No Trespass Law

[guywhofishes]

yep - eff him and his hunting show

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in his latest video on FB Ultimate Outdoors dude claims that he has knocked on doors 10-11 years in a row until the landowner said yes

great idea - that'll work out swell for relationships

 

[Uncle Jimbo]

This bill should be amended so funding for the app comes from the general fund. The sponsors say it’s a private property rights issue, not an anti hunting bill, and ran it through the Senate agriculture committee instead of the energy and natural resources committee. If it’s not about hunting and hunters, let the ALL taxpayers foot the bill. Doing so will help this bad bill die a quicker death!

 

[Davey Crockett]

He put out another video trying to make it sound like he wasn't taking sides on this, he was just stating that he sees both sides. I am guessing he only made that video after some people started to tell him and hopefully some of his sponsors that they would no longer be watching his show.

Maybe maybe not. It's pretty easy for me to see both sides and I have nothing to gain nothing to lose but my future generations do . I won't know if I support the bill as written until the final draft but some of you evidently already have your mind made up and boycotting those with other opinions and even those that are on the fence. Are you going to boycott land owners that are in favor or on the fence too ? Speaking as a hunter, The more I hear the more the less I like what I hear. Speaking as a landowner, It's easier to lean in favor than against this bill and I'm thinking I might sitting at the wrong campfire. To me this a property rights issue more than a hunting issue. I see a lot of people making it sound impossible before we even know the final content or procedure. This comment will really get a rise out of you guys but I see the same as the issue with not enough tags to go around. Most of the same ones bitching against this bill fought for the ability to have two tags while other hunters have to go without any , I see it as greed and you want it all on a silver platter. I get the part of driving down the road and seeing a coyote or a thirty point buck and not being able to drop them , That part I really do get. I just keep hearing how much money this will cost and it will be impossible to make this work.

This is a partial copy and pasted opinion of a landowner from ND stockmen's website that pretty much sums up my opinion.

" This bill is about Property Rights, not hunting. We OWN or land, which gives us as owners the absolute power of who can and can't enter it for any and all reasons. The state has no right to grant trespass "privileges" to ANYONE regardless if we post or don't! It is not PUBLIC land it's PRIVATE so the state has no claim to it for anything. There is NO RIGHT to enter another person's private property without permission, it's as simple as that."

Either way this bill goes I get pretty sick of the bitching and whining I hear and get if a landowner or sportsman even asks a question or makes a neutral comment then he is the enemy or the one bitching and whining. SMH. I am still not sure what way I will even decide on this bill until the final draft but I do have my opinions. I promised obi or migrator , I forget which one that I won't sugar coat it and I didn't then and I won't ever. If I am sitting at the wrong campfire then so be it but one thing hunters have to take into account is the mentality of most ranchers and large property owners.

They will do just fine without [FONT=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]hunters[/FONT] believe me and it hurts to face the reality about that. I think some you hunters setting up ALL hunters for a lot of resistance here and I don't like that one bit thinking ahead for future generations. This looks like one issue that working together is a hell of a lot smarter than working against but that is just my not so humble opinion.

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If and when this would ever end up in a courtroom as a class action property rights issue it won't come out good for hunters .

 

[Allen]

" This bill is about Property Rights, not hunting. We OWN or land, which gives us as owners the absolute power of who can and can't enter it for any and all reasons. The state has no right to grant trespass "privileges" to ANYONE regardless if we post or don't! It is not PUBLIC land it's PRIVATE so the state has no claim to it for anything. There is NO RIGHT to enter another person's private property without permission, it's as simple as that."

That little snippet is patently incorrect. The State has already granted me permission to trespass onto private property in order to retrieve my property. This comes in the form of hunting for when I shoot a bird and it falls across the fence, or if I shoot a deer and it runs away and onto another's posted land. As a matter of fact, my neighbors tested this a few years ago. Neighbor A stuck a deer that ran over onto neighbor B's land. Neighbor B refused to give the guy permission to go looking for his deer. So neighbor A contacted a warden and they eventually got both a warden and a sheriff to escort the guy onto the posted land against neighbor B's wishes. Yes, they found and retrieved the deer. Neighbor B sued neighbor A for violating his property rights. Guess what, neighbor B lost in court.

Similarly, if my cows wandered over onto someone else's property, they don't get to restrict my right to retrieving them. We saw that up by Lakota a few years ago where there was an armed standoff between some douche landowner and the Sheriff, all over property rights.

