Shooting bag/rifle rest?

[Norske]

I learned years ago that any rifle with recoil bounces off front sandbags. My 30-06 shot 3" higher at 100 yards off a sandbag than if I hand held it. My 338WinMag differed by 6" at 100 yards. The rifles didn't bounce off a rolled up sleeping bag, so I used that with a sand filled toe bag. Bipods were similar to sand bags, except they seldom bounce consistently off a hard surface. I see the same thing at RRRMC's indoor range. They work well on soft dirt or with a rifle with a fully-floated barrel.

 

[Kurtr]

wouldnt driving the rifle properly negate that problem?

 

[SupressYourself]

IMO, if you're barrel ain't floating, you're doing it wrong.
Although my piston-driven AR doesn't truly float by design and it drives tacks off of any surface.

 

[PrairieGhost]

wouldnt driving the rifle properly negate that problem?

Not really. You can forward load the bipod until the legs nearly bend and it will compensate some, but only some. Freefloat helps some, but that doesn't cure it all either. Some rifles work better freefloated, and others will need forend pressure to stabilize. It's all up to individual rifles. One of my rifles shoots 1/2 inch high with the suppressor off. Another shoots 3 inches high with the suppressor off.

It's vibration and rebound. I tried cutting a small rubber ball in half and attaching to the bipod legs. Helped, but it was clumsy. It did hold the bipod up in snow. The best thing I have found for using my bipod of very hard ground is the small tubular closed cell foam for around cold water pipes. Cut off three inches and use a zip strip to make a very tight wasp like waist in the center. Slip it on your bipod and your bipod has something soft between hard surface and it's leg. You will loose slight stability if you make the gap between ground and leg to long.

Everyone finds their own solution, because we all have different rifles. Different stalks, different bipods, different barrel thickness and steal resulting in different barrel harmonics. like Norsk mentioned I have always shot lower offhand, and off soft surfaces. It's another reason I like less dense material in a sandbag. Some people use kitty litter, but I like something that doesn't soak up water. Next I will try the 6mm BB's used in airsoft guns. Light and slippery against each other so that should negate a hard ground affect.

The rifles shoot lower with the suppressor because a rifle actually is raised very very slightly by recoil before the bullet can exit the bore. It's more evident in heavy bullets from slow cartidges. Try a 125 gr out of a light weight 30-06, then try a 180 gr out of the same rifle offhand at 100 yards. Everything says the 125 is flatter and will hit higher. Not so.

 

[svnmag]

wouldnt driving the rifle properly negate that problem?

To get the best groups from Baby I sort of just support her like shooting a springer air gun ( a bit more snug). I used to squeeze the juice out of her.

 

[Kurtr]

I would disagree as it is physics the rifle will recoil strait backward here is a video. frank has a video shooting a short bbl 338 lapua no break and not suppressed to prove the point also.

 

[Enslow]

IMO, if you're barrel ain't floating, you're doing it wrong.
Although my piston-driven AR doesn't truly float by design and it drives tacks off of any surface.

I have two rifles that are full length bedded. They shoot awesome.

 

[svnmag]

If you're disagreeing with me Kurtie Lurtie I believe it's a harmonics issue.

 

[Kurtr]

I am disagreeing that the bbl is flipping up for any other reason than the recoil of the rifle is not being managed right. your squeezing or not squeezing has nothing to do with harmonics and more to do with the inputs you are putting on the rifle. Its like the goofs that put that rubber blob on their bbl and think it does any thing other than look gay.

 

[PrairieGhost]

I would disagree as it is physics the rifle will recoil strait backward here is a video.

It's all physics from the velocity and weight of the recoil to the direction of recoil dependent on the platform as he mentions in the video. I can't see .001 inch lift with my eyes, but that is one inch high at 100 yards. I noticed his recoil on the wood was between the support beams. Hard, but forgiving surface.

