No licenses for non landowners

[NDSportsman]

Ive been saying for years that 160 acres is crazy for a gratis, they should change it to 640 = buck, 320 = doe for gratis. Wake up GF.... Its not the 1950's anymore. No legitimate farmers are farming on a quarter of land anyway....

I agree but the problem isn't the GNF it's the legislature. Should be 640 acres for any gratis. Hell I don't know anyone making their living on less then a 1000 acres now days.

 

[lunkerslayer]

I think small farmers don't exist in North dakota other then maybe hobby farmers those who lease land or rent land out. I agree with both of you gratis tags for the whole family is unfair.

 

[Davey Crockett]

Just get rid of the rep points, positive or negative.

Or at the least have it set up so the username of the person posting the rep is tagged right along with the rep. People instigate shit for a laugh and all of a sudden a grain of worthless sand becomes a mountain because people "think" they know who took one from their pile. Nothing more than a major distraction from good debate in my opinion.
Don't take this as me bitching about your site Vollmer, I thoroughly enjoy Nodak angler and I have nothing negative to say, This is 2 cents worth of positive criticism , Nothing more nothing less.

 

[lunkerslayer]

I like the rep system because I have gotten good reps from those who don't give me thumbs up or comment on my posts but will hit me up with some reps. The ones who cry because of the bad reps Davey, are not used to getting their hand slapped for bad behavior ,so used to being in a certain group of members those buddies would never do such an awful thing as slap my hand, which exactly what happens when you kick the hornets nest . I don give out bad reps only good reps those who got dinged in th past are know longer relevant to me. Those who have gotten bad reps need to stop whining about them, I like the rep system sometimes that is the only way I know some of you still respect me.

 

[eyexer]

Let's get the 640 for a gratis on the ballot for us all to vote on. To hell with the legislature.

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This pretty much says it all from that G&F synopsis.

"15,714 buck licenses were available in the drawing after 13,219 gratis and 432 nonresident licenses were withheld".

There isn't even close to 13,219 farmers in this state. And why the hell are there 432 non residents getting buck tags. that's assinine.

 

[lunkerslayer]

That still doesn't address the problem with land owners owning all the land in the unit that needs to be changed as well. 640 doesn't change anything if you can't get to hunt that unit

 

[eyexer]

That still doesn't address the problem with land owners owning all the land in the unit that needs to be changed as well. 640 doesn't change anything if you can't get to hunt that unit

but it'll go a long ways toward increasing the herd.

 

[lunkerslayer]

but it'll go a long ways toward increasing the herd.

NDGF still have no way to calculate how many deer numbers there is from one year to the next. If land owners have herds on their land but can't be accounted for still doesn't solve the issue.

 

[KDM]

NDGF still have no way to calculate how many deer numbers there is from one year to the next. If land owners have herds on their land but can't be accounted for still doesn't solve the issue.

Not picking on you lunker, but THIS IS COMPLETE AND UTTER BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!! There are scientifically validated methodologies for surveying any number of animal species using multiple techniques (Aerial, Road, Fixed Point, Timed Measurement, and many more) and they are all readily available with accompanying statistical analysis protocols. The G&F preach about how they have all these aerial survey blocks for white tails across the state that they use to estimate deer numbers. The problem is THEY NEVER FLY THE F'N BLOCKS and all you need to do to prove it to yourself is to ask them for the last 15 years of their surveillance reports. I did and my unit hasn't been surveyed in over a decade. Most of the blocks have a statement of "Was not flown" or some derivation. I've asked them "How then, do you know how many deer tags to give out if you don't even know how many deer there are??

I'm tired of harping on the same thing over and over again so maybe someone else can care enough to ask and find out the answers.

Here's the latest I received from the Mr. Jeb Williams when I asked him AFTER we had an almost statewide snow event that blanketed much of ND in white.....


[FONT=wf_segoe-ui_normal]Hi Kirk...big game staff have conducted moose surveys in various parts of the state and none of the areas provided adequate snow cover for wt surveys. We did a few test flights in the NE and found the same thing. Some parts of some survey blocks were ok but other areas were not which can skew the results if you don't have consistent snow cover throughout. This was all prior to the warm period we have now had over the last couple of weeks....which was somewhat unfortunate as we felt we were one decent snow event away from flying in certain areas. We will wait to see what the remaining winter brings us. I hope all is well with you. Take care. Jeb

Sent from my iPhone[/FONT]
[FONT=wf_segoe-ui_normal]
On Feb 14, 2016, at 10:38 AM, Kirk Mundal <kirk.mundal@hotmail.com> wrote:

[/FONT]

Good morning Mr. William, since we have good snow cover this year, is there any plans on doing a Whitetail Survey?


Thank You!


Kirk Mundal

So basically Mr. Williams is AGAIN saying they didn't do any aerial surveys for white tails and they will be waiting to see what happens.

For all you guys crying about landowners getting the tags you think you should have, try calling the G&F and find out when was the last time they flew a white tail survey in your hunting unit. It just may be that there are MORE deer out there and there should be more opportunity to hunt deer in your unit. However, if nobody cares enough to find out the facts concerning the the way the NDGF handles the white tail deer herd estimation and the numbers of tags that need to be given out, then I guess you have to just take what you're given and be quiet.

​

 

[lunkerslayer]

Thanks KDM, but what about areas of heavy cover where the only way to actually count is to put people on the ground? Do they do aireal photos during the winter? Maybe with the help of UAV this will get better thanks KDM.
Also that has nothing to do with non land owners getting 0 tags over land owners, doesn't stop the entitlement aspect. There has to be congressman who we can contact on this land owners get multiple family members getting multiple tags for privately owned land.

