread of CWD to NYS. We encourage regulators to collaborate with opinion leaders in the hunting community to disseminate CWD prevention messages on social media to maximize message efficacy. (there's a mission for BHA)

Brock, she is also exploring a CWD Stamp:

https://conbio.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/csp2.12779

I just posted a link to all the deer numbers in the USA (post 26). If every sportsman has to purchase a CWD Stamp, that's a lot of economic development for the Universities.

So, what do you think?
 

guywhofishes

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Posts
29,474
Likes
6,565
Points
1,108
Location
Faaargo, ND
No, I told you I shared with Legislators we have the National Agricultural Genotyping Center (a private institution) here in Fargo North Dakota. If money becomes available through the Research and Management Act, why does it always go to the same government funded Universities?

For instance, Cornell. You said you met Krysten Schuler. At Cornell she has been involved with human dimensions or the study of sportsmen's behaviors.

Social-psychological factors influencing risk perceptions of chronic wasting disease on social media​

Alisius D. Leong
,
T. Bruce Lauber
,
William F. Siemer
,
Jeremy Hurst
,
Richard C. Stedman
,
Krysten L. Schuler



ABSTRACT
Chronic wasting disease (CWD) is a prion-based disease that poses an imminent threat to New York State (NYS), but many NYS hunters do not perceive it as a salient issue or follow recommended practices to prevent its spread to NYS. This study sought to identify the social-psychological factors underlying the efficacy of social media interventions to increase risk perceptions of CWD in NYS. We conducted an online survey experiment with 2760 NYS hunters and found that perceived similarity of an information source on social media and hunters’ biospheric values and descriptive norms increased risk perceptions of the threat of CWD to deer and deer hunting in NYS. We also found that biospheric values and knowledge increased risk perceptions of behaviors contributing to the spread of CWD to NYS. We encourage regulators to collaborate with opinion leaders in the hunting community to disseminate CWD prevention messages on social media to maximize message efficacy. (there's a mission for BHA)

Brock, she is also exploring a CWD Stamp:

https://conbio.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/csp2.12779

I just posted a link to all the deer numbers in the USA (post 26). If every sportsman has to purchase a CWD Stamp, that's a lot of economic development for the Universities.

So, what do you think?
Wow, one mystery solved for me.
 

BrockW

Established Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Posts
194
Likes
102
Points
190
No, I told you I shared with Legislators we have the National Agricultural Genotyping Center (a private institution) here in Fargo North Dakota. If money becomes available through the Research and Management Act, why does it always go to the same government funded Universities?

For instance, Cornell. You said you met Krysten Schuler. At Cornell she has been involved with human dimensions or the study of sportsmen's behaviors.

Social-psychological factors influencing risk perceptions of chronic wasting disease on social media​

Alisius D. Leong
,
T. Bruce Lauber
,
William F. Siemer
,
Jeremy Hurst
,
Richard C. Stedman
,
Krysten L. Schuler



ABSTRACT
Chronic wasting disease (CWD) is a prion-based disease that poses an imminent threat to New York State (NYS), but many NYS hunters do not perceive it as a salient issue or follow recommended practices to prevent its spread to NYS. This study sought to identify the social-psychological factors underlying the efficacy of social media interventions to increase risk perceptions of CWD in NYS. We conducted an online survey experiment with 2760 NYS hunters and found that perceived similarity of an information source on social media and hunters’ biospheric values and descriptive norms increased risk perceptions of the threat of CWD to deer and deer hunting in NYS. We also found that biospheric values and knowledge increased risk perceptions of behaviors contributing to the spread of CWD to NYS. We encourage regulators to collaborate with opinion leaders in the hunting community to disseminate CWD prevention messages on social media to maximize message efficacy. (there's a mission for BHA)

Brock, she is also exploring a CWD Stamp:

https://conbio.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/csp2.12779

I just posted a link to all the deer numbers in the USA (post 26). If every sportsman has to purchase a CWD Stamp, that's a lot of economic development for the Universities.

So, what do you think?
It sure sounded to me like you were trying to get a CWD project funded….you even stated “I am sure Jeb Williams and Casey Anderson would readily meet. The Ag Department doesn't want anything to do with this. I am going to need a little time.

