Deer Baiting Ban

[guywhofishes]

I haven’t been able to see videos from my iphone lately.
Anyone else?

 

[eyexer]

GF don’t like baiting from what I understand. As I stated on the other post they will use this to stop it. They wanted to implement a one tag rule and got nuked by the bow hunting lobby. So this will be their way to thwart that. It will also speed up the herd recovery.

 

[guywhofishes]

CWD is pretty badass... it targets a certain size and sex according to NDGF officials. That’s scary stuff right there.

It’s the equivalent to the heart attack in peoples of Chicago. I say we change the name to Ditka Disease so people get a better feel for the likely victims.

 

[Redneck1]

"On refuges you can't bail anyway" NO but you can bait all you want directly next to the refuge fence line to train the deer to come to the "private" land bait pile.
Also there is alot of Private land that is posted off limits to hunting so the herd numbers and size of deer is increasing on private land. What happens to the deer herd if it's allowed to increase too much on posted private land? Eventually the deer should die of disease if the landowner isn't permitting any game management on his property.

 

[Tymurrey]

I don't quite understand the people that complain about the neighbors to them baiting. If they are pulling deer to their land from yours, hunt the travel corridor and let them pay to bring the deer to you. I've had guys hang stands just up the travel route from where I was baiting, about 20 yards from the fence line. Nothing I could about it except focus on what it takes to keep the deer on my property so they don't have to travel from theirs. After seeing the draw of a couple acre food plot and knowing its only going to get better since this was the first year, i'm not worried about buckets of corn anymore. If food plots become illegal, I guess i'll just have to start farming the full 20 acres and not get my crop off in time before winter hits. Maybe plant an area to fall graze with a couple of feeder calves that never make it into the field. This CWD/baiting thing is just plain silly, I wonder how many deer have cwd and no one even knows. Just chalk up the dead to winter kill or coyotes. We have deer every year that make it through season but never show up again the next fall.

 

[Enslow]

The NDGF is so unorganized and so political that they are enveloped in a Cloak of group think.

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GF don’t like baiting from what I understand. As I stated on the other post they will use this to stop it. They wanted to implement a one tag rule and got nuked by the bow hunting lobby. So this will be their way to thwart that. It will also speed up the herd recovery.

Herd recovery? The herd has recovered and is about as good as it’s going to get. Did you get your rifle tag yet or are you still blaming the NDGF employees for taking your tags?

 

[KDM]

There are dozens of peer reviewed research projects that have looked at the effects of concentrating wildlife with bait or supplemental feeding. Here's a very brief summary from a paper out of the Dept. of Animal and Poultry Science & Indigenous Land Management, University of Saskatchewan.

Providing food to wildlife through supplemental feeding or baiting has great potential to negatively impact species health and represents a non-natural arena for disease transmission and preservation. Ultimately, this undermines the initial purpose of feeding practices and represents a serious risk to the maintenance of biodiversity, ecosystem functioning, human health, and livestock production.

If you'd like to see their synthesis of data:

Sorenson, A., F.M. van Beest, and R.K. Brook. 2013. Impacts of wildlife baiting and supplemental feeding on infectious disease transmission risk: A synthesis of knowledge. Preventive Veterinary Medicine

And before anyone jumps down my throat about this, please remember I did not state my opinion on the matter. I just showed that there is scientific research on the subject.

I'm glad you jumped in Fly Carpin as Montana is just getting into the CWD mess. Here's the actual abstract from the cited paper. Lots of "potential" "can result in" "can lead to" "likely increase" and other such language that speaks to possibilities with very little being known or discovered. It's all guesswork. What is blatantly missing from every paper I've read on CWD is the glaring absence of language such as "Will", "Does", "Has been shown to", Confidence intervals, Standard deviations, P values, and other definitive language typical of statistical analysis that comes from repeatable scientific experiments using objective data sets that other scientists can perform and get the same or similar results. If you take the time to read several papers on CWD, meaning what it is, how it's spread, how to control it, and the like, you will see much of the same language of guesswork. Even the CDC doesn't know much about the prion that causes CWD as they use "Likely" when describing suspected methods of transmission. With so much unknown about CWD, how can a mitigation strategy even be considered, let alone implemented? I highlighted what I feel is the most important sentence in the abstract where the author openly agrees with my position.

