How to preserve hunting when all land is posted

[Bed Wetter]

- make ditches and section lines open to hunting: just like you can fish a navigable waterway that touches someone’s land, you should be able to hunt navigable roads and trails.

In retrospect, this is a really stupid idea. Would be a complete shit show. Every “Hunter” driving around shooting at everything from the truck, then claiming it was on the section line. Dumpster fire. This would not create “hunting opportunities.”

 

[Kurtr]

You'll never "preserve " hunting for the average Joe hunter. Its becoming an elitist sport, where only those who can afford it will do it. People will save up and it will become a one or two trips a year for people. The hand writing is on the wall, just look at areas of SD where it's been pay to play for 2 generations. Average guys don't hunt, at all. It used to be a perk of living out here in rural America, but that's soon disappearing. I lived a year in the area of SD that started pay hunting. The Average Joes perception of hunters was more negative than positive. "Hunters" were seen as rich boys who came out here to party raise hell. There was a lot of that going on for sure down there. The average Joe that hangs in there may still go, but not as often, and having to spend a lot to do it. The public ground will get hammered more than it does now. Future is bleek

I have to disagree. I have hunted public land since the first day I moved here and consistently kill any thing I want to. My father in law has lived here his whole life and he says people like to talk about the good old days but looking back game numbers are way higher now . If a person wants to they find places to hunt and are successful it just takes a little work and not just driving out to a spot.

- - - Updated - - -

In retrospect, this is a really stupid idea. Would be a complete shit show. Every “Hunter” driving around shooting at everything from the truck, then claiming it was on the section line. Dumpster fire. This would not create “hunting opportunities.”

it doesn’t really. You can shoot birds from the ditch is all we can do and it’s not that big of deal. Little fun fact hunting numbers are way up since they made everything posted here. I don’t think you need straw man arguments like that. What you need are the actual land owners who want it to stay the way it is to step up and sound off. You need the sportsman orgs to go lobby on your behalf. You need to get the nr everyone hates coming waterfowl hunting to write letter on the behalf of the nd sportsman to keep it the way it is. The general public Dont give a shit about depredation or any of that . Private property rights sounds pretty compelling when stated out of context that’s the challenge you guys face is explaining it. Just my opinion from the outside looking in.

 

[zoops]

Please provide specifics as to how the current NDGF mgmt of our natural resources, and lack of forward thinking will negatively impact the next generation. (Good god I sound like GST).
I'm genuinely curious.

I'd also be curious to hear some ideas that GnF could use to further hunting opportunities. Seems most things that would help, like increasing CRP acreage or limiting NR's, are really out of their hands.

To add my .02 to the ditch/section line thing, if it comes to having to pick roosters out of road ditches being my primary means of hunting, I think I'll stick to fishing.

 

[scrotcaster]

Why are you guys throwing in the towel in the everything posted fight? this battle aint over

 

[Bed Wetter]

Why are you guys throwing in the towel in the everything posted fight? this battle aint over

Not throwing in the towel. Making a point.

 

[PrairieGhost]

BW I think the outfitters are going to put out a hit on you. ::laughing:: Keep up the good thinking. There are people who would sell our heritage for a few bucks, and I thinkthis is more about tying up land and money than trespassing.

 

[savage270]

Very interesting topic and some good ideas mentioned already. Here are a few more to throw in the hopper:

- Don't eliminate gratis tags, but if you get one you have to allow some public hunting on that land after opening weekend. I own land in Minnesota and that is how it works there and seems to work well.

- Set up some sort of fund (extra license fee, general fund allocation, non-resident landowner tax, etc.) that the GF can use to get the leases on certain state school land parcels to develop for wildlife. While this wouldn't open up more land, it would greatly improve the habitat and wildlife numbers on public land that generally holds little game due to overgrazing, etc.

- Increase the penalties SEVERELY for trespassing, littering, etc as well as for hunter harassment. This should help thin the assholes from both the hunter and landowner groups.

 

[Kentucky Windage]

I’ve never understood how or why selling the peoples fish and game is legal.
#nomoreguides

 

[ndlongshot]

I’ve never understood how or why selling the peoples fish and game is legal.
#nomoreguides

I fully, FULLY, agree with the sentiment. Can't stand them. Although, I dont want to trash all the honest guys...but definitely attracts slime balls and think its terrible for the future of our hunting heritage in places like ND because of land leasing. Wish they had to own the land.

That said, they aren't selling the game. They are providing access and selling a service, not the game itself. Thats how its justified. Clients still have to buy all appropriate licenses like you and me. They just pull the trigger and other people do the hunting.

I do like the idea of landowners selling access needing to obtain a outfitter license? Although thats tough to police under the table payments.