US landowners have to get it through our heads that property rights are NOT absolute because we are a part of the greater community and not on a fricking one-owner island. We are also seeing this as of late in Burleigh and Emmons county where there has been strong opposition to a new wind-farm, so far the people who want to allow turbines on their land are losing in the argument over if it gets built.

And this fella who wrote that little passage that Davey posted is also mistaken in the sense of he seems to be of opinion that the State is/has(?) been allowing people to hunt his land without his permission. Far from the case, his land and access to it has already been placed at his discretion. He's just not liking the fact that he actually has to communicate to people his wishes. I'm with KDM on this, posting of the land automatically by a State law is a bigger property rights issue than simply requiring us landowners to communicate our wishes. Under current law, nobody can post my land but me and my agents acting on behalf of me, I don't want to give the State the authority to post my land.

 

[KDM]

A few things to keep in mind Davey. First and foremost, I am ALL for landowner rights. However, this isn't a bill that affects just two groups. Second, as the number of landowners diminishes due to larger and larger farms, so does the number of votes they can muster to defend landowner rights. Third, saying "Most" when describing the mentality of large ranchers and landowners is painting with the same broad brush you vigorously chastise everyone else for using in their posts. You vehemently proclaim nobody can know your mind and yet you are lumping all these landowners together like you know theirs. IME, it is difficult to find three Ranchers or Farmers to agree on anything when it comes to raising their products or managing their land. Just sit in a cenex coffee shop some time and listen. Fourth, without non-landowner types supporting landowners with respect to depredation complaints, subsidies, conservation programs, environmental policies, ag policies, and all manner of additional issues right down to allowing variances in road weight limits during harvests to accommodate grain trucks and waste management for ranches, ag interests of any kind have a much more difficult time promoting the issues that affect/benefit them. We are all connected. This bill affects everyone in ND, not just landowners and hunters and it is BAD in any form which will do nothing but hurt everyone in ND. As such, I'm not one to sit back and wait to see what happens. If I and others had waited to see what happened, this crappy bill might have not even been changed and I hope it completely dies as a result of the same NOT wait and see attitude of so many other ND folks who have so intensely opposed this garbage bill.

 

[Davey Crockett]

Thanks for the civil post Allen. We need more of that and less sticking fingers in our ears and screaming, If for no other good reason it's best for the better of our future generations, All that does is cause more tension between hunters and landowners and that's the last thing we need at this point. It will be interesting to see how it all folds out in the end. Either way the issue won't be going away any time soon, I have a feeling some kinks and will get ironed out in the end.

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And you too KDM, Keeping discussion civil is pretty important at this point . Anything less just continues to deteriorate relations . Yes I maybe did paint with a broad brush when I say "Most landowners" Those are numbers neither of us know because not every coffee shop talk is the same. There are "quite a few" anyway . One question I have is how surrounding states already have this law in place ? I realize most if not all have more public land than ND but my question still remains the same.

 

[Obi-Wan]

" This bill is about Property Rights, not hunting. We OWN or land, which gives us as owners the absolute power of who can and can't enter it for any and all reasons. The state has no right to grant trespass "privileges" to ANYONE regardless if we post or don't! It is not PUBLIC land it's PRIVATE so the state has no claim to it for anything. There is NO RIGHT to enter another person's private property without permission, it's as simple as that."

In the same token the state has no right to give liability protections to one group of people ( Ranchers / Farmers ) while not giving the same protections to every property owner

The state also has no right to limit sales tax to one business ( Ranchers / Farmers ) and not give all business the same limits.

The days of the family farms are going away and it has now become large farming operations. The protections put in place to protect the small family farms need to be eliminated and these businesses need to be treated like every other business in the state. The ag community may feel they do not need the hunters but they need to remember that the number of people in the cities greatly exceeds the numbers in the ag community, which ultimately push legislation.

 

[johnr]

I don’t think the small town bars, gas stations, hardware stores would agree with the local farmers say eff the hunters. No one is entitled to someone else’s land, however we already have a system for this. It’s removing ones nose in spite of ones face.

No one wants to foster a land owner/hunter dispute. We all lose in this situation. Especially rural USA.

