Mtn Climber~

[deleted member]

I think the 911 dispatcher failed at her job. She clearly isn't aware of the resources available or possibly even her immediate surroundings. When someone tells you they took a 600 foot tumble, you should scramble your resources or least ask the caller what they need. Negligence for sure. What's it worth? Hard call. But, the $10 million number is likely a calculation of potential lifetime earnings lost plus pain and suffering. Nobody sues for $1. Good luck finding a firm that charges $500/hour to take on a $1 case. That's plain silly.

 

[JMF]

It's more or less for my wife's peace of mind. However there is no call center with SPOT, you push the button and they send a chopper and hope your insurance will cover it. And your exactly right, I know the risks and undertand it may be difficult for even a chopper to pick me up out of the timber.

 

[rapala_09]

But thats just it they didn't follow procedure or at least not the correct one because they tried to hand it off to a ski resort that has nothing to do with it. So if you take a tumble out in the hills south of Mandan even though you're in the "Huff Hills" it's not the ski resorts job to have to come get you. The biggest problem was 911 passing on their job to the ski resort to the point the hikers had to Google that number only to here what they already knew that it was well outside their area. Amount of time that the guard guys took to get their helicopter in the air is really a non-issue here cuz that's going to take that long no matter what but it's the nearly two hours between the initial phone call and when the helicopters were finally informed and dispatched where people are getting a little upset by.

Yes, this is a good point. and I agree with you here.

 

[Achucker]

It's more or less for my wife's peace of mind. However there is no call center with SPOT, you push the button and they send a chopper and hope your insurance will cover it. And your exactly right, I know the risks and undertand it may be difficult for even a chopper to pick me up out of the timber.

But your wife expects them to respond in a quick manner. If the don't and you die as a result of there "miscommunication" what do you think her reasonable reaction should be? Just say oh well he knew the risks. And move on with life. Hopefully you had enough life insurance that would cover taking care of her and your kids for the rest of her life.

This is nothing personal towards you as an individual. I just want to make a point that we all are smart enough to know the risks we take but we all expect someone to be there if things go bad to help us out. If they are not due to their negligence shouldn't they be held accountable to some degree?

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/post-nation/wp/2018/04/19/911-dispatcher-jailed-houston-woman-hung-up-on-thousands-of-callers/

Maybe this lady is wrongfully convicted. She has a right to not want to talk!!:::

 

[luvcatchingbass]

So let's throw this hypothetical situation out there. So your boating on Lake Sakakawea and your boat broke down and you're taking on a little water you call 911 and you tell them you're in trouble out there but your boat may not sink it's just definitely having some issues and you figure you might want to give them a heads up that there might be a problem. They then pass you off to the corp of Engineers since it's their Lake even though you told them that's not what they do. You call back not too much later telling them that the boats definitely starting to have some problems and you could really use some help! Then you have to call back again a couple hours later wondering where the hell they are telling them that the boats really in trouble now and your waiting on them. Sometime around this point the 911 operator decides that hey maybe somebody better get on this and finally dispatches the request on to the proper people instead of passing it back and forth with corp. Unfortunately by the time they arrive the boat is sunk and due to cold water temperature you're dead.... Gee I wonder if your family might not be thinking about a lawsuit do to their incompetence since if they would have acted the way they're trained to be there is an extremely high likelihood that you would still be alive. Sure you were the one that put yourself out there but they have a job to do and it is in fact their job and when they like anyone else F it up that bad there's going to be some legal consequences you can bank on it.

Sooooooo backcountry Mountain sports and boating on a big lake are the same, got it.

 

[JMF]

But your wife expects them to respond in a quick manner. If the don't and you die as a result of there "miscommunication" what do you think her reasonable reaction should be? Just say oh well he knew the risks. And move on with life. Hopefully you had enough life insurance that would cover taking care of her and your kids for the rest of her life.

This is nothing personal towards you as an individual. I just want to make a point that we all are smart enough to know the risks we take but we all expect someone to be there if things go bad to help us out. If they are not due to their negligence shouldn't they be held accountable to some degree?

If all of my ducks weren't in a row I wouldn't go, my family will be well taken care of if something happens to me. It's nice knowing somebody should be on their way to help if I should need it, but there are no guarantees. I doubt you will find anything that says a first responder must respond within X amount of time. I would never count on or expect the police to protect my family in my own home, I completely respect and appreciate what they do, but where I live it's not reasonable to expect them to get there quickly. So I take measures to protect them myself, and if I'm not home I pity the fool that puts my wife in a bad mood ;:;rofl. We also accept the fact, that because of where we chose to live, the house will be burnt to the ground before a fire department gets anywhere near it.

