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    1. Back To Top    #1
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      Is it immoral to drive an electric vehicle?

      Of all the crazy policies we see implemented around us, from decriminalizing theft to teaching children to change their “gender,” perhaps the craziest is government’s determination to force us to drive electric vehicles. EVs like the Tesla are perfectly fine cars, or would be if they weren’t subsidized or mandated. But they are terrible for the environment, and the conditions under which their materials are mined raise serious ethical questions.

      Ronald Stein makes excellent points in his column titled “Is it ethical to purchase a lithium battery powered EV?”
      The lower image is just one lithium supply mine where entire mountains are eliminated. Each mine usually consists of thirty-five to forty humongous 797 Caterpillar haul trucks along with hundreds of other large equipment. Each 797 uses around half a million gallons of diesel a year. So, with an inventory of just thirty-five the haul trucks alone are using 17.5 million gallons of fuel a year for just one lithium site.
      ***
      Today, a typical EV battery weighs one thousand pounds. It contains twenty-five pounds of lithium, sixty pounds of nickel, 44 pounds of manganese, 30 pounds cobalt, 200 pounds of copper, and 400 pounds of aluminum, steel, and plastic. Inside are over 6,000 individual lithium-ion cells.

      It should concern you that all those toxic components come from mining. For instance, to manufacture each EV auto battery, you must process 25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium, 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt, 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel, and 25,000 pounds of ore for copper. All told, you dig up 500,000 pounds of the earth’s crust for just one battery.
      Fossil fuels are vastly cleaner, in part because they are so efficient. And electric vehicles, once the mining and attendant environmental degradation are complete, run overwhelmingly on fossil fuels and nuclear power:
      We should all know that an electric vehicle battery does not “make” electricity – it only stores electricity produced elsewhere, primarily by coal, uranium, natural gas-powered plants, and occasionally by intermittent breezes and sunshine. So, to say an EV is a zero-emission vehicle is not at all valid as 80 percent of the electricity generated to charge the batteries is from coal, natural gas, and nuclear.
      Since twenty percent of the electricity generated in the U.S is from coal-fired plants, it follows that twenty percent of the EVs on the road are coal-powered.
      Since forty percent of the electricity generated in the U.S is from natural gas, it follows that forty percent of the EVs on the road are natural gas-powered.
      Since twenty percent of the electricity generated in the U.S is from nuclear, it follows that twenty percent of the EVs on the road are nuclear-powered.
      The extraordinary amounts of mining needed to produce electric vehicles are not only environmentally disastrous, they also carry large human costs. The cobalt that is needed for every electric vehicle comes mostly from the Congo and is produced by child labor.

      And, of course, to the extent that a tiny percentage of the electricity stored in EV batteries comes from solar panels, they are mostly produce by slave labor in China. And, for what it’s worth, Chinese solar panels are produced with coal-fired power plants.
      “Green” energy is a catastrophically bad idea. I think many people understand that wind and solar power and electric vehicles are economically ruinous, but when we also take into account environmental degradation and child and slave labor, one can seriously question whether it is immoral to buy an electric car.




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    2. Back To Top    #2
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      I think even wind towers probably leave a bigger net "carbon footprint" over their lifetime than they eliminate. Think of the amount of steel mined, smelted, etc to create one. How many diesel powered trucks does it take to simply get the parts there to assemble one. Not to mention all the heavy machinery to get it up and running.

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    3. Back To Top    #3
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      "Liberal" idiots could make brushing your teeth immoral.



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      Last edited by svnmag; 06-14-2022 at 11:26 AM.
      Uncle Steve defines minnows as any small fish racing around to relax.

      You can't build a wall high enough to stop a vaccine.

      --the significance of the passage of time? RIGHT? So when you think about it; there is great significance in the passage of time and there's SUCH great significance in the passage of time

      Imagine, if you will, a world where every tweet and meme must be fact checked, but not a ballot.

      I’m responsible for what I say, not what you understand.

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      my problem is I don't know who is being honest and truthful. Everywhere you turn someone is saying something... and an alarming amount of the time it is for financial gain, or further their agenda. The trait of humans to convince others to be like them to provide validation is suspect to me.

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      I'm here to chew bubble gum and kick ass.... and I'm all out of bubble gum. RIP Rowdy

    5. Back To Top    #5
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      The environmental impact aside, what good would anyone have for one in this part of the country. The guy on 970 last week said his tesla will make 30 miles in the winter before he has to plug it in, 300 in the summer. Worthless IMO

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      True that, up here, cold climates, rural, not so hot. But if all the city dwellers used them, what would the impact be, would the price of gas be lower?

