Subsonic loads?

[Lycanthrope]

Im thinking about trying to harvest a deer using my 308 win using a subsonic load this year, just for funzies... Anyone load subsonic for 30 caliber rifles?

I ordered these bullets specific for this purpose and plan to use blue dot powder because I have it on hand.

 

[Lycanthrope]

I calculated a drop chart based upon the above bullet.

 

[Tymurrey]

I have never used those bullets before so not much to add. I did harvest a deer and an antelope one year with my .300 blk and 220gr sierra matchkings subsonic. I would not recommend. The bullet did not expand on either, the damage was mainly due to the bullet tumbling from what i can tell. They both expired reasonably quick but both shots were through the vitals and i treated it like archery hunting and gave them time to expire and not be pushed.

 

[SupressYourself]

I loaded Siearra 220's at about 1050 fps for a 300 Blackout, and it is a lot of fun to shoot, but I would never try it on game. Those bullets look like you could peel back the pedals with a pliers, so probably a good fit, but I would try them against milk jugs or something first.
Also, I hope you plan on being close, or really in tune with your range finder and drops. 17.5 MOA to 200 yards is crazy...

 

[Lycanthrope]

I loaded Siearra 220's at about 1050 fps for a 300 Blackout, and it is a lot of fun to shoot, but I would never try it on game. Those bullets look like you could peel back the pedals with a pliers, so probably a good fit, but I would try them against milk jugs or something first.
Also, I hope you plan on being close, or really in tune with your range finder and drops. 17.5 MOA to 200 yards is crazy...

I might test them on pumpkins filled with water, those are always fun! Id keep shots to 150 yards or less probably...

 

[LBrandt]

I loaded Siearra 220's at about 1050 fps for a 300 Blackout, and it is a lot of fun to shoot, but I would never try it on game. Those bullets look like you could peel back the pedals with a pliers, so probably a good fit, but I would try them against milk jugs or something first.
Also, I hope you plan on being close, or really in tune with your range finder and drops. 17.5 MOA to 200 yards is crazy...

On the right day you could see them go through the air. LB

 

[Lycanthrope]

Unfortunately I didnt think about bullet stability when I ordered these bullets and my 1/10 twist 308 likely wont stabilize the bullets I ordered at subsonic speeds. According to AI I should aim for about 1300fps to stabilize them out to 200 yards. Ill shoot suppressed so it will still be fairly quiet. Here is some load data AI generated for me:
Initial Load Development for .308 Win with 200 gr Copper Bullet and Blue DotBlue Dot (Alliant) is a suitable choice for reduced-velocity loads in .308 Winchester due to its progressive burn rate, which helps maintain consistent ignition in underfilled cases (critical for ~1,300 fps to avoid erratic pressures or stuck bullets). However, no official published load data exists from Hodgdon/Alliant for this exact combination (200 gr bullet, Blue Dot)—their manuals focus Blue Dot on pistol/revolver loads or lighter rifle bullets. The recommendations below are extrapolated from user-reported data, forums (e.g., AfricaHunting, The High Road, Accurate Shooter), and similar reduced loads with heavy bullets (180-220 gr) in .308 Win. These are starting points only—treat as experimental and use at your own risk. Always prioritize safety: Start low, work up in 0.3-0.5 gr increments, check for pressure signs (e.g., flattened primers, sticky extraction), and use a chronograph to verify velocity.Estimated Powder Charge Range

• Starting Charge: 13.0 grains (conservative; ~1,100-1,200 fps expected, based on Red Dot analogs and Blue Dot's ~20-30% slower burn).
• Test Range: 13.0 - 16.0 grains (in 0.5 gr steps: 13.0, 13.5, 14.0, 14.5, 15.0, 15.5, 16.0). This should bracket ~1,200-1,500 fps, allowing you to fine-tune to 1,300 fps.
• Maximum Safe Estimate: Do not exceed 17.0 grains without further data (e.g., QuickLOAD simulation); pressures could approach 25,000-30,000 PSI, still well below .308 SAAMI max (62,000 PSI), but monitor closely.

Expected Velocities (Approximate, 24" Barrel)Based on user reports and burn rate scaling from similar loads (e.g., 14 gr Blue Dot with 165 gr cast ~1,400-1,600 fps; adjusted for heavier bullet and reduced goal):

Charge (gr)	Est. Velocity (fps)	Notes
13.0	1,100-1,200	Subsonic baseline; low pressure (~15,000-20,000 PSI); good for initial stability tests.
14.0	1,200-1,300	Target zone for your 1,300 fps goal; ~20% case fill—use visual checks for double-charges.
15.0	1,300-1,400	Likely hits 1,300 fps; increasing accuracy potential.
16.0	1,400-1,500	Upper end; watch for sooting or velocity spikes.

