Culture of Mediocrity



Lapper

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I don't disagree with the article but you can't force someone to be passionate about something and passion is what it takes to put forth the extra effort. It would be interesting to see some other stats from these schools like college grad rates of kids for the same time frame he is talking about. Maybe his school is more focused on academics than sports. If his school is so much smaller like he infers they are naturally going to be worse at sports just by having less of a student body to pull from.

That being said, the culture of mediocrity is definitely a real thing that extends way beyond sports.
 

Traxion

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I agree with his article as a whole. The world we live in demands that a student participating in athletics makes a serious commitment to the sport. Not a lot of kids are 3 sport athletes anymore because they simply can't be competitive at all of them. To be really good, you have to choose. This is unfortunate in a lot of ways. Having to select one sport to be good at hurts the other programs. And, when kids start playing seriously at a very young age, burn out happens in many cases. It used to be you played multiple sports, played a little in the summer, and could still have fun and be competitive. Now, you play one sport year round to be competitive. Otherwise, you get your lunch handed to you by the kids who play ball 12 months a year. Granted there are exceptions to this, but generally the bigger the community you are in or compete with, this is the case. I think athletics teach kids many good lessons but struggle with the level of commitment a kid has to show these days. Not sure where the line is.....
 

westwolfone

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I can say from both my own experience, as well as my kids, good coaches make good athletic teams and shitty coaches make shitty athletic teams.

This guy needs to take some responsibility.
 

Traxion

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I can say from both my own experience, as well as my kids, good coaches make good athletic teams and shitty coaches make shitty athletic teams.

This guy needs to take some responsibility.

Yes, but as a great basketball coach once said- If you want to make chickens, it's a lot easier to make them from eggs rather than chicken crap.

A good coach can take average kids and make them great. And a bad coach can do little with good kids. But neither can do anything with bad ones.
 


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I disagree. A great coach can do wonders with shitty kids. Coaching is way underrated when it comes to athletic success. The culture of mediocrity and acceptance of the status quo is just as prevalent with coaches as it is with athletes. If a coach has kids who settle for mediocrity and a .500 record, then he needs to take a serious look in the mirror. He or she has way more influence than they are willing to admit.
 

westwolfone

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I stand by what I said.

The other thing is the coaches, especially in the lower grades, are the ones that created the so called
'culture of mediocrity" there. Then this guy blames the kids. Look in the mirror coach.
I'm guessing a lot of kids don't even go out for sports because of attitudes like this guys.
 

Traxion

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Let me get this straight- I don't expect the best coach in the world to take a group of kids who doesn't pick up a basketball during the summer to a .500 record. Now, I do expect great things from a great coach with a group of kids who played all summer long. It's really simple, you must have some talent to win.

But, you also have to develop that talent to win. I think that is what we agree on. You've got to build a program and encourage kids, and that starts at a young age. But I also think that many coaches ride the line between pushing their kids to be good (much beyond mediocrity) and killing their program. You have to be a really, really good motivator to get kids to put in the time needed to be successful in sports today. There are far too many other distractions in the world. Kids today aren't motivated the same way as we were and it is easy to make it "too hard" for them. The great coaches can figure this matrix out.

If the best coach in the nation rolls into a school where mediocrity is prevalent, it is going to take a few years to be successful. Like you say, it starts at a young level. And one person can influence but can't control that. It's culture, plain and simple. Unfortunately the expectation placed on that superstar coach would probably be unrealistic and he would be fired or chased off in two years. And the cycle continues......
 

Allen

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I understand what the coach/author is getting at, those who put in above average amounts of time training and practicing end up being more successful at that sport. Makes sense.

However, we are talking youth athletics here. I am not trying to raise a football, basketball, soccer, or chess player. I am trying to raise a well rounded good person, not an athlete that I need to relive my own past through. When I lived in Grand Forks I saw people pushing their kids to excel at hockey so they could get a scholarship to UND and eventually end up in the NHL. Fugging seriously? The rest of the population had a name for such rabid parents, we called them "puck" heads.

I find most ultra successful athletes to be one dimensional in their personality. No, I'm not necessarily talking about someone who simply wins a ND state championship in whatever sport, while that may indeed be you, accomplishments themselves are not required to be a puck head.
 

