No Trespass Law

[Wags2.0]

DAPL ####show problem numero uno

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somebody, somewhere, didn't have the balls to enforce the law for PC reasons

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Governor Feckless should have provided leadership/cover.

Buddy Garitty does not approve of your message

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Get yourself one of these, son

 

[KDM]

I wasn't too far off.


Morton County Sheriff Kyle Kirchmeier offered neutral testimony, saying existing law is not working. His county handled numerous trespassing cases during the Dakota Access Pipeline protest, and some cases hinged on whether no-trespassing signs were in place. If someone tore down a sign, there was no way to prove that a trespasser knew the land was posted, he said. Laws, he said in relation to a question from a committee member, serve as a deterrent and a mechanism to prosecute bad behavior.

This new trash bill wouldn't have prevented any of those protesters from trespassing either. I'm not sure how many times it has to be brought up that laws only stop those people that obey laws to begin with. As far as the trespass crap during DAPL, once the landowner made it known to LE that they wanted those people to stay off their land the signs became a moot point. Just like when someone finds unposted land to hunt and the landowner shows up the same day and says to get out or posts it. You have to leave. Once those cops knew the landowner wanted those people gone it was a done deal. The morton county sheriff was mitigating a tense situation, NOT enforcing the law. That said, I don't blame the sheriff for what happened as all LE folks out there were trying to prevent violence and life loss. Trespass laws were enforced, but at a time when it wouldn't have kicked off a riot where people would have gotten hurt. Again, SB2315 won't stop any of this behavior any better than those already on the books.

 

[Davey Crockett]

I respect your opinion KDM. Opinions are one that thing nobody can take away from a person. We don't all agree all the time and that's all good The world would be pretty black and white if we did. I'm the first one to admit that I don't have all the answers but I listen to all sides and try to sift through information and misinformation and form my opinion from what I see as the most credible sources and what makes the most sense in my situation. I don't know for sure if you are right or if Kyle Kirchmeier is right but I do know that I tend to trust the opinion of a Sheriff that has served 33 years as a law enforcement officer over your opinion. That is my opinion and like yours, Mine can't be taken away from me. It's bought and paid for. Just stating the facts Nothing more-Nothing less.


"Morton County Sheriff Kyle Kirchmeier offered neutral testimony, saying existing law is not working. His county handled numerous trespassing cases during the Dakota Access Pipeline protest, and some cases hinged on whether no-trespassing signs were in place. If someone tore down a sign, there was no way to prove that a trespasser knew the land was posted, he said. Laws, he said in relation to a question from a committee member, serve as a deterrent and a mechanism to prosecute bad behavior."

I think rather than keeping on posting about other people's testimony I'll hold off until I can read the final draft and do some more reading in the meantime so I can form my own opinion . I'm not claiming to have answers but I do question the system now and what is going to be proposed is yet to be seen. Fact is, my opinion will have little or no bearing on the SB 2315 It's just my opinion . What I do think though is having a civil discussion on touchy issues like this can and will be more fruitful for both hunters and landowners in the long run no matter what happens with SB 2315 . I've saw some pretty ugly jabs over this bill and that my friend will deteriorate hunter landowner relations fast for everybody that reads them and It spreads like cancer.

 

[KDM]

I respect your opinion as well Davey, but I tend to believe the dozens of national guardsmen and women that I have personally known for over 25 years that were there and watched what actually happened over a 33 year LE officer looking from election to election to keep his job. Of course that's just my opinion.

 

[Migrator Man]

I respect your opinion KDM. Opinions are one that thing nobody can take away from a person. We don't all agree all the time and that's all good The world would be pretty black and white if we did. I'm the first one to admit that I don't have all the answers but I listen to all sides and try to sift through information and misinformation and form my opinion from what I see as the most credible sources and what makes the most sense in my situation. I don't know for sure if you are right or if Kyle Kirchmeier is right but I do know that I tend to trust the opinion of a Sheriff that has served 33 years as a law enforcement officer over your opinion. That is my opinion and like yours, Mine can't be taken away from me. It's bought and paid for. Just stating the facts Nothing more-Nothing less.


"Morton County Sheriff Kyle Kirchmeier offered neutral testimony, saying existing law is not working. His county handled numerous trespassing cases during the Dakota Access Pipeline protest, and some cases hinged on whether no-trespassing signs were in place. If someone tore down a sign, there was no way to prove that a trespasser knew the land was posted, he said. Laws, he said in relation to a question from a committee member, serve as a deterrent and a mechanism to prosecute bad behavior."

I think rather than keeping on posting about other people's testimony I'll hold off until I can read the final draft and do some more reading in the meantime so I can form my own opinion . I'm not claiming to have answers but I do question the system now and what is going to be proposed is yet to be seen. Fact is, my opinion will have little or no bearing on the SB 2315 It's just my opinion . What I do think though is having a civil discussion on touchy issues like this can and will be more fruitful for both hunters and landowners in the long run no matter what happens with SB 2315 . I've saw some pretty ugly jabs over this bill and that my friend will deteriorate hunter landowner relations fast for everybody that reads them and It spreads like cancer.

