All New Mercury 4-Strokes - Just released

[westwolfone]

It seems like all of the pro motocross guys have 4 strokes now. So I think there must be some advantage. Could be the powerband
of a 4 works better for them, rather than just raw horsepower.

Just like car engines, I think a lot of the gadgets new motors have on them is just to make more money for the dealers and manufacturers.

Fuel Injection and electronic ignition, Yay. Everything else, meh.

 

[eyexer]

They have been building four stroke motocross bikes that CC for CC will eat two strokes for quite a while. The only advantage the two stroke used to have was weight savings. Now that is going away too. Same is happening with outboards. With four stroke motocross bikes you have usable power every inch of the throttle unlike two strokes you have to keep in the sweet spot or you have virtually nothing. And the power output is so usable and put to the ground you can do things with a four stroke bike you wouldn't dream of trying with a two stroke.

 

[Captain Ahab]

They have been building four stroke motocross bikes that CC for CC will eat two strokes for quite a while. The only advantage the two stroke used to have was weight savings. Now that is going away too. Same is happening with outboards. With four stroke motocross bikes you have usable power every inch of the throttle unlike two strokes you have to keep in the sweet spot or you have virtually nothing. And the power output is so usable and put to the ground you can do things with a four stroke bike you wouldn't dream of trying with a two stroke.

I agree with everything but this. The 125cc 2-stroke class turned into the 250 4-stroke class and the 250 2-stroke class turned into the 450 4-stroke class. It does take more cc's to be competitive with a 4-stroke so far.

 

[eyexer]

I agree with everything but this. The 125cc 2-stroke class turned into the 250 4-stroke class and the 250 2-stroke class turned into the 450 4-stroke class. It does take more cc's to be competitive with a 4-stroke so far.

that's really kind of a bogus deal. In AMA racing they allow 250 two strokes to run against the 250 four strokes and nobody is dumb enough to do it lol. This is at the amateur level, AMA pro racing doesn't do it because only two companies make 250 two strokes anymore. Since they have gone to EFI on the four strokes the two strokes can't compete unless it's in the hands of a far superior rider. I've seen one guy that could do it and he was a pro level rider running in the amateur class with marginal amateurs.

 

[Fisherman25]

Weight comparisons:

Merc Proxs Opti 175 - 431 lbs
Evinrude ETEC G2 175 - 535 lbs
New Merc V6 4stroke (lightest model avail) - 475 lbs
Merc Verado 175 - 510 lbs.
Yamaha F175 - 487 lbs
Suzuki DF175 - 522 lbs.

IDK where you are getting your information, but you are dead wrong. All those number came right from the manufacturers websites. Anyone who understands the differences between the two types of engines and has actually tore into them, knows that all things being equal (metal types, metal thickness, engine size, etc.) there is no way a 4 stroke can be as light as a 2 stroke. It's just physics. You can't add a head, valve train, cam shaft, and all the other parts that are needed for a 4 stroke and come away lighter than a metal plate with threaded spark plug hole and a carbon fiber reed valve of a 2 stroke.

The only way these 4 strokes get close to the weight of a 2 stroke, is going to be advancements in metal engineering allowing for thinner metal and different types/alloys to be used which equal less weight. If you in turn would apply those same technologies to a 2 stroke, it will be considerably lighter. The reason is, there is no R&D being done on the 2 stroke side (aside form evinrude) because our lovely government frowns upon mixing oil and fire.

And as far as Merc Optis having systemic issues... They had issues with the 3.0L block back in the early 2000s when they first came out, that was fixed in a few years. From what I've read, by the mid to late 2000s, they were pretty much worked out. The 2.5L block motors were always pretty reliable. Theres a reason that motor has remained relatively unchanged for roughly 20 years.

Go look at the bass boat market and show me how many 4 strokes you find. A lot of the used market is still running/rebuilding on Merc 2 stroke EFI motors because of the power they put out. The only reason Merc had to move away from the EFI motors to the Optimax motors was because of government emission regulations.

Bottom of the line, if you have ever been in the used boat market and did any amount of research on a particular outboard model, you will find issues here or there. But you are correct that as a whole, now a days, they are all pretty damn reliable compared to the motors of yester-year.

The new Yamaha SHO 4 stroke 250 is the same weight as the Optimax and Evinrude in the same class. That’s a light 4 stroke!

 

[Allen]

Rey,

You know, I said the 200 Verado vs the 200 Optimax in the weight comparison, right? One was 505 lbs, the other 510 lbs.

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And that came directly from Mercs homepage. I guess they could have been wrong though.

https://www.mercurymarine.com/en/us/engines/outboard/compare/?e[]=249&e[]=297&e[]=158&e[]=298

 

[shorthairsrus]

And the prices just keep increasing. When's Johhnnyy gonna buy em out. Tracker ranger Mercury marine

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Ethanol fuel. Costing all of us huge $$$$. Plus the EPA. This winter we could use less emmission. By the time it's over your gonna need 2 extensions.

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Ice won't be off till end of May.

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a

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[Captain Ahab]

that's really kind of a bogus deal. In AMA racing they allow 250 two strokes to run against the 250 four strokes and nobody is dumb enough to do it lol. This is at the amateur level, AMA pro racing doesn't do it because only two companies make 250 two strokes anymore. Since they have gone to EFI on the four strokes the two strokes can't compete unless it's in the hands of a far superior rider. I've seen one guy that could do it and he was a pro level rider running in the amateur class with marginal amateurs.

