SB 2315 -Everything's Posted Bill

[scrotcaster]

Did they vote on this, this morning? or just hear testimony?

 

[SLE]

Just the Ag Committee Meeting

 

[fullrut]

I actually know someone who got picked up on a bike. Guy in mid 50's, lives a half a mile out of a small town on a paved highway. One nice summer evening he rode to town had a few beers and was riding home and got arrested. He was self employed, so the rest of the summer with no drivers license really hurt him. He'll forever hold a grudge against the sheriff's department. He says he may have gotten a little lippy because he was so surprised for getting harassed on a bicycle.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Wow, you got a response from Larson? Ive emailed her several times on different topics and Ive never heard a peep from her...

E-mailed my Senator and reps in District 30 on Jan 20. Received a call back within two hours from Senator Diane Larson of District 30. Have not had any response from Representatives Nathe / Bosch (Dist 30) or Rep Vigesaa (District 23) where we own some ag property. I sincerely appreciated Senator Larson's prompt response and willingness to engage in conversation relating to this and other pending bills. Kudos to her for taking time to promptly respond!! I do not recall much discussion relating the the Fiscal note that is attached to this bill.
https://www.legis.nd.gov/assembly/66-2019/fiscal-notes/19-0896-01000-fn.pdf

 

[scrotcaster]

https://www.kfyrtv.com/content/news...erty-rights-to-farmers-hunters-504870551.html

 

[Retired Educator]

It aggravates me when posting is considered a property owners rights. There is absolutely nothing in the current law that says any landowner does not have the right to use their land as they wish. There might be some ASCS or other farm programs that have some rules. I know that landowners have had problems with theft and vandalism but to me that is a completely different ballgame. No posting rules will not stop idiots from being idiots.

I live in town and it's been brought up, what would you do if someone was walking across your yard. I'm pretty sure if they do they have not broken any laws. If so, the meter reader is guilty of trespassing every month. The UPS or FedEx driver better not deliver any more packages without permission. There are those who are correct that no one is hunting in my backyard, True, but that is because of the no shooting rules within 440yds of an occupied building. Same rule applies in the country.

Some day the current rules will change but quit calling it what it's not.

 

[eyexer]

Taking a shit pile of hunters out of the country will probably allow for more theft and vandalism. They will know there is far less of a chance to be seen by anybody.

 

[guywhofishes]

https://www.kfyrtv.com/content/news...erty-rights-to-farmers-hunters-504870551.html

riveting article!

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I actually know someone who got picked up on a bike. Guy in mid 50's, lives a half a mile out of a small town on a paved highway. One nice summer evening he rode to town had a few beers and was riding home and got arrested. He was self employed, so the rest of the summer with no drivers license really hurt him. He'll forever hold a grudge against the sheriff's department. He says he may have gotten a little lippy because he was so surprised for getting harassed on a bicycle.

whaaaat... a drunk got lippy? fake news

 

[Boondoggle]

I see this bill as another door closing for the sportsman and another door opening up for the anti's. I have no proof but I would have to think the likes of peta and hsus do not frown on legislation like this. Am I out of line thinking like this?

I think you are accurate.

Bear with me, this is my first post. I actually think SB 2315 has very little to do with hunting access, and everything to do with privacy of landowners, even at the expense of the present law (that works) and the longstanding hunting traditions established in ND. We as sportsmen are the ones that will pay the price in a debate between us vs them (state/agriculture/anti groups). We are now facing an uphill battle, and let me tell you what I think is behind what we are facing. My new guy opinion.

Back in 2012 the citizens of ND overwhelmingly defeated Measure 5 "North Dakota Prevention of Animal Cruelty Initiative" by an approx. 2/3 NO vote. Our legislators, in their infinite wisdom and feelings towards Fluffy the dog/cat/horse/cow, decided they knew better than the citizens, or were being paid for by the anti's. The legislators in the 2013 session (just a few months after the citizens rejected Measure 5) passed a law for the treatment of animals that resembled the words of the measure the citizens rejected, ND Century Code Chapter 36-21.2 if anyone is interested. Anyway, there is language in that law that includes animal seizures if an animal owner is suspected of abuse, neglect or cruelty. If you're not feeding or sheltering your animal "appropriately", your animal can be seized. If you're not seeking medical attention, your animal can be seized. Nobody wants to see Fluffy suffering so it sounds like a good law right? There are serious criminal charges (felonies) on the line without due process, they take your animals and you have to prove your innocence. A person accused of abusing a child in ND has more rights and oversight than a person accused of neglecting or abusing an animal. Same felony charges.

Fast forward to the spring of 2017 and here we go, we have an animal cruelty case posted all over the news. A horse rancher from Gladstone, ND charged with multiple felony cruelty and misdemeanor neglects for a herd of his horses. The Stark County sheriff showed up without notice, took pictures of his horses and property, and before you knew it a fleet of horse trailers were ready to haul off the horses for medical attention/adoption/sale. There's so much to that story that I think it's best left for you to read up on.

Thanks to the legislators in 2013 we have a bad animal cruelty law, and now an agriculture community that is raising the middle finger at the legislators (and the hunting community) saying stay off my lawn, don't come hauling away my animals, my land is posted until I give you permission. Period. In other words, I don't want my animals seized and my financial future ruined because someone (maybe a hunter) on or near my property might think my dog/cat/horse/cow is on the skinny side. Last summer I emailed 5 legislators in ND with comments and suggestions to revise the animal treatment chapter this session. None of the legislators wanted to touch it.

The ag community isn't going to sit back and tolerate the government entering their property without permission, taking pictures and seizing their assets/animals. HB 1503 was introduced this session to provide a penalty for observing, recording and photographing wildlife on private property without permission. HB 1290 was introduced to include language pertaining to law enforcement entry onto private land and what can be used as evidence in court.

