Canted Scope Reticle?

[Bed Wetter]

I've got some neat scopes, but I've noticed that the reticles seem canted. I figured it was just me. I mount bubble levels to my scopes and place a small carpenter level on the scope cap or turret, then another level on the rifle frame to ensure all things are level. Then when I look through my scopes, the crosshairs seem canted.

Here's where it gets interesting. Thinking "all my reticles can't be canted" I wanted to place a level at a distance, so I set a jar of water out in the yard. When I level the horizontal crosshair to the water line, my levels are all off. Some are way off, others just a hair.

"Maybe it's some sort of refraction or the object I'm focusing on is too close?" I started ranging "known" level surfaces behind my house at greater distances, i.e. home siding lines and roof pitches. I level my crosshair with the water surface, than swing out to a roof line 1-200 yards directly behind the house and it's level. Look at the bubble level on my turrets and scope tube = canted.

All of my scopes are Leupold... save for one Nightforce. So I get out the rifle with the Nightforce on it and run the same test. NF = dead-nuts level. So now I get on the Googles and start finding articles confirming that Leupold's acceptable level of reticle cant is 3 degrees. Shit.

I don't know guys, I really like my Leupolds but admittedly haven't spent much time behind any of them because I'm relatively new to the optics game. Kind of at a loss on this one. FYI, just picked up a new VX-6 and it seems noticeably canted. That's what started this experiment. Say it ain't so!

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One added note: roof lines sag, as does siding. It's also possible that light refraction is affecting how I see the waterline. I'm going to have to try this with a leveled line on a target at 100 to confirm it. Just wondering if others have had the same experience...

 

[PrairieGhost]

I find the same thing. It can even happen in the more expensive scopes. I use a bubble level on the scope bases, then hang a line on a string in the other room 30 ft away. Mount your scope and set your reticle using the plumb line. Scope caps are sometimes level, and sometimes not. Often it isn't your reticle, but your caps. Level is very important at long range. As you turn your elevation your also turning left or right if not perfectly level.

 

[Bed Wetter]

I find the same thing. It can even happen in the more expensive scopes. I use a bubble level on the scope bases, then hang a line on a string in the other room 30 ft away. Mount your scope and set your reticle using the plumb line. Scope caps are sometimes level, and sometimes not. Often it isn't your reticle, but your caps. Level is very important at long range. As you turn your elevation your also turning left or right if not perfectly level.

And maybe that's all it is: turrets that aren't level. Maybe as long as the level mounted to the housing tube is level with the crosshair it doesn't matter if your scope cap or turret is off? It's really just this one scope that's off enough to say "it's not just me." Just had a chance to mount and test another Leupold and it's dead on like my NF.

(Yes, I have a job. Under the weather today and getting stir-crazy stuck in the house.)

 

[SDMF]

Brain chaffing via mental masturbation.

 

[svnmag]

I've always just thought it was me and clothing and adjusted the gun pitch. One incident of scope slippage. Do the best I can with the above techs and a drop of blue Lokt-Tight. I'm a "point blank range" tool. (Mr. Tool)

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Well, I'm going to ask now: I know you look at a scope not "through" it; should the reticle be sharp like a pistol front sight or do you "precise" guys shoot at a clear target and "fuzzed" crosshair? I've been doing fuzzed my whole life.

 

[SDMF]

should the reticle be sharp like a pistol front sight or do you "precise" guys shoot at a clear target and "fuzzed" crosshair? I've been doing fuzzed my whole life.

Everything should be sharp, focus your ocular ring.

BW, here's your tool (the Scope-Tru, not the bar):

http://parabola-llc.com

 

[svnmag]

I've done that Hors with improvement but have been ascairtd of scope cut.

You likely diagnosed my dilemma with proper mounting like with a small farm pig. I now consider this a "three" step procedure instead of "two". Shi'ite, I don't want to break off this damn scope. Maybe this spring...

For those curious: I have a LimbSaver slip-on for the bench and rely on clothing to substitute length of pull in November. The LS doesn't prevent muzzle jump but reduces felt recoil to .243/.223 level from a 7mag in "T-shirt" weather. It's a reliable prophylactic.

 

[Kurtr]

Muzzle jump is controlled by driving the rifle right. Should be no fuzz through the scope if there is something is wrong.

I thought I had a canted reticle turret was the culprit.