There has to be a way we can stiffen the trespass laws to make them easier to prosecute and enforce. I am all for that because what happened on DAPL was a travesty, but the authors/ supporters of this law are using DAPL to hide their true intentions. They are targeting freelance hunters and are not afraid to say it anymore. All a guy has to read is their website to see their true motives. There has to be a better way of preventing DAPL protesters than just making all land posted.

 

[Davey Crockett]

There has to be a way we can stiffen the trespass laws to make them easier to prosecute and enforce. I am all for that because what happened on DAPL was a travesty, but the authors/ supporters of this law are using DAPL to hide their true intentions. They are targeting freelance hunters and are not afraid to say it anymore. All a guy has to read is their website to see their true motives. There has to be a better way of preventing DAPL protesters than just making all land posted.

What website ?

 

[Iceman]

So any word on this bill?

 

[PrairieGhost]

Sheriff that has served 33 years

I would like to add some food for thought. I have worked as a reserve since April 7, 1987. I often look at those police, sheriff's, game wardens etc who are for gun laws. Sure if you take away everyone's guns things are easier for the officers. The game and fish wasn't real happy when we established a muzzleloader season. I think because it made more work for them. To often when we do something to make law enforcement easier we give up some freedom. DAPL shenanigans were a travesty, but do we give up freedom because of them? The war on terrorism has people wanting to give up freedoms. Freedom for me is part of the quality of life we live here in North Dakota. From an LE point of view do I dislike that people in North Dakota can carry without a concealed permit? Nope, LE should be willing to take slightly more risk so others have freedom. Freedom to defend themselves. Besides my opinion is 99.9% of those people would help a LE officer, not endanger them. I see this trespass bill as another shackle on freedom.

Look at A O Cortez and Trump. Which one would vote for more regulations and loss of freedom? Speaking of were any of you aware that the dems already tried to sneak through a bill that would have made it a felony with a mandatory year in prison for loaning someone your shotgun?

 

[johnr]

So any word on this bill?

Yeah it sucks

 

[jdinny]

This new trash bill wouldn't have prevented any of those protesters from trespassing either. I'm not sure how many times it has to be brought up that laws only stop those people that obey laws to begin with. As far as the trespass crap during DAPL, once the landowner made it known to LE that they wanted those people to stay off their land the signs became a moot point. Just like when someone finds unposted land to hunt and the landowner shows up the same day and says to get out or posts it. You have to leave. Once those cops knew the landowner wanted those people gone it was a done deal. The morton county sheriff was mitigating a tense situation, NOT enforcing the law. That said, I don't blame the sheriff for what happened as all LE folks out there were trying to prevent violence and life loss. Trespass laws were enforced, but at a time when it wouldn't have kicked off a riot where people would have gotten hurt. Again, SB2315 won't stop any of this behavior any better than those already on the books.

I think what they are trying to say is that your probably right it wont stop anyone from trespassing we all get that, However if there was a no trespass law those people could be prosecuted legally without the he said she said BS. with the way the current law is written a shit pile are getting thrown out and not even getting a slap on the wrist. would that change IDK you don't know no one knows but it would certainly carry more weight in court now. does the judge uphold it who fucking knows.

foe the guys ready to rip me settle down im just throwing out in this 1 tiny isolated case you could probably be seeing some people getting prosecuted. that doesn't mean I support it. that doesn't mean it woulda stopped anyone I get that but I think you would be seeing some fines for sure as opposed to every single one being thrown out.

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an as far as the unposted farmer shows up jazz once again its a He said she said battle and once again with a trespass law its cut and dry .
I understand tresspassers are gonna trespass no law will every stop that but it would eliminate the he said she said BS
you either have permission or you don't

 

[eyexer]

if you think a no trespass law is going to change the prosecution rate your nuts. just look at the prosecution rates of all the other laws. judges throw all kinds of shit out for various reasons. they will simply come up with another reason to throw out a trespass case.

 

[PrairieGhost]

I think what they are trying to say is that your probably right it wont stop anyone from trespassing we all get that, However if there was a no trespass law those people could be prosecuted legally without the he said she said BS. with the way the current law is written a shit pile are getting thrown out and not even getting a slap on the wrist. would that change IDK you don't know no one knows but it would certainly carry more weight in court now. does the judge uphold it who fucking knows.

Would it? Or would a person trespassing say "officer the guy in the red pickup told me he owned the land and that I was welcome to hunt". Same as tearing down a sign. Ooooor he may just say the landowner is a liar and set him up. Lowlifes will say anything. He may say the landowner wanted to be paid and he asked how much. He may say the landowner said whatever you think. He may say I gave him four $20's but evidently it wasn't enough. Chances are the landowner would have $20's on him. So how would this change anything. Work in LE for a while and you will discover everyone lies, but some are really good at it.