 

[KDM]

I think you hit the nail on the head with the extremely small amount of published public land access in ND if you don't include unposted private land access. In the other states, there is significantly greater access to large amounts of public land upon which to enjoy the outdoor experience which is why, I suspect, a no trespass law even passed there. I would submit, without any data, that if you combine ND's unposted land with public land, you may get approximately the same amount of acreage open to outdoor activities as these other states have. Which is one of the reasons I so strongly OPPOSE this bill in any form.

 

[eyexer]

everyday this turns into a bigger shit show. what a waste of legislators time. these clowns need to be removed from office.

 

[njsimonson]

I would submit, without any data, that if you combine ND's unposted land with public land, you may get approximately the same amount of acreage open to outdoor activities as these other states have. Which is one of the reasons I so strongly OPPOSE this bill in any form.

And you're 100% right and the data does bare it out...

Even with the 1M acres of private, unposted land in ND and our roughly 2.1M acres of public land & PLOTS (2013 data), we still fall well below SD's 5M acres of publicly-accessible land.


https://gfp.sd.gov/hunting-areas/

https://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/o...WBoDUqC6gXiG3k_NO4adBh4hfu9EZPbH2v3bECOjtbUbI

Still nothing from the committee, rumors keep circulating that perhaps by the end of today we'll have the new version of 2315...we'll see.

 

[Davey Crockett]

I don't claim to have the answers but public awareness is in need to get to the bottom of a few things. For those that say there isn't a problem with things the way they are just look back and at what happened with DAPL protest . LEOs stood by and watched , Why did they not wash them off the property with a firehose ? the only arrests that I am aware of were from vandalism , The whole bunch could have and should have been charged with criminal trespass. LEOs brush it off like there isn't anything they can do to a trespasser even if caught red handed. I don't know if it's the laws or LEOs or both. Somebody needs to be jacked up over DAPL and that would be a good start.

 

[espringers]

the only trespass cases that weren't prosecutable in the DAPL deal were those initial ones where there were some issues with posting right away. everyone after that who was told to leave by the landowner or after good posters went up should have been good cases.

 

[Davey Crockett]

the only trespass cases that weren't prosecutable in the DAPL deal were those initial ones where there were some issues with posting right away. everyone after that who was told to leave by the landowner or after good posters went up should have been good cases.

That's what I thought , I never understood LEOs standing around and watching when they should have been working.

 

[guywhofishes]

DAPL ####show problem numero uno

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somebody, somewhere, didn't have the balls to enforce the law for PC reasons

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Governor Feckless should have provided leadership/cover.

 

[yellowlab]

I don't claim to have the answers but public awareness is in need to get to the bottom of a few things. For those that say there isn't a problem with things the way they are just look back and at what happened with DAPL protest . LEOs stood by and watched , Why did they not wash them off the property with a firehose ? the only arrests that I am aware of were from vandalism , The whole bunch could have and should have been charged with criminal trespass. LEOs brush it off like there isn't anything they can do to a trespasser even if caught red handed. I don't know if it's the laws or LEOs or both. Somebody needs to be jacked up over DAPL and that would be a good start.

There were hundreds of criminal trespass arrests during DAPL. LEO's did not "stand by and watch". If you don't know what you are talking about, stick to something you do know.

 

[espringers]

there were a ton of them.

 

[Davey Crockett]

There were hundreds of criminal trespass arrests during DAPL. LEO's did not "stand by and watch". If you don't know what you are talking about, stick to something you do know.

I already said I don't have the answers you evidently do so school me , I saw LEO's standing and being taunted by trespassers . Tell me why were they not arrested or washed out of there with a fire hose ? Or was I seeing things ? I can fetch you a picture or two if you want to call me a liar .

 

[Davey Crockett]

I wasn't too far off.


Morton County Sheriff Kyle Kirchmeier offered neutral testimony, saying existing law is not working. His county handled numerous trespassing cases during the Dakota Access Pipeline protest, and some cases hinged on whether no-trespassing signs were in place. If someone tore down a sign, there was no way to prove that a trespasser knew the land was posted, he said. Laws, he said in relation to a question from a committee member, serve as a deterrent and a mechanism to prosecute bad behavior.

 

[MuleyMadness]

All I know is that if this bill passes all privately owned land is deemed posted. Then it better as hell mean that all PUBLIC land in the badlands being rented by a farmer/rancher better not be able to be posted.

I would argue this point till my ass falls off. I just do not see it any other way. You cannot tell me that I have to stay off without permission and then keep letting the farmers post OUR PUBLIC LAND. Seems like it would be the biggest back stabbing BS I have ever seen.