 

[dean nelson]

If all of my ducks weren't in a row I wouldn't go, my family will be well taken care of if something happens to me. It's nice knowing somebody should be on their way to help if I should need it, but there are no guarantees. I doubt you will find anything that says a first responder must respond within X amount of time. I would never count on or expect the police to protect my family in my own home, I completely respect and appreciate what they do, but where I live it's not reasonable to expect them to get there quickly. So I take measures to protect them myself, and if I'm not home I pity the fool that puts my wife in a bad mood ;:;rofl. We also accept the fact, that because of where we chose to live, the house will be burnt to the ground before a fire department gets anywhere near it.

It doesn't matter if your prepared for it what matters is how they handle it once the ball is in their court. Rescuing people is in fact their job and in this case they didn't do it overly great job of it! And it's not as if this is a rare event that's never happened before, they have to go up on Mount Hood save people all the time. Hell people getting in trouble up there happens so often it has it's own damn Wikipedia page. It's also where this famous little shindig went down.

https://youtu.be/IEbMJuyRnHc

 

[JMF]

So then shouldn't the families of the helicopter crew be able to sue the climbers and their families? Or do you think because they knew what they were getting themselves into and the fact that it's their job exempts them? Maybe they should sue the national park because they allow people to climb such a dangerous mountain. How much hand holding do you think we need? The response or actions of the dispatcher doesn't change the fact that he chose to put himself in a dangerous situation. If anybody goes into any dangerous situation with the expectation that somebody else will be there to save their ass at a moments notice, they are stupid.

 

[dean nelson]

Answer this question what's their job? Unless theres ulterior reasons such as bad weather they don't get to choose when and where they do their job and the damn dispatcher never gets to choose it's their job just to pass the information on and get the ball rolling. So responsibilities are the same whether it's a car crash on the highway or guy falling off a cliff and to wait nearly two hours to take the first action is going to find you under extreme is scrutiny every time and deservedly so.

 

[JMF]

You answer mine, then I will answer yours.

 

[dean nelson]

Ask a legitimate question not one that exist in an alternative universe. If you call the fire department and they don't send a truck for 2 hours is not the same thing is a firefighter getting killed on the job at your house even if you caused the fire.

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Sooooooo backcountry Mountain sports and boating on a big lake are the same, got it.

It's called an analogy I would suggest looking up in the dictionary under you know analogies!

 

[Achucker]

What happens if rescue personal gets hurt of killed while on a rescue mission should their family be able to sue the injured party or their estate?

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This has a portion of the 911 calls the other link I was trying to post has more of the calls but does not want to load

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsyBofVfQfg

So then shouldn't the families of the helicopter crew be able to sue the climbers and their families? Or do you think because they knew what they were getting themselves into and the fact that it's their job exempts them? Maybe they should sue the national park because they allow people to climb such a dangerous mountain. How much hand holding do you think we need? The response or actions of the dispatcher doesn't change the fact that he chose to put himself in a dangerous situation. If anybody goes into any dangerous situation with the expectation that somebody else will be there to save their ass at a moments notice, they are stupid.

Let's just get rid of all first responders and police if that's the attitude we should all have. I don't think the family is suing because the park allowed him up there or that he got hurt and died as they were saving him the are suing because the didn't do their job which is to respond as quickly as the can to allow the best chance of survival.

 

[JMF]

Ask a legitimate question not one that exist in an alternative universe. If you call the fire department and they don't send a truck for 2 hours is not the same thing is a firefighter getting killed on the job at your house even if you caused the fire.

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It's called an analogy I would suggest looking up in the dictionary under you know analogies!

WTH kind of alternative universe are you talking about? How is your "analogy" on the same page, but my question somehow in a different universe? There is a Huge difference between a guy out boating and a guy climbing a mountain known for being dangerous. Should the dispatcher be fired? Absolutely, no doubt mistakes were made, but there is no way in hell us taxpayers should have to pay the family 10 million dollars. Anybody that's been around more than a day knows that every profession has some incompetence and at least a few idiots.