Kurtr

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After growing up in a bigger city now living in a small one the difference is huge. If kids are pushed here they will quit I had 20 waiting in line to take my place. I have played for some great coaches and it seems they all preached success be it in sports or in life comes from the extra effort put forth. Parents complain when there kid does not win but when he/she puts more time in on the electronics than the court or where ever the results are what should be expected.
 


westwolfone

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After growing up in a bigger city now living in a small one the difference is huge. If kids are pushed here they will quit I had 20 waiting in line to take my place. I have played for some great coaches and it seems they all preached success be it in sports or in life comes from the extra effort put forth. Parents complain when there kid does not win but when he/she puts more time in on the electronics than the court or where ever the results are what should be expected.

This thread actually brings back good memories for me.

I went to school at what at the time was the biggest high school in Montana (Butte) and the competition was fierce.

We also had great football & wrestling coaches. I'm convinced the coaches made us all better. I think we won 14 or 15 state wrestling championships in a row (1980-1994?) as well as a few football titles.

I remember they always talked about us wrestling Bismarck back then, as they were the dominant team here.
 

DirtyMike

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There's plenty of kids that will make a coach look like he/she knows what they're doing. I grew up with Harold Fass as a coach. The man had two tours in vietnam with him being the only one of his platoon to make it out the second time. He ran football and wrestling like it was a continuous boot camp and the kids were tough as nails. He stepped down prior to me getting into high school. We ran through a couple different football coaches after that and the team is past laughable now days. It's sad to see them play. Wrestling has been dropped at the school and most sports co-op with surrounding towns.

A good coach can only do so much. Kids are different these days. You find your show horses every once in a while but not often. In the end, I think a good coach has to be able to understand that there are different opinions/methods on training and success. A coach has to be a good student of the game and learn from other successful coaches. This also is where kids will flourish. Things didn't click for me until I attended some really good wrestling camps and was able to train under some future and current ND Hall of Fame coaches.

It all boils down to the kids dedication and the coaches ability. There's no one answer.

I have to say, it's tough to watch some wrestling now days. I wonder if coaches see me shake my head in disgust. Rowdie?
 
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luvcatchingbass

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In middle and high school I had the opportunity to play for a variety of coaches in a small town. I did not have the right name, I did have to work, I had farm duties that needed to be filled, we didn't have much money and my parents still gave me opportunities. I played a little baseball, some football, basketball, wrestling and golf and in the end my last two years (only wrestled junior senior) getting my butt kicked on the mat was the only time that I felt the word team and drive to succeed at life was upheld by a coach and actually showed in our team unlike the other sports and that is because of the coach. Coaching makes a Huge difference but the individuals also need to put the work in and show a little dedication.
Example: I never touched a wrestling mat until my Junior year in High School so needless to say I had some learning to do. I wrestled a few varsity matches and my Senior year held a full Varsity spot due to less competition, that was not good enough for me. I can honestly say that in my many many many loses only twice did I ever feel that I was out muscled and that was from doing the added conditioning and lifting to go with dealing with cattle and splitting wood at home, but I was really out technique most times from guys that had been wrestling for 8-12 years. It would have been easy for me to just settle but it was my friends and teammates that truly drove me to push harder with the coach backing that up (great coach that I still respect) so I would say it was us kids as a culture along with the coach fueling that culture. I say there are many facets that make up an average, good, great coach but there still needs to be a certain amount of commitment from athletes or maybe the current athletes just don't jive with the coaching at that point. It is easy to quickly judge this guy for what he is saying or judge the kids he speaks of but unless someone "un-biased" has first hand look at this situation how can anyone blame coaches or kids?
 

gst

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This article hits home a bit. I am still sitting on a letter written to our school board, athletic director and superintendent after our last football season debating whether to submit it or not. As a Dad of three boys two of whom have graduated and one now a senior that were involved in our small communities athletic programs (cooped schools to get enough kids) I have never contacted a coach or school board member about my sons involvement in athletics concerning playing issues outside of letting each coach know if there was a problem with discipline, attitude, effort or any thing else they could contact me and we would deal with those issues as needed. My kids knew that if they wasted their coaches time, their team mates time and their time they would not be allowed to play.

As is normal with the differences in personalities of each son, there were differences in levels of committment to sports. It varied from a passion and hard work to natural talent and physical stature combined with hard work to playing because it was fun and their buddies were out. As a parent I allowed each kid to determine the degree of commitment they were going to put into each sport they chose to play and gave them every opportunity to attend summer lifting programs three days a week, open gyms in the off season, individual camps, team camps, videos of techniques ect.... if the kids showed a desire.