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      I'm here to chew bubble gum and kick ass.... and I'm all out of bubble gum. RIP Rowdy

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      Quote Originally Posted by WormWiggler View Post
      True that, up here, cold climates, rural, not so hot. But if all the city dwellers used them, what would the impact be, would the price of gas be lower?

      Most of the time in the big cities they tell them they can’t charge them because they don’t have the infrastructure with their power grid to do it, hence why most walk or take public transportation

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      Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
      The environmental impact aside, what good would anyone have for one in this part of the country. The guy on 970 last week said his tesla will make 30 miles in the winter before he has to plug it in, 300 in the summer. Worthless IMO
      I work with a guy that has a Tesla md Y. He was getting roughly 240 miles per charge all winter. He said keeping it warm was never a problem in town. But driving to the cities would not keep the car as warm has He would want

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      Quote Originally Posted by WormWiggler View Post
      my problem is I don't know who is being honest and truthful. Everywhere you turn someone is saying something... and an alarming amount of the time it is for financial gain, or further their agenda. The trait of humans to convince others to be like them to provide validation is suspect to me.
      You know you should question something when the other side is unwilling to debate and proceeds to hurl insults to those questioning the sole called settled science…….

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    10. Back To Top    #10
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      I question everything, everyone.... including myself

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      I'm here to chew bubble gum and kick ass.... and I'm all out of bubble gum. RIP Rowdy

    11. Back To Top    #11
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      The Biden administration is revealing a new set of standards to help accelerate the installation of 500,000 electric vehicle chargers across the US by 2030.

      The new standards give states guidelines on awarding contracts for EV charging projects, directing the companies who get them to build chargers that are convenient, affordable, and accessible to the broadest number of people. And they outline the types of projects that won’t receive federal money, including proprietary charging stations that can only be accessed by one company’s vehicles, like Tesla’s Supercharger network.


      The new standards come as much of President Joe Biden’s climate change fighting agenda remains stalled in Congress. The president was able to secure $5 billion in funding as part of his infrastructure plan that was signed into law late last year. But other elements of his plan, including more lucrative tax breaks for EV buyers, lack a clear path forward.


      Beings our power grid is having rolling blackouts already, I wonder where the power is going to come from for these 500,000 chargers?

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      nuclear, seems inevitable... isn't there some new type on the horizon? Fusion or some shit? Sounds like the current generation are much safer than the old crap that has screwed the pooch, but who knows if trust can be given, especially to all the middle men between the actual science (which only a handful know) and the end product. Make each state have a nuclear power plant for every 1/2 million people. Should power enough cars, hell even most homes. Save the petroleum for the plastic we so dearly love.

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      I'm here to chew bubble gum and kick ass.... and I'm all out of bubble gum. RIP Rowdy

    13. Back To Top    #13
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      Morals are nothing more than a list of laws of conduct that delineate or differentiate good behavior from bad and can be different depending on who made the list.

      Is it immoral to tear up native prairie thereby killing all the plants, insects, and animals presently there while simultaneously destroying their habitat and robbing them of their future generations of their kind, just so you can have wheat for bread??

      Is it immoral to have children, thereby subjecting them to the pain, suffering, turmoil, destruction, and evil currently going on in the world today??

      Is it immoral to live in a 2500 square foot home when families of 12 lived in an 600 square foot one room structure??

      Is it immoral to have a dog that requires food made with ingredients that could be used to feed people such as corn, fish, and chicken thereby forcing people into more hunger??

      Justifications for a yes or no answer to these questions depends entirely on whose laws you follow.

      Throughout time, the only place GOOD MORALS have been found is in the Word of God and are based on His Commandments and Teachings. NOT in the word of men. The word or morals of men are EVER changing and bereft of wisdom or love for one another. The Word of our Heavenly Father is CONSTANT and never changes. Anything can be immoral depending on whose code of conduct you are using. The question is: WHERE DO YOUR MORALS COME FROM? Answer that and the rest falls into place.

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    14. Back To Top    #14
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      People will forgive you for being wrong, but they will never forgive you for being right—especially if events prove you right while proving them wrong.

    15. Back To Top    #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by KDM View Post
      Morals are nothing more than a list of laws of conduct that delineate or differentiate good behavior from bad and can be different depending on who made the list.

      Is it immoral to tear up native prairie thereby killing all the plants, insects, and animals presently there while simultaneously destroying their habitat and robbing them of their future generations of their kind, just so you can have wheat for bread??

      Is it immoral to have children, thereby subjecting them to the pain, suffering, turmoil, destruction, and evil currently going on in the world today??

      Is it immoral to live in a 2500 square foot home when families of 12 lived in an 600 square foot one room structure??

