Depredation ELK tags for Landowners

[ndlongshot]

Now they want to give landowners depredation elk tags. They already get gratis tags repeatedly. Isnt this why we had an elk reduction at TR? Landowners who wouldnt give access to antlerless tag holders?

How about fencing to keep the elk out of hay yards, and letting ND hunters have a chance at them? If ND hunters can't keep cow elk at bay on private land, neither will a pocketful of depredation tags that may or may not be handed out to buddies/family. (not sure thats how it will work).

Smells like BS to me.

 

[lunkerslayer]

Yeah well most people who put in for an elk tag don't put in for a once-in-a-lifetime antlerless

 

[WalleyeGuy80]

Yeah well most people who put in for an elk tag don't put in for a once-in-a-lifetime antlerless

Yea well looking at the G&F 2022 and 2021 statistics it seems more people apply for a once-in-a-lifetime antlerless tag than number of tags available. So either they should raise the number of tags in said units or require the landowners to grant hunters access to the land to help control the population.

 

[lunkerslayer]

Ndgf may give out more antlerless tags but more people by all total applications are looking for the any elk tag.
For the record I am in agreement that the ndgf needs to allow more antlerless tags if applicable

 

[measure-it]

It's the "landowner granting hunting access to hunters" problem...if they let the public hunt these elk on their land, they wouldn't have depredation problems!

 

[NG3067]

landowners eligible for a gratis elk tag have a pretty sweet deal, may as well sweeten it even more and allow them depredation tags.

 

[lunkerslayer]

Well I know for a fact it's not all landowners here in E1E, especially the land owners who own land adjacent to the Pembina gorge. The ndgf needs to let the landowners decide on how many antlerless tags they want to allow on their land any particular year. But the ndgf don't have damn clue how to manage shit when it comes to herd management, ask any farmer how much destruction elk herds do to standing crops. The herd that comes out of Canada are in the hundreds and farmers I know have complained to the local ndgf and its like the big cheeses would rather take care of the problem by purging a herd then allow landowners have a say.
You get the landowners in a region who want to participate in a herd management program that allows the landowners to give out antlerless tags to willing particpants who can only harvest an antlerless on their land or a conglomerate of land owners. I know it's worked in the past in other states who allowed landowners to sell tags for deer herd management maybe @Kurtr can chime in since he was the one I believe had talked about this kind of tactic in South Dakota.

 

[Kurtr]

Well I know for a fact it's not all landowners here in E1E, especially the land owners who own land adjacent to the Pembina gorge. The ndgf needs to let the landowners decide on how many antlerless tags they want to allow on their land any particular year. But the ndgf don't have damn clue how to manage shit when it comes to herd management, ask any farmer how much destruction elk herds do to standing crops. The herd that comes out of Canada are in the hundreds and farmers I know have complained to the local ndgf and its like the big cheeses would rather take care of the problem by purging a herd then allow landowners have a say.
You get the landowners in a region who want to participate in a herd management program that allows the landowners to give out antlerless tags to willing particpants who can only harvest an antlerless on their land or a conglomerate of land owners. I know it's worked in the past in other states who allowed landowners to sell tags for deer herd management maybe @Kurtr can chime in since he was the one I believe had talked about this kind of tactic in South Dakota.

Nope wasn’t me. Can’t do that down here but if you don’t let people hunt the gfp might not help with damages. Up to warden’s discretion

 

[lunkerslayer]

Nope wasn’t me. Can’t do that down here but if you don’t let people hunt the gfp might not help with damages. Up to warden’s discretion

Ok thanks I guess i was mistaken then that was a program in South Dakota to deal with herd management. Well for what it's worth the ndgf have maybe 2 wardens for a district that hold in excess of hundred of thousands of acres of land that needs to be look after. The guy I get my corn from owns land adjacent to the gorge 3 years ago an elk died in his corn field told the local game warden and the elk sat out his field all summer long.

 

[db-2]

When it comes to elk in nd, game and fish has no clue and are not interested in finding a clue. No interest in listening or believing in the public. They know all. db

 

[Lycanthrope]

If they want to reduce cow elk numbers, they should have a lottery that isnt once in a lifetime... Leave bull elk as is.

 

[lunkerslayer]

When it comes to elk in nd, game and fish has no clue and are not interested in finding a clue. No interest in listening or believing in the public. They know all. db

Yep I agree it seems the ones that don't have the time and money to put up high fence areas don't mind if they could thin out the herd instead of how they use to do it wait for the elk to catch a disease and slaughter the hole herd once they effect a farmers cattle. Landowners who want herd management will support this program with open arms, and will have no problem getting hunters who are willing to pay for some good meat.

 

[WalleyeGuy80]

If they want to reduce cow elk numbers, they should have a lottery that isnt once in a lifetime... Leave bull elk as is.

I totally agree, but until the number of tags available is larger than the applicants I don't see a need for change. Here are the numbers off the G&F web site. https://gf.nd.gov/licensing/lotteries/summary/elk

 

[lunkerslayer]

I totally agree, but until the number of tags available is larger than the applicants I don't see a need for change. Here are the numbers off the G&F web site. https://gf.nd.gov/licensing/lotteries/summary/elk

Based on your original post you were incorrect about the amount of any elk vs antlerless tags. 14 out of 3600 vs 80 out of 180 isn't what I would call a majority looking for an antlerless tag.
Just look at E1E for an example at the total people who were lucky enough to draw compared to the ones who didnt.
I mean granted once you open this can of worms the land owners who are not going to participate will eventually have the whole herd on their property exampe would be kenny johnson who owns land right off the tdr wildlife management area I know this won't be an issues since the majority of the herds comes out of Canada. There are literally hundreds of head in these herds with no natural predators to keep them at bay

The ndgf does not have the man power or the resources to implement a head count in the e1e, this is a fact. So let the farmers who want herd management have access to the tags.