To get no lift the stock would have to be in perfect line with the bore. If the stock was higher than the bore there would be downward forces exerted, it the butt of the stock is lower there are upward forces exerted in direct proportion. There is no getting around the laws of physics. Some very good shooters get there through experience, but don't understand the physics. I remember when the old Remington model 788 come out. It was intended to be an economic rifle, but it turned out to be the most accurate rifle out of the box at the time. People still search out model 788's. No one understood why until a schooting buff who was also a scientist explained it. The barrel was stiffer resulting in the harmonics producing less barrel whip. Also, the stiff fireing pin spring resulted in faster lock time. Much the same reason I have a titanium fireing pin in my model 1911. It's all physics. If you have an adjustable butt plate on your rifle shoot a group with it adjusted all the way up, and another group with it adjusted all the way down. Your group will be noticeably larger with your but plate adjusted down. You can not defy the laws of physics.

 

[Enslow]

I am disagreeing that the bbl is flipping up for any other reason than the recoil of the rifle is not being managed right. your squeezing or not squeezing has nothing to do with harmonics and more to do with the inputs you are putting on the rifle. Its like the goofs that put that rubber blob on their bbl and think it does any thing other than look gay.

Some rifles do have terrible muzzle flop. I had a kimber montana that would damn near jump out of the sandbags. I couldnt shoot very well with it due to that.

 

[svnmag]

I can stop it but then the group suffers. I'm not shooting a 16in bull. It's a 24in light contour which I'm sure has plenty of whip.

 

[Enslow]

Thats why full length bedding works so well on light contour barrels.

 

[SDMF]

Can't say I've ever experienced POI shift via any manner of stand-alone front rest/bag combination. I typically run whatever front rest I'm using roughly under the chamber/recoil lug. Rarely do I run out near the end of the forend. I always ensure that the front sling stud isn't plowing into my front rest during recoil. Lastly, under no circumstances do I shoot with the bbl resting on the front rest, whatever that may be. Bedding runs the gamut from proudly free to tightly clenched with slight upward pressure along the whole channel.

I have seen POI shift via bi-pod as well as the cradle type systems IE. Lead Sled and the like.

 

[svnmag]

I may look into it. Right now I'm pretty happy with my float and action bed.

On a side note, I believe I became a better rifle shot after owning a springer and drove myself half effing mad trying to get a quarter size group at 25. Lots of reading, shooting and different pellets. Never exceeded the quarter even with a good airgun scope.

- - - Updated - - -

Per usual I believe SD knows damn right. That's exactly how I shoot from the bench.

 

[SDMF]

More recoil and/or less weight also require much more concentration upon complete replication of technique/form. The concentration and attention to detail required as recoil increases and/or weight decreases is exponential, not linear.

IE, any numbskull with a semi-thawed booger-hook can shoot my ~10# Remington Varmint in 223 into knots. The ~7# 7-08 Mountain rifle is capable of shooting as well or better but requires quite a bit more attention to detail to make it so. The sub 6.5# 243 or 7-08 Montana's require substantially more attention to repetitive detail though both are absolutely just as accurate as the 1st mentioned 10# 223.

 

[Kurtr]

Can't say I've ever experienced POI shift via any manner of stand-alone front rest/bag combination. I typically run whatever front rest I'm using roughly under the chamber/recoil lug. Rarely do I run out near the end of the forend. I always ensure that the front sling stud isn't plowing into my front rest during recoil. Lastly, under no circumstances do I shoot with the bbl resting on the front rest, whatever that may be. Bedding runs the gamut from proudly free to tightly clenched with slight upward pressure along the whole channel.

I have seen POI shift via bi-pod as well as the cradle type systems IE. Lead Sled and the like.

I have seen shift off bipod to, that was due to a cheap stock and it flexing. Now with a stock with no flex I get no poi change from bipod to sand bag to pack. Off hand there is a change but that has nothing to do with rifle and everything on the shooter(me). I used a lead sled once thought shit was all messed up took it out of that piece of shit and all was well

 

[svnmag]

And again, damn right. You must commit to a follow through even when you know the gun is going to jump off the rest. As I've said many times before, a LimbSaver slip on is wonderful for bench shooting in light clothing. Your normal hunting garb will compensate to the extra length or for this year, keep it attached. Plugs, muffs and the pad equate to zero unpleasantness. Always plug your offside ear when hunting.

 

[SDMF]

a LimbSaver slip on is wonderful for bench shooting in light clothing

Past recoil shield.

 

[Enslow]

When i shoot over my backpack i have noticed my shooting improves when i have a tender yet firm grip on the forearm of the gun. Just sayin...