 

[Kentucky Windage]

Where’s my cut of the money after the guides sell our fish and game?

 

[ORCUS DEMENS]

Before moving to ND, everywhere I have hunted was by landowner permission. If you were stopped by G&F while hunting around private land you had better have that written permission or you were facing fines. Did this prevent me from hunting, no. I made some wonderful friendships from this. As to guides/or pay for play hunting, you are not buying public game, you are paying for the opportunity. Ask most guide to guarantee you harvest a limit and see their reaction. Public animals, unless high fenced are free to roam where they will. ASS to shooting from or along the road or ditches, In other states that would cost you a fine and your firearm.

 

[Kentucky Windage]

Where’s my cut of the money after the guides sell our fish and game?

I think I’m going to call J G Wentworth.

 

[Rut2much]

Where did you move from if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Traxion]

As I've stated before, I see both sides of it being from SD. Here is my take on a few of the ideas-

-You still need to provide a landowner opportunity to get a tag. Maybe it isn't free, but they must basically get a guaranteed license in the draw for their unit. It should be good on their own land only with a cost to cover the tag printing & administrative part at least. This is common courtesy to the folks who are raising the wildlife each year.

-Any public ROW should be open to hunting. Birds must rise from within the ROW to be legal, if they cross the fence they are still fair game. SD tried to do the "iron fence" where you had to shoot them over the ROW and it doesn't work. Public is public. Lots of this goes on in SD and while road hunting doesn't have a great rep, it is an opportunity for some.

-You still need units for management purposes. No real way around that. If nobody can hunt and deer numbers get out of hand, that alone can be used to justify access. You can't complain about too many deer if you don't allow hunting access.


If it really came to this, I think the biggest thing that should be in the law is the ability to post OPEN TO HUNTING signs if the landowner desires. I know my relatives won't want to be harassed all harvest season. The G&F should provide these free of charge. Sportsmans organizations should help with install if landowners request. And DO NOT put this on a map...make it so you have to be there and see it with your own eyes.

I have no idea on the number of guides or landowners charging access is in any part of ND. However, my inlaws are in south central SD. I don't know if there is any other area in the northern US that has more commercial pheasant hunting operations, absentee landowners who purchased land only for hunting, or landowners that charge access. If you do ever get to this point, there is no way to go back from it. The culture changes so significantly that hunting is just a dollar sign. People in that area see pheasant hunting as walking food plot strips. Telling them to walk that grassy creek bottom and they look at you funny. But you'll never be able to discourage them from doing this with insurance requirements, etc. or taxing out of state hunters. They'll pay the insurance (most do already) and the OOS guys will pay the fee. Its like going down a road into Ft. Peck in a rainstorm.....once you go down, you ain't getting out.

 

[Downrigger]

I’ve been rolling around ideas for making changes to existing G&F statutes if all land becomes posted. In the USA, all game is considered the possession of “the people.” These are not the kings fowl. To maintain this North American model of wildlife conservation, our approach to hunting/trapping laws will have to change dramatically if all private land becomes default posted.

I have some ideas. Some of these ideas may be dumber then others, so feel free to make suggestions and point out flaws. It’s not helpful to come up with retaliatory rules, I just want to keep on hunting in ND without it being a commercial affair.

GST, get your keyboard ready so you can misconstrue what’s discussed here later for political purposes.

- Land posted “PLOTS” or “open to hunting” or otherwise enrolled as CRP acreage is open to hunting/trapping without landowner permission.
- Eliminate gratis tags: otherwise these deer become “the landowners’ deer”
- Eliminate hunting units or dramatically reduce the total number of units: you may have to search far and wide to fill a tag. G&F can adjust the total available tags accordingly.
- make ditches and section lines open to hunting: just like you can fish a navigable waterway that touches someone’s land, you should be able to hunt navigable roads and trails.
- require landowners who earn income from granting land access to possess liability insurance (whether hunting, development, rigging, etc.)
- require landowners or leasers who earn income from granting land access for the taking of game to possess an outfitters license. (Exclusion for sportsman who exchange agricultural labor services in return for access.)
- access ND Legacy funds for establishing recreational shooting areas
- access ND Legacy funds for purchasing property to be permanently devoted to wildlife habitat and public sporting opportunities
- establish an excise tax from non-resident hunting license fees to fund the maintenance of publicly owned/operated wildlife habitat.

What else?

Obviously, much of this would require legislative action. Some of it agency policy. Some of it constitutional amendments.

MN is all posted, not hard getting access. Maybe teach people to get off their cell phones and knock on some doors, do some research. And before you go, there are a lot of landowners that don't live here, same in MN. I deer hunt an investors property and he lives in Florida, and always has.

Going after the landowners is the last thing people should want to do, then there will be no access.