As a feel-good measure SB 2315 provides for an opt-in database for land open to hunting. We already have the PLOTS program. Will PLOTS go away if this database is created? Without an incentive I predict very low participation in the opt-in database, and maybe even a dead PLOTS program. Hunting in ND could look very different in the future. Many people, including myself, will find another hobby.

To put a wrap on my opinions, ask members in the ag community, your legislators, or anyone with decision making power if the animal seizure language in Chapter 36-21.2 Treatment of Animals has any bearing on their position regarding SB 2315. I'm trying to put the pieces together, and it appears to me the animal laws might be driving the posted land effort. If so, we can thank the legislators for all of this.

 

[eyexer]

This is why we have the initiated measure option here. To circumvent the legislature when their heads get stuck up their asses. It's time to do that. Eliminate the animal cruelty law and vote to prevent any trespass laws like the one being proposed.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

This is why we have the initiated measure option here. To circumvent the legislature when their heads get stuck up their asses. It's time to do that. Eliminate the animal cruelty law and vote to prevent any trespass laws like the one being proposed.

Dammit Eye, some days I just don't know about you. Karen Thunshell was the lead for the Humane Society of the United States right here in ND. She started a felony animal cruelty initiated measure or Measure 5. The livestock producers went to the public and said if you will defeat this measure we will address felony animal cruelty in the legislature. Karen Thunshell told the public they were only concerned about cats dogs and horses.

Karen didn't tell people that she and her girlfriends had collected signatures for the fair chase committee in 2008 and 2010 to ban high fence hunting. What the Farmed Elk guys did was have a young girl contact Karen and ask if she could help. Karen put her in an address book with all her girl friends. When Karen send out a message, it came to us. Whenever the fair chase committee emailed her, she forwarded to her address book which we intercepted. After all the signatures were turned into the Secretary of States Office it was simple to look at the signature of the circulator of each petition and compare those names to the names in Karen Thunshell's address book. Karen and her girl friends collected 2300. The fair chase committee needed those to make the count.

Today Boondoogle made a great first post. He was responding to wstnodak who said peta and hsus like this kind of legislation that divides us. Someone actually mentioned this division today during the hearing for 2315. The elitist fair chasers were there today testifying. I wonder if they felt small?

https://nodakangler.com/forums/showthread.php?13340-SB-2315-Ag-Committee-Recap

 

[Bed Wetter]

WY has lots of public land and similar gun rights. I bet they’re looking for new residents. Maybe you whiners should just move.;:;boohoo

 

[PrairieGhost]

WY has lots of public land and similar gun rights. I bet they’re looking for new residents. Maybe you whiners should just move.;:;boohoo

I don't pay attention to what people may be like landowners or not. I have noticed over the time we have been here that I think like you most of the time especially on political things. However, I guess now that you are a landowner and I still have the same respect for you. I especially enjoy your hunting and firearms perspective. However please don't tell people who support you to leave the state. My family has been here since the 1870's and I feel tied to this area. I intend to be buried here, not driven to a strange land. Please rethink, and leave the trash talk to Fritz.

 

[SLE]

WY has lots of public land and similar gun rights. I bet they’re looking for new residents. Maybe you whiners should just move.;:;boohoo

or maybe we should quit supporting all the AG programs and government welfare that have allowed so may producers to stay alive, thrive, and continue to purchase more land! Be careful of the stones you throw when you live in a glass house......

 

[Fritz the Cat]

or maybe we should quit supporting all the AG programs and government welfare that have allowed so may producers to stay alive, thrive, and continue to purchase more land! Be careful of the stones you throw when you live in a glass house......

Not this shit again.

 

[SLE]

Hey, I didn’t start the smarts ass comments.......

 

[Obi-Wan]

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Not this shit again.

thats the exact same thing we say every two years when the posting law comes up

 

[eyexer]

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thats the exact same thing we say every two years when the posting law comes up

If this measure passes this is certainly something we need to start hammering on. If it takes a bypass of our legislature to impose property taxes on farmers like the rest of us so be it. It will be gloves off time and hardball. They should be careful what they wish for.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Obi,

funny you would post the Property Tax Exemption. City folk pay on their house, country folk pay on their land. Unless someone lives in the country but works in town. 51% of income reported has to come from the farm and that's gross off farm income compared to net farm.

I farmed and worked at a coal mine. So I paid on house and land forever. But then I quit the coal mine so went over to the treasurers office to let them know. Was informed the bar had been raised, now have a three look back or 3 year average. So I waited the three years. The bar was lifted again saying not more than $40,000 off farm income. I have a pension, health benefit and my wife as a janitor in town. I'm still paying both.

Now they passed a law farmers must prove their income every year. Take your 1040 to the tax assessors office so that it can be proved. Right now I believe there is some clean up in a Bill because county office personnel shouldn't be looking at everyone's income. My county got around that by hiring an attorney to look at the 1040.

Senator Dwight Cook thinks all farmers should have to pay on their house and their land. He likes these little thresholds that take little bites out of a farmers backside one increment at a time.

Dotzenrod has a Bill that would be more simple saying if 2/3rd's of income is derived from the farm then by definition you are a farmer. Essentially getting rid of all these thresholds that muddy up tax code. I believe Cook is going to try to squash Dotzenrod's Bill.

 

[Trip McNeely]

And how great would it be to have help in your corner to fend off the cooks of the world fritz...... a large percentage of north dakotans who have in the past carried a symbiotic alliance and sometimes sympathic view with the farm community..... i dont know, possibly like sportsmen and women perhaps...........

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You cant slap the face of one group and turn around and cry foul........