But maybe I misunderstood you or you weren’t very clear?

You’re all over the map Fritz, and speaking out of both sides of your mouth. What’s funny is that you go from trying to push for some research project, using federal funds that you now say are “just growing government”, and then back in January you were spreading Dusty’s YouTube video with the Mineral Doctor around as some breakthrough. A video, I might add, that provides exactly ZERO evidence for any of the crazy claims made. Well, that is unless you count some completely unrelated studies on “hypervitaminosis in green iguanas” or “gout in reptiles”.
IMG_7894.jpeg



Another excerpt from the email you sent me.
“I don't hunt deer, bait or eat them. Have plenty of meat from the farmed elk. So why in the hell am I even involved in this? Because of the "Best Management Practices." Nothing in there will turn out well for me.

So, for you, this isn’t about whats best for the resource. This is about what’s best for you, you said it yourself. Right there in black and white.

As for Dr. Schuler’s stamp idea. I don’t know. Haven’t given it much thought. It’s a pity wildlife and public lands don’t get more funding. Whether it’s underfunded wildlife health issues, wildlife research, slashing public land management agency budgets while sending multiple times their annual budget over seas for “diplomacy”, wildlife and wild places could use some money.
 
Last edited:

Fritz the Cat

Founding Member
Founding Member
Joined
May 11, 2015
Posts
5,221
Likes
810
Points
483
It sure sounded to me like you were trying to get a CWD project funded….you even stated “I am sure Jeb Williams and Casey Anderson would readily meet. The Ag Department doesn't want anything to do with this. I am going to need a little time.

But maybe I misunderstood you or you weren’t very clear?

We were talking about HB 1151. The Ag Department didn't want anything to do with it.
You’re all over the map Fritz, and speaking out of both sides of your mouth. What’s funny is that you go from trying to push for some research project, using federal funds that you now say are “just growing government”, and then back in January you were spreading Dusty’s YouTube video with the Mineral Doctor around as some breakthrough. A video, I might add, that provides exactly ZERO evidence for any of the crazy claims made. Well, that is unless you count some completely unrelated studies on “hypervitaminosis in green iguanas” or “gout in reptiles”.
IMG_7894.jpeg



Another excerpt from the email you sent me.
“I don't hunt deer, bait or eat them. Have plenty of meat from the farmed elk. So why in the hell am I even involved in this? Because of the "Best Management Practices." Nothing in there will turn out well for me.

I said that. And I've also said there is nothing in there that will turn out well for sportsman. Way too many rules and regs on the way by the Administrative State without any input from stakeholders.

So, for you, this isn’t about whats best for the resource. This is about what’s best for you, you said it yourself. Right there in black and white.

As for Dr. Schuler’s stamp idea. I don’t know. Haven’t given it much thought. It’s a pity wildlife and public lands don’t get more funding. Whether it’s underfunded wildlife health issues, wildlife research, slashing public land management agency budgets while sending multiple times their annual budget over seas for “diplomacy”, wildlife and wild places could use some money.

Anyway, it has been a better exchange then our first meeting at the Capital after a committee hearing. I extended my hand and ask you if we are having fun yet? You jumped up and rammed your shoulder into mine. I think you are a little hot head.

The wildlife agencies get plenty of funding. But they have way too many surrogate non-profits soliciting for more and more. It's a clanging bell.
 

BrockW

Established Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Posts
194
Likes
102
Points
190
I said that. And I've also said there is nothing in there that will turn out well for sportsman. Way too many rules and regs on the way by the Administrative State without any input from stakeholders.
What part of a sick deer herd is good for sportsmen? The “administrative state” is constitutionally obligated to do what’s best for the resource and the beneficiaries, not what Fritz thinks is best for him or what Dusty thinks is best for people who want to hunt over bait. That’s the lovely thing about our country and the way we do wildlife management. Selfish folks don’t get all the say, but as you allude to, they’re certainly allowed to give their input. No matter how whacky.
Anyway, it has been a better exchange then our first meeting at the Capital after a committee hearing. I extended my hand and ask you if we are having fun yet? You jumped up and rammed your shoulder into mine. I think you are a little hot head.
Haha what a lie! Rammed your shoulder? Right in front of the House ENR committee? I never touched you, but I’m not surprised youd make up such a thing. Consistent with the integrity you’ve shown throughout this process.