Two of my sons made that kind of commitment to certain sports. They worked hard and put in the extra effort. One it was to become a good athlete with a great attitude that coaches and team mates loved coaching and playing with that was in the middle of things, the other it was to become a stand out athlete because of the bonus of some physical pluses (size and strength) and a stubborn drive that coaches love coaching and his team mates have fun playing with.

As a parent I take a great deal of enjoyment from watching my three sons levels of enjoyment they have taken from sports. I have supported their levels of commitment and the expectations of their coaches to put the extra effort in that is in reality required if there is an expectation of playing time at the varsity level.

This support we as parents have chosen to make to our schools athletics programs is a significant one both in time and monies. Living 20 miles from the town the kids play and practice in, by the time we have 4 kids (one young daughter coming up) thru the athletics programs our one family will have invested well over $60,000 in supporting the athletic programs in our schools. So as some one that does not like pissing monies away, I appreciate it when the extra effort is put forth by athletes and teams to rise above this culture of "mediocrity" that I believe does exist as the author writes.

But as I read the article written by a coach that pushes for the extra time in the gym, the extra commitment by individual athletes, (all at the expense and commitments of parents as well) I missed where he said he expected the same level of commitment from his fellow coaches and athletic directors and school boards and sports boosters (funding) .

All the focas is placed on varsity level sports, yet it is the first coaches these athletes come across that instill the values of hard work, teach the fundamentals that always will remain the core to successful players and team programs. Yet how many school boards or athletic programs require these important coaches to attend clinics on how to develop beginning players? How many require young coaches that may not have the benefit of years of experience to attend coaching clinic for the varsity level sports to better themselves as coaches just as they expect athletes to better themselves as players by making these commitments and attending opportunities to learn?

A few years back, after our school hired a young coaching staff inour football progra, knowing there was the athletic abilities and talent in our football program to be successful, a few parents made the extra commitment to pony up some extra dollars to send coaches to a top coaching clinic. Every thing was paid for including spending monies. There were no time conflicts and yet these young coaches declined the opportunity.

We have watched as players attending clinics and weight lifting have became better players over the last 4 years yet we watch as the same coaching decisions have not improved in the same manner and promising seasons have ended before they maybe should have.

We have good young coaches that if they take advantage of the same opportunities they expect their players to in bettering and learning, have the potential to be that coach that at some point celebrates their milestone win mark. These coaches put in time to share their experiences as players and teach my kids and for that I am very grateful. But there are things that go beyond the teaching mechanics of a defense or the diagram of a play to create good players and teams. Things that go beyond commitments to lifting and running that go into making a great player.

And that is the development of players as persons and the ability to individually identify and build on the inner strengths of a kid. Great coaches know how to do that. Great coaches with consistent winning programs can take an average kid and develop something inside them that drives that extra effort and heart that sometimes wins over simple talent. These coaches learn how to pull more than just athletic ability out of their players.

There are examples we all know of those coaches over the years. Many times they are willing to teach these intangibles to other coaches in clinics becasue they know the importance of this part of sports and have a passion to share. Just as coaches expect players to put more time and commitment into their sport than what happens at practice and games to become better players , it is my opinion that the players and parents can also expect those coaches to take advantage of the opportunities to become better coaches as well. Even if one is recognized as Region Coach of the Year, even if a player is recognized as first team All State as a junior, there are things they can learn and improve at if they wish to.

I missed that part of looking in the mirror in the coaches letter at the beginning of this thread.
 


Bullsnake

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loved this read, and as a coach I see this all the time. kids don't care cause they know they are going to play regardless, and if you remove them the team they could care less. and when you try to change the culture for your sport another sport and coach completely unravels it, frustrating as hell. I've had the privilege to play in both big and small town sports and at the college level and know what it takes and how it feels to have someone on your heels to take your spot
 

Retired Educator

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I agree with his article as a whole. The world we live in demands that a student participating in athletics makes a serious commitment to the sport. Not a lot of kids are 3 sport athletes anymore because they simply can't be competitive at all of them. To be really good, you have to choose. This is unfortunate in a lot of ways. Having to select one sport to be good at hurts the other programs. And, when kids start playing seriously at a very young age, burn out happens in many cases. It used to be you played multiple sports, played a little in the summer, and could still have fun and be competitive. Now, you play one sport year round to be competitive. Otherwise, you get your lunch handed to you by the kids who play ball 12 months a year. Granted there are exceptions to this, but generally the bigger the community you are in or compete with, this is the case. I think athletics teach kids many good lessons but struggle with the level of commitment a kid has to show these days. Not sure where the line is.....