Loading and Testing Guidelines

• Components: Use standard large rifle primers (e.g., CCI 200); COAL ~2.800-2.810" for your 1.4" copper bullet (e.g., Barnes TSX). Crimp lightly if using a suppressor.
• Safety Tips:
  • Case Fill: These are ~15-25% fill—visually inspect every round for proper charge (no double-loads; a double would be obvious but dangerous).
  • Work-Up: Fire 3-5 rounds per charge from a safe distance. Chronograph each group. Stop if velocity jumps >50 fps or shows inconsistency (indicating ignition issues).
  • Stability: With your 1:10 twist, 1,300 fps should yield SG ~1.3 (as calculated previously)—test groups at 100/200 yards for keyholing.
  • Alternatives if Needed: If Blue Dot underperforms (e.g., inconsistent ES/SD >30 fps), consider H4895 (start at 60% of max: ~24.6 gr for ~1,000-1,200 fps) or Trail Boss for better fill.
• Resources: Cross-reference with QuickLOAD software if available, or forums like Accurate Shooter for user chrony data. Consult the Alliant Powder website for general reduced-load warnings.

Once chronographed, share results for further refinement! Remember, reloading is iterative—prioritize safety over speed.

 

[Jiffy]

You shooting that load to 1000?

 

[Lycanthrope]

You shooting that load to 1000?

only on the moon, if I ever get there!

 

[Jiffy]

Post terminal data if you kill something. I’m interested.

 

[SDMF]

I have never used those bullets before so not much to add. I did harvest a deer and an antelope one year with my .300 blk and 220gr sierra matchkings subsonic. I would not recommend. The bullet did not expand on either, the damage was mainly due to the bullet tumbling from what i can tell. They both expired reasonably quick but both shots were through the vitals and i treated it like archery hunting and gave them time to expire and not be pushed.

SMK's sans green tip are and always have been predictably unpredictable. 1's a grenade, next 10 are like shooting FMJ, then more grenades.

I'd give pretty serious thought to the .308 110 V-Max @ sub-sonic speed.

I ran a bunch of numbers, projectiles, bore diameters, etc and in the end, never could find a combo that didn't require a 5MOA+ correction from 50-100yds no matter how much BC you added and I pretty much scrapped the idea.

 

[Hunter58301]

https://hodgdonreloading.com/rldc/

 

[Lycanthrope]

Any one have quickload that could run 200 grain bullets using blue dot in 308 winchester for me?

 

[1lessdog]

based upon this chart, the AI generated load recommendations seem kinda hot for a 308. Any one have quickload that could run 200 grain bullets using blue dot in 308 winchester for me?

I run reduced loads in a 243 and 6.5 Creedmoor using H-4895. And have had good success with it. You may want to look at it. I run 10 grs of Blue dot to fire form 22-6MM AI and 6MM AI and would never think of using that load for a Deer size animal.

 

[Lycanthrope]

 

[1lessdog]

No, Blue Dot is generally not considered a good powder for reduced rifle loads because it is a slow-burning powder designed for full-power loads, and reduced loads can lead to erratic pressure and accuracy issues. It is a poor choice for reduced loads because of its low case fill, which can result in a double charge that is easy to overlook. Additionally, Blue Dot can be difficult to measure accurately with a powder dispenser, leading to inconsistent results.
Why Blue Dot is not recommended for reduced loads

Erratic pressure: Reduced loads with Blue Dot can result in inconsistent pressures, which can be dangerous.

Double charge risk: Due to its low density, it is easy to accidentally double-charge a case without realizing it, which can lead to a catastrophic failure.

Poor case fill: Blue Dot does not fill the case well in reduced loads, creating a significant air space that can lead to inconsistent ignition and performance.
Not a fast powder: Blue Dot is designed for heavier, high-pressure applications, and its slow burn rate is not suited for light loads.


Better alternatives for reduced loads
Unique: A versatile and popular powder for both full-power and reduced loads.


Trail Boss: Specifically designed for reduced loads and is known for its large case fill, making it a safer option.


H4895: A good option for reduced rifle loads that can be used to make very accurate and clean plinking rounds.