      Is it immoral to have a dog that requires food made with ingredients that could be used to feed people such as corn, fish, and chicken thereby forcing people into more hunger??

      Justifications for a yes or no answer to these questions depends entirely on whose laws you follow.

      Throughout time, the only place GOOD MORALS have been found is in the Word of God and are based on His Commandments and Teachings. NOT in the word of men. The word or morals of men are EVER changing and bereft of wisdom or love for one another. The Word of our Heavenly Father is CONSTANT and never changes. Anything can be immoral depending on whose code of conduct you are using. The question is: WHERE DO YOUR MORALS COME FROM? Answer that and the rest falls into place.
      Could not have said it better myself, and I've tried. Especially your last paragraph. Spot-on, KDM. Perfect.

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      Me, to Shadrap65:
      "What the heck kinda line you got on?!"
      Shadrap65, to me:
      "Fish catchin' line, son!"

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      When/if an EV suits my needs, requirements, and budget, I might buy one. It won't be because a politician, political party, actor, actress, professional athlete, or social media figure says I should. It will be because the model offered fits my needs requirements, and budget.

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      This has been like listening to Nancy Pelosi argue with Ozzy Osborne.

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      What SDMF said. I bet there are plenty of members here who have electric golf carts, I look at a Tesla as nothing but an overgrown golf cart. When one fits my needs, I'll own it. Until then there will be no bullying of me into altering/cramping my lifestyle to make someone else's delusions my reality.

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      "Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself." Mark Twain, speaking on Congress.

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      I love morals sautéed in butter with black pepper and onions. Mmmmmm….morals.
      If only the world had more of them.

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      I wouldn't mind an electric vehicle if there was more testing in our cold climate and proven. Also for instance if I was in, lets say Carrington. If I wanted to go bird hunting or antelope hunting in (pick a town) Bowman, is there charging capabilities anywhere close? I kinda doubt it. Do you need to carry a specialty converted generator with you ?

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    20. Back To Top    #20
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      Long Read and very interesting.


      Do not sell your gas vehicle yet


      Dr. Jay Lehr and Tom Harrisd

      Jan 15, 2022


      The utility companies have thus far had little to say about the alarming cost projections to operate electric vehicles (EVs) or the increased rates that they will be required to charge their customers. It is not just the total amount of electricity required, but the transmission lines and fast charging capacity that must be built at existing filling stations. Neither wind nor solar can support any of it. Electric vehicles will never become the mainstream of transportation!


      The problems with electric vehicles (EVs), we showed that they were too expensive, too unreliable, rely on materials mined in China and other unfriendly countries, and require more electricity than the nation can afford. In this second part, we address other factors that will make any sensible reader avoid EVs like the plague. EV Charging Insanity


      In order to match the 2,000 cars that a typical filling station can service in a busy 12 hours, an EV charging station would require 600, 50-watt chargers at an estimated cost of $24 million and a supply of 30 megawatts of power from the grid. That is enough to power 20,000 homes. No one likely thinks about the fact that it can take 30 minutes to 8 hours to recharge a vehicle between empty or just topping off. What are the drivers doing during that time?


      ICSC-Canada board member New Zealand-based consulting engineer Bryan Leyland describes why installing electric car charging stations in a city is impractical:


      “If you’ve got cars coming into a petrol station, they would stay for an average of five minutes. If you’ve got cars coming into an electric charging station, they would be at least 30 minutes, possibly an hour, but let’s say its 30 minutes. So that’s six times the surface area to park the cars while they’re being charged. So, multiply every petrol station in a city by six. Where are you going to find the place to put them?”


      The government of the United Kingdom is already starting to plan for power shortages caused by the charging of thousands of EVs. Starting in June 2022, the government will restrict the time of day you can charge your EV battery. To do this, they will employ smart meters that are programmed to automatically switch off EV charging in peak times to avoid potential blackouts.


      In particular, the latest UK chargers will be pre-set to not function during 9-hours of peak loads, from 8 am to 11 am (3-hours), and 4 pm to 10 pm (6-hours). Unbelievably, the UK technology decides when and if an EV can be charged, and even allows EV batteries to be drained into the UK grid if required. Imagine charging your car all night only to discover in the morning that your battery is flat since the state took the power back. Better keep your gas-powered car as a reliable and immediately available backup! While EV charging will be an attractive source of revenue generation for the government, American citizens will be up in arms.


      Used Car Market


      The average used EV will need a new battery before an owner can sell it, pricing them well above used internal combustion cars. The average age of an American car on the road is 12 years. A 12-year-old EV will be on its third battery. A Tesla battery typically costs $10,000 so there will not be many 12-year-old EVs on the road. Good luck trying to sell your used green fairy tale electric car!