I respectively disagree with the idea of young people specializing in one sport. Having been involved in coaching for many years I never found that to be a benefit. At the end of the year, it's not unusual to see many athletes being All-State in more than one sport. Good athletes are good athletes. Even in the larger Class A schools you will find athletes participating in more than one sport. The current most famous from ND, Carson Wentz.

You sill find many pro athletes that participated in more than one sport during their HS years. I also found that many college coaches liked athletes at the HS level participating in more than one sport. It often showed ambition and competitiveness. You can also tell a lot about an athletes ability in FB by watching them run and jump on the BB court. I never thought it took all that much extra time in the off-season. You don't always have to have a bunch of people around to practice or set aside an hour or two per day. You will surprised at how much improvement a BB player would see if they just went to their driveway and shot baskets for 15-30 minutes per day. Doing anything is better than playing video games or watching TV. It doesn't take much, just do something.

Do coaches have favorites? I did. My favorites were the players who worked the hardest. It's real difficult to find a coach who doesn't try and put the best players on the field or court. Much easier for a coach to win with the best players participating. Does a name help? Usually. Go to any small town and you will find some families whose names keep popping up in the sports pages. That's usually due to the culture of the family they were raised in.

Not every kid is interested in athletics. That's fine. But as it is with any endeavor, the more you put into it, most likely the more you will reap. No different for music or drama. Those are other activities where practice and time outside the classroom is expected. I'm sure no great musician became good by playing their instrument only during the class time in the 9 months that school was in session.

I was raised on a farm and worked on that farm. My parents never pushed me in athletics, but they always made sure I was allowed to have the time to participate, and I was a 4-sport athlete. FB, BB, Track, and BasB in the summer. Never remember them being the rah-rah type. They just came to every game, watched and we went home with the usual "Nice game." Never complained about the coach, never coached me, never explained what I was doing wrong. Just fans who enjoyed sports and watching their son play. Also had several cousins in the same boat. I was lucky.
 

CatDaddy

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Whoops.....by the title of the thread I thought this was about the MN Vikings. Carry on.
 

Rowdie

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There's plenty of kids that will make a coach look like he/she knows what they're doing. I grew up with Harold Fass as a coach. The man had two tours in vietnam with him being the only one of his platoon to make it out the second time. He ran football and wrestling like it was a continuous boot camp and the kids were tough as nails. He stepped down prior to me getting into high school. We ran through a couple different football coaches after that and the team is past laughable now days. It's sad to see them play. Wrestling has been dropped at the school and most sports co-op with surrounding towns.

A good coach can only do so much. Kids are different these days. You find your show horses every once in a while but not often. In the end, I think a good coach has to be able to understand that there are different opinions/methods on training and success. A coach has to be a good student of the game and learn from other successful coaches. This also is where kids will flourish. Things didn't click for me until I attended some really good wrestling camps and was able to train under some future and current ND Hall of Fame coaches.

It all boils down to the kids dedication and the coaches ability. There's no one answer.

I have to say, it's tough to watch some wrestling now days. I wonder if coaches see me shake my head in disgust. Rowdie?

The thing is with wrestling there are such low numbers throughout the state that the JV and Jr High are filling varsity positions. Since teams can bring their extra guys, the level of competition in 'varsity' tournaments just isn't what we grew up watching. However, the studs in our state are the real deal, and they stand out even more with a backdrop of JV n Jr High kids.
 

eyexer

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In smaller schools, the kids that work hard at the sport(s) in the off season are very easy to point out. In big city schools it's not easy. My brother coaches high school girls BB in the Twin Cities. He also coaches AAU ball in the summer. The commitment those girls show in the summer is insane. He had one girl two years ago that drove two hours one way from up north just to play for him. She could have stayed home and played but the competition is so much better in the Twin Cites she was willing to drive two hours one way to do it. Things have really changed in regard to high school sports in the past forty years. Some for the better some not so much.
 


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