I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm just saying there are better powders to use than Blue Dot.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Blue Dot Range Report: 30/06 Springfield

Rifle Used: Winchester Model 70

Barrel Length; 24 inch

Case Remington
Primer: CCI Large Rifle


150 grain Remington SP: Case: Remington, CCI/LR Primer, OAL: 81.36mm

21 grs: 2057 fps
22 grs: 2180 fps
23 grs: 2225 fps
24 grs: 2272 fps

25 grs: 2363 fps
26 grs: 2421 fps
27 grs: 2422 fps
28 grs: 2512 fps

Consider 27 grains as max load for reliable brass life. Recoil was greatly reduced, ( guestimate of 50% or more!) Accuracy was excellent in my Winchester Model 70. There are a lot of good bullets available that would work well at these velocities. My favorite is the ballistic tip and the 150 grain round noses. The 150 grain FN meant for the 30/30 would also be a good bullet. Speer�s Magtip also does an excellent job.

I would not hesitate to use these loads on any deer. At 24 grains, a 3.5 inch high zero at 100 yds, would be close to dead on at 200 yds. Penetration is a lot better than most people would believe reading modern ballistic charts.
Good shot placement, and you would be surprised what these loads will do.

I have taken an Elk, ( cow) at 175 yds, that weight 650 lbs on the hoof. She was taken at a broadside shot at a dead gallop. The load was a 165 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip, with an MV of 2250fps. The bullet penetrated all the way thru and was lodged on the far side under the hide. It destroyed both lungs and the liver, while cutting the esophagus in half also. The Elk cow went 50 yds and expired.

This load was not being carried to try and prove a point. As typical in hunting, the wrong ammo got packed for the trip, in the rush to get going.
It was all I had with me, which meant use it, or NOHunt! I decided to hunt.
90 minutes or less, I had the Elk down!

165 grain Sierra SP: Fed 210 Primer, Win Brass, OAL: 82.50 mm

20 grains: 1852 fps
21 grains: 1894 fps
22 grains: 1986 fps
23 grains: 2047 fps

24 grains: 2102 fps
25 grains: 2157 fps
26 grains: 2228 fps

I recommend stopping at 25 grains. 26 grains gave a few stiff bolt extractions.


180 grain Remington SP: Fed 210 Primer, Win Brass, OAL: 80.85mm

20 grains: 1762 fps
21 grains: 1814 fps
22 grains: 1882 fps
23 grains: 1955 fps
24 grains: 2022 fps
25 grains: 2076 fps.

The Nosler Ballistic tip would be a GREAT bullet in these applications, due to it being able to open up at low velocities and be deadly on game. I prefer Round Nose bullets or bullets like Speers Mag Tip also in reduced loads.
Honorable mention will go to 170 grain 30/30 bullets from multiple manufacturers that were design to work in this velocity ranges.

Accuracy with all weights were exceptional.

 

[Lycanthrope]

I had AI calculate 308 loads based off the above listed 3006 data:

Adjusted Load Data for .308 Winchester with 200 Grain Solid Copper Bullets Using Blue Dot PowderSafety Warning: Blue Dot is not officially recommended for .308 Winchester; these are experimental loads based on .30-06 data adjusted for the smaller case (~56 grains H2O vs. ~68 grains). Start low, increase by 0.5-1 grain, use a chronograph, and monitor pressure signs (flattened primers, stiff bolt lift). Solid copper bullets increase friction, potentially lowering velocities 10-20% vs. lead-core. Stay below SAAMI max (62,000 psi); these estimates target 15,000-32,000 psi for safety. Use fillers for low charges (<50% fill). Test for accuracy and expansion—copper may not expand below 1,800 fps, but penetration is strong, as shown in .30-06 elk example.Assumptions: 24" barrel, large rifle primer (e.g., CCI 200), Remington/Winchester brass, OAL ~2.800-2.810" (adjust for chamber). Velocities scaled from .30-06 data (150-180gr, 20-27gr Blue Dot, 1,762-2,512 fps), reduced ~15-20% for case capacity and bullet weight/friction.Load Data (copy/paste-friendly format):

Powder Charge (grains Blue Dot),Approximate Velocity (fps),Estimated Pressure (psi)
16,1450,15000-20000
17,1500,17000-22000
18,1550,19000-24000
19,1600,21000-26000
20,1650,23000-28000
21,1700,25000-30000
22,1750,27000-32000

 

[SDMF]

Believe I'd be in CFE Black mode for Sub-Sonic loads since it's sort of made for that.

 

[1lessdog]

Believe I'd be in CFE Black mode for Sub-Sonic loads since it's sort of made for that.

I use IMR-4227 in my 300 Blackout subsonic with Hornady 190 gr Sub-X. In a 300 Blackout Bolt Action AR they are really quiet. The standard AR in rifle 16 inch and pistol 10.5 inch not near as quiet.