Here is the YZ 125 2 stroke vs the YZ 250 4 stroke. More usable power on double the cc four stroke, but still more peak power by the little 2 stroke. Most 250 2 strokes put out around 45-48 horsepower. That's about 40-50% more peak power than the 250 4 strokes.

 

[AR-15]

I've got a 115hp Mercury, 4yrs old not many hrs. on it, when should a person change the water pump?

 

[SupressYourself]

I've got a 115hp Mercury, 4yrs old not many hrs. on it, when should a person change the water pump?

When it starts whizzing like an old man.
Some that run in sandy river water change it every other year. Mines 12 years old and I just did it for the first time. Now it's got a strong stream again.

 

[shorthairsrus]

new ones wear down quicker imo --- every 3-4 years --- river maybe less

 

[SDMF]

And the prices just keep increasing. When's Johhnnyy gonna buy em out. Tracker ranger Mercury marine

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Ethanol fuel. Costing all of us huge $$$$. Plus the EPA. This winter we could use less emmission. By the time it's over your gonna need 2 extensions.

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Ice won't be off till end of May.

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a

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What happened there and what caused it?

 

[eyexer]

Here is the YZ 125 2 stroke vs the YZ 250 4 stroke. More usable power on double the cc four stroke, but still more peak power by the little 2 stroke. Most 250 2 strokes put out around 45-48 horsepower. That's about 40-50% more peak power than the 250 4 strokes.

that means nothing. here's why. you, nor me know anybody that can keep that 125 on that peak horsepower spot. Look at the ginormous area that 4 stroke is at or near top horsepower. Like 70% more? lol. Your graph totally proves my point. Now to add insult to injury for $1000 you might get lucky and add 1 hp to the 125. For $1000 you can add 3-4 hp to the four stroke. What's that grand gonna do to your graph? That's right, blow it out of the water. I'm not sure how old that graph is either. Looks pretty old. Most modern day 4 stroke 250's are stock with a fair amount more horsepower if I recall. Don't get me wrong I like two strokes and love the sound of them and the smell of the fuel. But they're a relic now on the motocross track.

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Here is the YZ 125 2 stroke vs the YZ 250 4 stroke. More usable power on double the cc four stroke, but still more peak power by the little 2 stroke. Most 250 2 strokes put out around 45-48 horsepower. That's about 40-50% more peak power than the 250 4 strokes.

so you got me curious since I haven't looked the past couple years. Here is the 2018 KTM 250 peak HP, lol. You might want to re-do your graph lol. Almost ten hp more than your graph. I figured it was quite old. Come a long way in the last three years lol. But oh well 125's are still fun as hell to ride.

KTM 250SXFs have always had go-for-broke powerbands. The 250SXF makes its peak horsepower (43.79 horsepower) at the highest rpm the engine will turn over, which means 14,000 rpm.

 

[Captain Ahab]

All I'm saying is line up a brand new KTM 250 SX and a brand new KTM 250 SXF in a straight drag race. I will put down as big of a bet anybody will match on the 2 stroke using 10 year old technology.

 

[eyexer]

All I'm saying is line up a brand new KTM 250 SX and a brand new KTM 250 SXF in a straight drag race. I will put down as big of a bet anybody will match on the 2 stroke using 10 year old technology.

it'll be wheel to wheel at the best. The 250 four stroke is making as much horsepower as the 250 two stroke now. And I'd actually put my money on the four stroke because they hook up far better because the power is so much broader. Then stick em on a track and it'll be embarassing for the two stroke. You tried to tell me a 125 was going to beat the 250 four stroke and when I showed you that wasn't happening you switched to a 250 smoker. And I don't think that'll happen either lol. I should also add I raced a 250 two stroke for quite a number or years. It has nothing on the modern day 250 four strokes. I've raced em both. And I was never going to let myself like the four strokes. Hated em at first. But there is just arguing against them anymore. I looked up the yz250 hp and they only make 46 hp. so they barely have anymore hp than the new 250 4 stroke. After looking that up and taking into account the amount of wheel spin on the two stroke I'll put my money on the four stroke in a drag race too.

 

[shorthairsrus]

What happened there and what caused it?

Not mine -- just stirring the pot --- merc 4stroke they blow too. They probably should of kept a partnership going with yammy.

 

[Allen]

What happened there and what caused it?

Not mine -- just stirring the pot --- merc 4stroke they blow too. They probably should of kept a partnership going with yammy.

That is almost identical to what happened to my 2013 Merc 150 Fourstroke. Except it was on the other side of the block.

 

[eyexer]

That is almost identical to what happened to my 2013 Merc 150 Fourstroke. Except it was on the other side of the block.

what's right behind the crack. almost looks like a block that has frozen. at least the ones I've seen. but they weren't on boats lol

 

[Allen]

what's right behind the crack. almost looks like a block that has frozen. at least the ones I've seen. but they weren't on boats lol

Not a boat mechanic, but since it was in the upper 80s to lower 90s that day, I am familiar enough with the properties of water to be sure it didn't freeze.

If I were to guess though, I'd say it was probably a connecting rod that came loose.

 

[eyexer]

Not a boat mechanic, but since it was in the upper 80s to lower 90s that day, I am familiar enough with the properties of water to be sure it didn't freeze.

If I were to guess though, I'd say it was probably a connecting rod that came loose.

it's hard to tell by the pic where the damage is. Must be on the side right where a connecting rod would be?