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Let's just get rid of all first responders and police if that's the attitude we should all have. I don't think the family is suing because the park allowed him up there or that he got hurt and died as they were saving him the are suing because the didn't do their job which is to respond as quickly as the can to allow the best chance of survival.

I never said that, first responders are invaluable. But don't put yourself on a dangerous mountain and expect them to be there immediately. Like I said in my previous post, the dispatcher should be fired. Do you really think you (assuming you pay taxes) should pay the family $10 million?

 

[dean nelson]

The point is simply this if they couldn't get to him because of the terrain or the weather or any other natural variable that he put in the way I'd be like well f*** him it's his fault. But in the end the variable that got in the way was human-caused and on the side of the First Responders and that is going to lead to a lawsuit every time. Is it worth ten million bucks I guess the law will decide that but in the end a man is dead that very likely would not have died had they handle their job right! It's simply boils down to it doesn't matter where he was because that's not what stop the First Responders it was piss poor handling by 911. Seriously has anyone ever fallen 600 feet off of anything and not needed EMTs I don't really give a s*** how nonchalant the first call was.

 

[JMF]

My point is if he had stayed on the couch he'd also still be alive. And you're right his death was human caused, he climbed the side of a dangerous fricken mountain. He put the possibility of death into his own hands, I do the same every time I go out west. Difference is I expect a rescue to take longer than if I was in town, so I try to prepare for that and realize I might die before they get to me. The problem with our society is everybody thinks it's somebody else's fault or somebody else should pay. How about we all take responsibility for our actions? But I guess it's easier to blame the idiots for not saving us sooner, after all the family won't be able to retire from his death if they don't sue. I'd support them if they used this tragedy to bring awareness to the importance of more/proper training for 911 dispatchers.

 

[Achucker]

WTH kind of alternative universe are you talking about? How is your "analogy" on the same page, but my question somehow in a different universe? There is a Huge difference between a guy out boating and a guy climbing a mountain known for being dangerous. Should the dispatcher be fired? Absolutely, no doubt mistakes were made, but there is no way in hell us taxpayers should have to pay the family 10 million dollars. Anybody that's been around more than a day knows that every profession has some incompetence and at least a few idiots.

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I never said that, first responders are invaluable. But don't put yourself on a dangerous mountain and expect them to be there immediately. Like I said in my previous post, the dispatcher should be fired. Do you really think you (assuming you pay taxes) should pay the family $10 million?

So you just want some to be there as soon as they can if your bleeding out but if they don't because they didn't follow protocol....oh well I understand I should take care of myself. Yes I do pay taxes and when I pay for a service I expect it to be done right. I am not advocating the $10 million the are suing for I just think someone should be held accountable.

 

[JMF]

So you just want some to be there as soon as they can if your bleeding out but if they don't because they didn't follow protocol....oh well I understand I should take care of myself. Yes I do pay taxes and when I pay for a service I expect it to be done right. I am not advocating the $10 million the are suing for I just think someone should be held accountable.

That's exactly what I'm saying. I have taken first aid classes, I have and know how to use a tourniquet. I never pass on an opportunity to learn more about saving my ass in the wilderness. I expect any responsible adult that puts themselves in a similar situation to do the same.

This post was started because of the ridiculous $10 million amount. Nobody has said the dispatchers didn't drop the ball.

 

[Achucker]

I've said in previous I think the 10 mil is ridiculous but this sheds light on the actions of the first responders. It seems to me that you like the idea of first responders and wouldn't mind if the show up if you needed them. But you would call just to give your wife the peace of mind. But your tough enough and don't need anyone's help. After all you knew the risks. And as I've said before if everyone had the attitude like this then there would be no need for first responders. We could save a ton in taxes and the world would be rid of all the adventure seeking idiots.

 

[Obi-Wan]

Let's just get rid of all first responders and police if that's the attitude we should all have. I don't think the family is suing because the park allowed him up there or that he got hurt and died as they were saving him the are suing because the didn't do their job which is to respond as quickly as the can to allow the best chance of survival.

Why isn't the Oregon Army National Guard included in the lawsuit it took them nearly 3 hrs after they received the call?

"the Oregon Office of Emergency Management called the Oregon Army National Guard at 12:29 p.m. and a helicopter arrived at 3:11 p.m., the suit states."

 

[Achucker]

Can't answer without all information but my guess would be they followed protocol. They got the call at 12:29 and got the chopper fueled and pilot and crew in the air. They didn't have to get another call from another person a couple hours later.