 

[svnmag]

If you can stop "Ol Gal" from jumping off the bags and get a tight group you are a Man.

 

[Bed Wetter]

If you can stop "Ol Gal" from jumping off the bags and get a tight group you are a Man.

I suck at this so I recently picked up a heavier rifle until I learn to shoot like an adult.

 

[Kurtr]

Frank has a lot of good videos. It is a great feeling when you shoot watch impact and never loose site picture. He has a vid of shooting a short bbl .338 Lapua just to prove his point .

 

[SDMF]

Not kidding about his:

http://parabola-llc.com

 

[svnmag]

I suck at this so I recently picked up a heavier rifle until I learn to shoot like an adult.

I found not flinching from recoil and a good follow-through improved groups.

 

[PrairieGhost]

Not kidding about his:

http://parabola-llc.com

I see a big flaw in that thing, but don't know if I can explain it. First you have to determine you have a level rifle. That doesn't do it. My big question is how do you know the devise is level. Your rifle could be canted, and your reticle still aligned to fit in that window on the devise.
This has got me thinking though. The reticle must be perfectly aligned at 90 degrees to center of bore. I wonder if a person could use bright thin thread suspended with a weight to act like a plumb line. Then center the plumb line on your bore, and align your reticle to the plumb line. On a bolt action you could pull the bolt and sight through the bore on a plumb line some distance away then center your reticle by turning your scope to align, and adjusting the turret to bring it to center. You would then be level and bore sighted to the vertical plane.

 

[SDMF]

I see a big flaw in that thing, but don't know if I can explain it. First you have to determine you have a level rifle. That doesn't do it. My big question is how do you know the devise is level. Your rifle could be canted, and your reticle still aligned to fit in that window on the devise.
This has got me thinking though. The reticle must be perfectly aligned at 90 degrees to center of bore. I wonder if a person could use bright thin thread suspended with a weight to act like a plumb line. Then center the plumb line on your bore, and align your reticle to the plumb line. On a bolt action you could pull the bolt and sight through the bore on a plumb line some distance away then center your reticle by turning your scope to align, and adjusting the turret to bring it to center. You would then be level and bore sighted to the vertical plane.

I said the same thing, 'til I used one. They work sans plumb line or any other doodads. I made all the "Rubber band?, you gotta be shittin' me. How do you know the rifle's level?" and any other mechanical argument one can make, then I used one, they just work.

 

[huntorride365]

Rule #1: never use the siding of a house or any other houseworthy ficture to determine 90 degrees. Just like the rest of us, professionals just go with what looks good and whatever works with the current predicament. ie. not a chance in hell that shit's level.

 

[PrairieGhost]

SDMF I would like to see one in use. If they work I would buy one in a heartbeat. You have me convinced to find one of these and have a look.

My brother bought this. It looks good, but don't do the job good enough for me. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004TAB7ZO/?tag=nodakangler10-20 Your still leveling off your turret or cap.

I have suckered for a few. I'll find my phone and paste a pic of my last failure.
This one is a big failure because some scopes the horizontal and the vertical are not in perfect 90 degree orientation. People notice when the horizontal is out of line, but it's the vertical that is important for long range shooting. This one would not even level the horizontal. Piece of $15 junk.

 

[SupressYourself]

I really like the idea of aligning the vertical reticle line with a plumb bob. That had not occurred to me.
In the past, I've put a 4 ft level on a bucket out in the yard, shimmed it to be perfectly level, and then aligned my horizontal reticle on it.
I agree with others here that trusting that your scope cap or turret is level / aligned perfectly with your reticle is a big mistake.

 

[Wildyote]

I use a scope leveling kit to get my scopes close but I just as well use my eye to adjust my personal level. Everyone holds a gun different thus has a different cant. I don't have a permanent level bubble on any of my scopes because I don't feel the need to look back and forth at my crosshairs and bubbles. There are certain stocks that correct canting the gun and others that make it more difficult. I prefer to level a vertical/horizontal x target at 200 yds and go from there.

 

[svnmag]

I found not flinching from recoil and a good follow-through improved groups.

I tried different pressures and holds and found "springer air rifle guidance" was my huckleberry even after the mods. (float, bed. trigger)

FWIW, for scope mounting, my first step is sticking a sheet of paper on the wall about 15yds away and using a level to draw a vertical line.