 

[savage270]

MN is all posted, not hard getting access. Maybe teach people to get off their cell phones and knock on some doors, do some research. And before you go, there are a lot of landowners that don't live here, same in MN. I deer hunt an investors property and he lives in Florida, and always has.

Going after the landowners is the last thing people should want to do, then there will be no access.

Is that true? It was my understanding that all MN farmland is considered posted, but forest land still needs to be posted or it is open for hunting.

 

[Skeeter]

MN is all posted, not hard getting access. Maybe teach people to get off their cell phones and knock on some doors, do some research. And before you go, there are a lot of landowners that don't live here, same in MN. I deer hunt an investors property and he lives in Florida, and always has.

Going after the landowners is the last thing people should want to do, then there will be no access.

i couldn’t agree more with the statement “get off your cell phone and knock on some doors”. This fall I was inundated with phone calls to get permission to hunt on the ranch. I’ve had no say in the hunting end for many years now so I couldn’t figure out why. Then it dawned on me that my dads name is on the land and I happen to have the same name so the info on the map apps lead them to me. I politely told the callers the situation and gave them contact info for my brother until one guy got smart and decided to be a dick to me so I quit answering un known numbers. I asked my brother if any of these people tried calling him and he flat told me he doesn’t answer his phone starting in august unless it’s a number he knows. He said if they can’t shake my hand and look me in the eye they have zero chance of getting access.

 

[MarbleEyez]

Where’s my cut of the money after the guides sell our fish and game?

My family, myself included, farms and ranch as a "hobby". This year I had a good chunk of ground that was in row crops and I was just finishing up harvesting the second week of rifle season. We didn't have the land posted and there was people on one of the quarters throughout the weekend. One of them stopped me and thanked me for not having it posted and asked if we mind if he drove in to retrieve his deer, as he just harvested a couple does. He came up, shook my hand and thanked me for the opportunity.

We leave in roughly 40ac every year for the wildlife. Mainly corn/sunflowers. That's roughly $9,000, and we do tree plantings and other things on top of that. We all obtain gratis tags every year, which on average we only fill 1 of those a year. My "cut of the money" is shooting a rooster over my dog in the fall and getting a chance at one of the mature bucks that I've helped nourish along the way since they were a fawn.

Everyone who complains about not having access isn't looking very hard. All it takes is a conversation and the gates will open. The gentleman who took 5 min out of his time to make it a point to thank me and shake my hand, he'll have access to the ground as long as I'm around.

 

[Migrator Man]

I’ve been rolling around ideas for making changes to existing G&F statutes if all land becomes posted. In the USA, all game is considered the possession of “the people.” These are not the kings fowl. To maintain this North American model of wildlife conservation, our approach to hunting/trapping laws will have to change dramatically if all private land becomes default posted.

I have some ideas. Some of these ideas may be dumber then others, so feel free to make suggestions and point out flaws. It’s not helpful to come up with retaliatory rules, I just want to keep on hunting in ND without it being a commercial affair.

GST, get your keyboard ready so you can misconstrue what’s discussed here later for political purposes.

- Land posted “PLOTS” or “open to hunting” or otherwise enrolled as CRP acreage is open to hunting/trapping without landowner permission.
- Eliminate gratis tags: otherwise these deer become “the landowners’ deer”
- Eliminate hunting units or dramatically reduce the total number of units: you may have to search far and wide to fill a tag. G&F can adjust the total available tags accordingly.
- make ditches and section lines open to hunting: just like you can fish a navigable waterway that touches someone’s land, you should be able to hunt navigable roads and trails.
- require landowners who earn income from granting land access to possess liability insurance (whether hunting, development, rigging, etc.)
- require landowners or leasers who earn income from granting land access for the taking of game to possess an outfitters license. (Exclusion for sportsman who exchange agricultural labor services in return for access.)
- access ND Legacy funds for establishing recreational shooting areas
- access ND Legacy funds for purchasing property to be permanently devoted to wildlife habitat and public sporting opportunities
- establish an excise tax from non-resident hunting license fees to fund the maintenance of publicly owned/operated wildlife habitat.

What else?

Obviously, much of this would require legislative action. Some of it agency policy. Some of it constitutional amendments.

There won’t be many non residents that come to hunt if everything is posted. They will all just go to Canada where the hunting is better and Access is easy. The transition to Canada has already started and this would be the knife in the coffin.

 

[PrairieGhost]

Marbleye if all farmers were like you things would be wonderful. Consider I am virtually shaking your hand. Not for access I have more than I can hunt in the fall. Just because i would like to shake your hand.

That said, they aren't selling the game. They are providing access and selling a service

I don't believe that for a second. If the game wasn't there they wouldn't draw customers. You can look at it both ways and be right both ways.