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Maybe land owners can do their part by actually doing a head count on their land.

 

[KDM]

I've asked the NDGF why they don't start a ground survey program using a predetermined route like they do for waterfowl, pheasants, and other game species. Their reply was that the data isn't as good as an aerial survey. Well Now......I think that ANY data collected by using another surveillance technique would be A DAMN SIGHT BETTER THAN THE BIG FAT ZERO THEY ARE GETTING NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But what the hell do I know. I only have a PhD in a biological field and have done surveillance work on 3 F'N CONTINENTS!!!!

If you can't tell I'm pissed off at the run around from the NDGF and the rampant ignorance of the deer hunters who really aren't interested in getting educated on how the system that decides tag numbers works, but would rather just complain about what they are given instead of demanding they be provided scientifically based population estimates to determine tag numbers instead of politics, subjective surveys, and guesswork.

RANT OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DJE]

If you don't like it go buy some land and pay taxes on it every year. Between my dad and I we pay over 15k a year for our gratis tags plus we feed them. If anyone wants to pitch in your more than welcome to hunt it.:;:stirthepot

 

[lunkerslayer]

I've asked the NDGF why they don't start a ground survey program using a predetermined route like they do for waterfowl, pheasants, and other game species. Their reply was that the data isn't as good as an aerial survey. Well Now......I think that ANY data collected by using another surveillance technique would be A DAMN SIGHT BETTER THAN THE BIG FAT ZERO THEY ARE GETTING NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But what the hell do I know. I only have a PhD in a biological field and have done surveillance work on 3 F'N CONTINENTS!!!!

If you can't tell I'm pissed off at the run around from the NDGF and the rampant ignorance of the deer hunters who really aren't interested in getting educated on how the system that decides tag numbers works, but would rather just complain about what they are given instead of demanding they be provided scientifically based population estimates to determine tag numbers instead of politics, subjective surveys, and guesswork.

RANT OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!

How many deer are on your land KDM? How about your neighbors land KDM maybe since full time farmers have extra time on their hands in the off growing season, farmers can go out and do some scouting for NDGF.

 

[SDMF]

RANT OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!

I doubt it. :;:stirthepot

 

[lunkerslayer]

If you don't like it go buy some land and pay taxes on it every year. Between my dad and I we pay over 15k a year for our gratis tags plus we feed them. If anyone wants to pitch in your more than welcome to hunt it.:;:stirthepot

;:;rofl yeah OK DJE you keep telling yourself that is the truth, but not all land owners are in that category, how many deer are on your land since you feed them.? It still doesn't address multiple gratis tags for multiple families

 

[KDM]

Unfortunately, when people other than the researcher takes data, you introduce what's known as "Data Bias". That means that each person will "introduce" a new level of error into the data set by using their own set of ideas and agenda. Example: A landowner wants to hunt big bucks and as such reports that there are very few deer on his property thinking that the results will be fewer tags and fewer hunters and more older deer. Conversely, A landowner wants all deer gone as they eat his hay so he reports lots of deer on his property thinking that the results will be more tags and more hunters with more deer gone. Everyone has their own agenda which is why the hunter surveys are not a good method of estimating deer populations. A non-biased sample set is VITAL to getting the most accurate data possible. I've put forth ideas about training folks to take pics of a certain field at the same time of day for two weeks and sending the pics to the NDGF to make counts, but then why can't the NDGF go out and take their own pics to be analysed for deer numbers themselves. It's really NOT that difficult to put together a workable ground survey program using any number of options, but apparently it is in ND.

 

[DJE]

I haven't had a deer tag for 2 years not even a gratis I send in for the drawing every year if I get one I hunt if I don't I don't run to the GF and ask for a landowner tag. That said my chances are the same as yours. I've actually never had a gratis tag but all this bad mouthing farmers I might have to start. And we do post our land but if people ask most of the time we let them on that way we know who and when people are out there.

 

[lunkerslayer]

If I go out and do my own survey on private land am I going to get arrested for trespassing. If I do get good accurate numbers on my unit will I get dibs on a buck tag that year. No KDM it still has everything to do with private land and non land owners getting the best possible chance to fill the tag.

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I haven't had a deer tag for 2 years not even a gratis I send in for the drawing every year if I get one I hunt if I don't I don't run to the GF and ask for a landowner tag. That said my chances are the same as yours. I've actually never had a gratis tag but all this bad mouthing farmers I might have to start. And we do post our land but if people ask most of the time we let them on that way we know who and when people are out there.

DJE, I don't know who you are but like I said before you are not the normal land owners but more like a exception to the rule but you did stay you were paying 15,000 clams for your gratis tag. Thank you for sharing also would like to say that I am not bad mouthing ALL land owners, KDM is a good man I can tell by what he does for those who have little options for a successful hunt, he is an exception to the rule. If more land owners were like him then we wouldn't need to bad mouth All land owners.

 

[FightingSioux]

Sorry arrowem I couldn't resist... Don't get your internet panties in a bunch!

 

[KDM]

Now you are showing your true motives Lunker. It's NOT the landowners fault in any way shape or form that people don't get tags. If you don't like the gratis tag system, talk to your legislators and try to get it changed, but be prepared for push back as I am a landowner and will lobby against you in such an issue. I don't think vilifying landowners will improve hunting opportunities for non land owners, but that of course is just my opinion.