 

[WalleyeGuy80]

Based on your original post you were incorrect about the amount of any elk vs antlerless tags. 14 out of 3600 vs 80 out of 180 isn't what I would call a majority looking for an antlerless tag.
Just look at E1E for an example at the total people who were lucky enough to draw compared to the ones who didnt.
I mean granted once you open this can of worms the land owners who are not going to participate will eventually have the whole herd on their property exampe would be kenny johnson who owns land right off the tdr wildlife management area I know this won't be an issues since the majority of the herds comes out of Canada. There are literally hundreds of head in these herds with no natural predators to keep them at bay

The ndgf does not have the man power or the resources to implement a head count in the e1e, this is a fact. So let the farmers who want herd management have access to the tags.

I am not disagreeing the majority of the people are looking for the bull tags, and never said there aren't, but the numbers the G&F are providing still show more people are applying for antlerless tags than tags available. So it stands to reason the simplest solution to the said problem of to many elk in a unit is you want the numbers lowered raise the number of tags available. If the number of tags available out grow the applicants then they need to look at other options.

 

[lunkerslayer]

I am not disagreeing the majority of the people are looking for the bull tags, and never said there aren't, but the numbers the G&F are providing still show more people are applying for antlerless tags than tags available. So it stands to reason the simplest solution to the said problem of to many elk in a unit is you want the numbers lowered raise the number of tags available. If the number of tags available out grow the applicants then they need to look at other options.

Ok ok thanks for clarification bud, i agree more tags need to be allotted where head counts of herds can be accessible by the ndgf. The problem is the ndgf have no clue how to manage any of the wild game in this state. There is simply not enough man power or resources to accomplish this especially since some land owners are ok with the way the ndgf are already managing these herds. I will agree that more tags need to be available no matter how its done to help keep these herds from destroying crops and possibly infecting ranchers livestock. Because that is exactly what happened in Minnesota 20 years ago over by green bush rosaseu area the herd got infected ended up infecting a farmers livestock and the dnr ended up culling at least 2 herds and no one was able to get the meat.

 

[wjschmaltz]

The inner hippie/environmental part of me feels like it takes a lot of gall to put a ranch somewhere elk/deer/whatever live and then complain about the elk/deer/whatever eating you out of home. Depredation tags should not be awarded until the landowner has shown that they have made an honest attempt at cutting down their wildlife numbers and conflict. That should include providing hunting opportunity to the public and taking advantage of the hay yards offered by the state. I've had these conversations at length with uncles that before the last couple of years have housed hundreds of deer in their hay yards all winter. It's real easy to find people (especially kids!) to come and knock down an easy doe on the land owner's terms. Several people on here and other social media are looking for cow moose/elk every season in ND.

In ND, is the "once in a lifetime" only applicable if the tag is filled? I feel like it's once in a lifetime regardless of if it's filled or not but I'm not sure on this and too lazy to look. My opinion is if the tag goes unfilled, the hunter should be able to enter the draw again. I don't like the fact that people feel the pressure to just fill a tag because they can no longer hold the tag. I feel like that's a poor practice. Other states have the system I've described in place where they're only kicked out in the future if the tag is filled.

 

[lunkerslayer]

The inner hippie/environmental part of me feels like it takes a lot of gall to put a ranch somewhere elk/deer/whatever live and then complain about the elk/deer/whatever eating you out of home. Depredation tags should not be awarded until the landowner has shown that they have made an honest attempt at cutting down their wildlife numbers and conflict. That should include providing hunting opportunity to the public and taking advantage of the hay yards offered by the state. I've had these conversations at length with uncles that before the last couple of years have housed hundreds of deer in their hay yards all winter. It's real easy to find people (especially kids!) to come and knock down an easy doe on the land owner's terms. Several people on here and other social media are looking for cow moose/elk every season in ND.

In ND, is the "once in a lifetime" only applicable if the tag is filled? I feel like it's once in a lifetime regardless of if it's filled or not but I'm not sure on this and too lazy to look. My opinion is if the tag goes unfilled, the hunter should be able to enter the draw again. I don't like the fact that people feel the pressure to just fill a tag because they can no longer hold the tag. I feel like that's a poor practice. Other states have the system I've described in place where they're only kicked out in the future if the tag is filled.

Yes its once in a lifetime no matter of the tag is filled atleast it was for me when I didn't get another chance to hunt for a cow moose in 94.

 

[Allen]

Ok thanks I guess i was mistaken then that was a program in South Dakota to deal with herd management. Well for what it's worth the ndgf have maybe 2 wardens for a district that hold in excess of hundred of thousands of acres of land that needs to be look after. The guy I get my corn from owns land adjacent to the gorge 3 years ago an elk died in his corn field told the local game warden and the elk sat out his field all summer long.

Are you suggesting the NDGF should have cleaned up this fellas land for him by removing the elk?

 

[WalleyeGuy80]

Depredation tags should not be awarded until the landowner has shown that they have made an honest attempt at cutting down their wildlife numbers and conflict. That should include providing hunting opportunity to the public and taking advantage of the hay yards offered by the state. I've had these conversations at length with uncles that before the last couple of years have housed hundreds of deer in their hay yards all winter. It's real easy to find people (especially kids!) to come and knock down an easy doe on the land owner's terms.

^^^^^this 1000%^^^^