I stood up and ignored you and when you followed me and asked me why I wouldn’t shake your hand I said, “you and your buddies have been personally attacking me all session, and now you want to shake my hand? Not a chance, Dwight.”

Do you always lie and play victim like this? Or is that reserved for special occasions?

Haha rammed your shoulder… thats a flop job of Lebron James proportions!
1721877096650.gif
 
Last edited:


lunkerslayer

Founding Member
Founding Member
Thread starter
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Posts
20,813
Likes
4,980
Points
883
Location
Cavalier, ND
It’s not just land getting broken up that is reducing hunting opportunities, look next door in MT, out of state billionaires are buying big ranches and closing the public out and keeping the public from accessing public land. So it’s not black and white, privatization is happening at multiple levels.

As to your second paragraph, I don’t have an opinion for that. To presume anything was “allowed” to escape is speculative at best and a conspiracy theory at worst. It’s unknown, it will likely never be known how that all went down. I’m not going to spend much time thinking about it.
Of course you won't "speculate" on such stupidity but you sure don't have a problem speculating how prions can possibly be transferred in hay to infect other deer in hrc areas, And that's why no body on here will give you any respect that I'm sure you guberment officials need. It's quite amazing that cwd is a mystery that you can't even verify that it is able to be detected in baled hay. Well atleast the peanut gallery will have someone to gush over now.
 

BrockW

Established Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Posts
194
Likes
102
Points
190
Of course you won't "speculate" on such stupidity but you sure don't have a problem speculating how prions can possibly be transferred in hay to infect other deer in hrc areas, And that's why no body on here will give you any respect that I'm sure you guberment officials need. It's quite amazing that cwd is a mystery that you can't even verify that it is able to be detected in baled hay. Well atleast the peanut gallery will have someone to gush over now.
You twist words around better than a woman.

“In many cases, they suspect it's contaminated feed/hay, or some other type of indirect contamination. Sometimes they suspect there was a false negative test or an animal did not have detectable levels of prions in their test, therefore it was missed.”

Somehow you managed to take that statement from my previous post and twist it into me asserting that they’ve proven that was the cause? Huh…you have some talent there.

But on a similar note, the folks at UofM will be releasing some results of a project in the near future where they can detect infectious prions in feed and on feeders! *gasp clutch your pearls!

It’s coming from the same guy that Dusty said had the cure for CWD! (Newsflash, he didn’t have the cure).
 

lunkerslayer

Founding Member
Founding Member
Thread starter
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Posts
20,813
Likes
4,980
Points
883
Location
Cavalier, ND
You twist words around better than a woman.

“In many cases, they suspect it's contaminated feed/hay, or some other type of indirect contamination. Sometimes they suspect there was a false negative test or an animal did not have detectable levels of prions in their test, therefore it was missed.”

Somehow you managed to take that statement from my previous post and twist it into me asserting that they’ve proven that was the cause? Huh…you have some talent there.

But on a similar note, the folks at UofM will be releasing some results of a project in the near future where they can detect infectious prions in feed and on feeders! *gasp clutch your pearls!

It’s coming from the same guy that Dusty said had the cure for CWD! (Newsflash, he didn’t have the cure).
How's you are full of shit and you are not a friend of sportsman.
 

BrockW

Established Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Posts
194
Likes
102
Points
190
How's you are full of shit and you are not a friend of sportsman.
If I threaten fellow North Dakotans, perpetuates lies and make up conspiracy theories, will that put me in the good graces of you and these “sportsmen”?

If so, I’m not interested. I prefer to operate on facts, integrity and doing right by our public resources. You guys can threaten me, lie about me, call me names all you want. It makes no difference to me.
 


Recent Posts

Friends of NDA

Top Posters of the Month

  • This month: 289
  • This month: 133
  • This month: 117
  • This month: 92
  • This month: 84
  • This month: 73
  • This month: 70
  • This month: 64
  • This month: 61
  • This month: 58
Top Bottom