      Tuomas Katainen, an enterprising Finish Tesla owner, had an imaginative solution to the battery replacement problem—he blew up his car! New York City-based Insider magazine reported (December 27,2021): “The shop told him the faulty battery needed to be replaced, at a cost of about $22,000. In addition to the hefty fee, the work would need to be authorized by Tesla…Rather than shell out half the cost of a new Tesla to fix an old one, Katainen decided to do something different… The demolition experts from the YouTube channel Pommijätkät (Bomb Dudes) strapped 66 pounds of high explosives to the car and surrounded the area with slow-motion cameras…the 14 hotdog-shaped charges erupt into a blinding ball of fire, sending a massive shock wave rippling out from the car…The videos of the explosion have a combined 5 million views.”


      We understand that the standard Tesla warranty does not cover “damage resulting from intentional actions,” like blowing the car up for a YouTube video.


      EVs Per Block In Your Neighborhood


      A home charging system for a Tesla requires a 75-amp service. The average house is equipped with 100-amp service. On most suburban streets the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than three houses with a single Tesla. For half the homes on your block to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly overloaded.


      Batteries


      Although the modern lithium-ion battery is four times better than the old lead-acid battery, gasoline holds 80 times the energy density. The great lithium battery in your cell phone weighs less than an ounce while the Tesla battery weighs 1,000 pounds. And what do we get for this huge cost and weight? We get a car that is far less convenient and less useful than cars powered by internal combustion engines. Bryan Leyland explained why:


      “When the Model T came out, it was a dramatic improvement on the horse and cart. The electric car is a step backward into the equivalence of an ordinary car with a tiny petrol tank that takes half an hour to fill. It offers nothing in the way of convenience or extra facilities.”


      Our Conclusion


      The electric automobile will always be around in a niche market likely never exceeding 10% of the cars on the road. All automobile manufacturers are investing in their output and all will be disappointed in their sales. Perhaps they know this and will manufacture just what they know they can sell. This is certainly not what President Biden or California Governor Newsom are planning for. However, for as long as the present government is in power, they will be pushing the electric car as another means to run our lives. We have a chance to tell them exactly what we think of their expensive and dangerous plans when we go to the polls in November of 2022.


      Dr. Jay Lehr is a Senior Policy Analyst with the International Climate Science Coalition and former Science Director of The Heartland Institute. He is an internationally renowned scientist, author, and speaker who has testified before Congress on dozens of occasions on environmental issues and consulted with nearly every agency of the national government and many foreign countries. After graduating from Princeton University at the age of 20 with a degree in Geological Engineering, he received the nation’s first Ph.D. in Groundwater Hydrology from the University of Arizona. He later became executive director of the National Association of Groundwater Scientists and Engineers.


      Tom Harris is Executive Director of the Ottawa, Canada-based International Climate Science Coalition, and a policy advisor to The Heartland Institute. He has 40 years of experience as a mechanical engineer/project manager, science and technology communications professional, technical trainer, and S&T advisor to a former Opposition Senior Environment Critic in Canada’s Parliament.


      You do not need to have an advanced degree in mathematics to understand the term “Overload”! The average person, no matter where you live, can quickly identify the political feel-good sensation that is being attempted by those short sighted individuals who are promoting the EV revolution….Vehicle manufacturers, Charging station builders, Transmission Line contractors, Battery producers….etc. “It’s Magic”….and you are saving the planet by creating less pollution as you get rid of your gas burning vehicle and take out a five year loan to pay for the shiny new $60,000 electric car. No more fill-ups at the service station and the global warming is solved. You can now sit back and imagine the new polar ice formations that are providing a safe environment for the Polar Bears, Seals, Penguins that we all adore. We have done our part saving humanity…..and you can see the smile on little Greta Thunberg’s face! BUT WAIT….why are we losing power at our house?


      Well the short answer is….We failed to understand that our electrical grid reached max capacity and was overloaded when all of the EV’s were plugged in tonight at the same time. The next short answer is…..where do you think the energy came from to supply the grid in the first place? It sure was not from Wind or Solar….nor from any other alternate energy source we use which, when all combined, only provides 7% of today’s use demand. It was from the traditional combustible resource called Hydrocarbons!


      Until we discover a non-hydrocarbon energy source that is efficient and safe,….we are committed to Oil & Gas!


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      "Don't take life so serious, son. It ain't nohow permanent." Porky Pine 12/25/1973

      Note: "Contents of this post have been read by The CIA, FBI, IRS, DOJ, BATF, DHS, NSA, TSA, EPA, BLM, CDC, WHO, and democrat spies. There is absolutely NO expectation of privacy."

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