 

[Davey Crockett]

That's because of loopholes eye , close a loophole so it's easy to prosecute a few trespassers with a hefty penalty and that creates a fear factor and deters trespassers. As it stands now, With no fear of being prosecuted there is no fear of getting caught so there is no fear of illegal trespassing. DAPL bleeds volumes of that IMHO

 

[PrairieGhost]

That's because of loopholes eye , close a loophole so it's easy to prosecute a few trespassers with a hefty penalty and that creates a fear factor and deters trespassers. As it stands now, With no fear of being prosecuted there is no fear of getting caught so there is no fear of illegal trespassing. DAPL bleeds volumes of that IMHO

I agree, but this lets DAPL win in a small way. If we want to solve what your concern is then we have to think of something that actually works. I have no idea what that is. Forms like this are a good place to throw ideas around, but we have to drop the ridicule because many will not want to speak up. An idea that looks foolish at first may provide someone else with a basis to build on.

Example: I would be willing to add $1 to my general license to be used to purchase high quality metal signs for landowners. Then make it a $500 fine or whatever it takes to be a deterrent for defacing these signs. Landowners ask for the signs and the Game and Fish or country offices give them out free. Include the report all poachers phone number on the sign because that's what these guys are.

 

[Davey Crockett]

I agree, but this lets DAPL win in a small way. If we want to solve what your concern is then we have to think of something that actually works. I have no idea what that is. Forms like this are a good place to throw ideas around, but we have to drop the ridicule because many will not want to speak up. An idea that looks foolish at first may provide someone else with a basis to build on.

Example: I would be willing to add $1 to my general license to be used to purchase high quality metal signs for landowners. Then make it a $500 fine or whatever it takes to be a deterrent for defacing these signs. Landowners ask for the signs and the Game and Fish or country offices give them out free. Include the report all poachers phone number on the sign because that's what these guys are.

I can buy or make my own signs but that might help or work for others though so could be either for or against that. Keeping cost down is key. My idea of a good sign rather than metal is plastic like the snowmobile trails are marked with. I think there might still be one or two orange arrow signs some along the edge of my field that are 30 or 40 years old and still in good shape. They seemed to hold up better than any sign I have ever saw. And don't nail them to trees like some people do, The signs outlast the trees. Stiffer penalties sound good, Along with stiffer laws that will give judges more leverage against criminal trespassing so LEOs are more inclined to write tickets to violators while causing little impact on hunters. I'm more interested in seeing the final draft than discussing this at this time but it's good to look at other and all options.

 

[Obi-Wan]

Would it? Or would a person trespassing say "officer the guy in the red pickup told me he owned the land and that I was welcome to hunt". Same as tearing down a sign. Ooooor he may just say the landowner is a liar and set him up. Lowlifes will say anything. He may say the landowner wanted to be paid and he asked how much. He may say the landowner said whatever you think. He may say I gave him four $20's but evidently it wasn't enough. Chances are the landowner would have $20's on him. So how would this change anything. Work in LE for a while and you will discover everyone lies, but some are really good at it.

I have had my ass chewed out by a land owner for hunting his land that the neighboring land owner said he owned and we could hunt it.

 

[fireone]

So any word on this bill?

Not yet but SB-2315 should come out of the ag committee today. For all the rumors swirling around possible amendments the same original bill language is still on the legislative website. So it seems if amendments are coming, the public won't get to testify or even see them until the bill goes to the senate floor for the vote. Ramrod politics.

 

[ndlongshot]

So it seems if amendments are coming, the public won't get to testify or even see them until the bill goes to the senate floor for the vote. Ramrod politics.

BS. Email Senators again today and remind them we're paying attention and they need to vote this shit down.

 

[guywhofishes]

with the way the current law is written a shit pile are getting thrown out and not even getting a slap on the wrist.

is this true?

source?

 

[jdinny]

if you think a no trespass law is going to change the prosecution rate your nuts. just look at the prosecution rates of all the other laws. judges throw all kinds of shit out for various reasons. they will simply come up with another reason to throw out a trespass case.

I said I don't know--but can see why in this particular case it wouldn't hurt.. cut and dry ---do you look at everything negative in life man? jesus you wake up have a job, can walk be thankful.. hoyl shit balls

I have stayed away from this thread as it is very emotionally charged but holy lord if you cant reasonably see perspective from the other side you are no better than the landowners screaming for it to happen. This isn't an easy bill ive said it before but if you are gonna name call, bitch moan, call everyone that disagrees with you names you no better than an extreme left wing liberal that cant stand a difference in opinion. period. would it help like I said IDK but they would certainly have more ground to stand on then the current law.
do I think a law should be changed for 1 particular case. hard NO but you leing to everyone if you cant see common ground on "some things"

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is this true?

source?

eyexer

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the bismarck tribune which i dont subscribe too but seems like everytime i glance at it more DAPL cases get thrown out. thats the best i can do.