[h=2]Abstract[/h]Baiting and supplemental feeding of wildlife are widespread, yet highly controversial management practices, with important implications for ecosystems, livestock production, and potentially human health. An often underappreciated threat of such feeding practices is the potential to facilitate intra- and inter-specific disease transmission. We provide a comprehensive review of the scientific evidence of baiting and supplemental feeding on disease transmission risk in wildlife, with an emphasis on large herbivores in North America. While the objectives of supplemental feeding and baiting typically differ, the effects on disease transmission of these practices are largely the same. Both feeding and baiting provide wildlife with natural or non-natural food at specific locations in the environment, which can result in large congregations of individuals and species in a small area and increased local densities. Feeding can lead to increased potential for disease transmission either directly (via direct animal contact) or indirectly (via feed functioning as a fomite, spreading disease into the adjacent environment and to other animals). We identified numerous diseases that currently pose a significant concern to the health of individuals and species of large wild mammals across North America, the spread of which are either clearly facilitated or most likely facilitated by the application of supplemental feeding or baiting. Wildlife diseases also have important threats to human and livestock health. Although the risk of intra- and inter-species disease transmission likely increases when animals concentrate at feeding stations, only in a few cases was disease prevalence and transmission measured and compared between populations. Mostly these were experimental situations under controlled conditions, limiting direct scientific evidence that feeding practices exacerbates disease occurrence, exposure, transmission, and spread in the environment. Vaccination programs utilizing baits have received variable levels of success. Although important gaps in the scientific literature exist, current information is sufficient to conclude that providing food to wildlife through supplemental feeding or baiting has great potential to negatively impact species health and represents a non-natural arena for disease transmission and preservation. Ultimately, this undermines the initial purpose of feeding practices and represents a serious risk to the maintenance of biodiversity, ecosystem functioning, human health, and livestock production. Managers should consider disease transmission as a real and serious concern in their decision to implement or eliminate feeding programs. Disease surveillance should be a crucial element within the long-term monitoring of any feeding program in combination with other available preventive measures to limit disease transmission and spread.

 

[Fly Carpin]

You're right, the data don't give us a clear cut answer as to what is happening and how. Is banning all potential for concentrated supplemental feeding a knee-jerk reaction? Damn straight it is. You'll get no argument from me about that. I also don't know the right answer. Start soil remediation for all positive testing areas? Probably not. But we do know that the prions that cause scrapie and CWD can persist in the soil for years. And that the prions can be taken up by plants and enter the system through digestion. We also know CWD has a long incubation period. Most deer are dead before the effects of CWD hit them. There is a ton of misinformation out there, put forth by both the pro-captive deer crowd trying to minimize the issue, and also the chicken littles of the world saying this is the end of all cervids in North America. The answer is somewhere between as always. I'll keep looking for peer reviewed research with some actual statistical analyses.

 

[KDM]

Thanks Fly Carpin!! If you find something, PLEASE let me know.

 

[eyexer]

The NDGF is so unorganized and so political that they are enveloped in a Cloak of group think.

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Herd recovery? The herd has recovered and is about as good as it’s going to get. Did you get your rifle tag yet or are you still blaming the NDGF employees for taking your tags?

I don't deer hunt anymore so I have no dog in the fight either way. Again I'm not stating my opinion just stating the way I think the G&F will look at it.

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CWD is pretty badass... it targets a certain size and sex according to NDGF officials. That’s scary stuff right there.

It’s the equivalent to the heart attack in peoples of Chicago. I say we change the name to Ditka Disease so people get a better feel for the likely victims.

I'm like CWD I target a certain size and sex too

 

[Wags2.0]

I don't deer hunt anymore so I have no dog in the fight either way. Again I'm not stating my opinion just stating the way I think the G&F will look at it.

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I'm like CWD I target a certain size and sex too

So you just gave up after 9 years with 12 points ? Or was it 12 years with 9 points?...

 

[Fritz the Cat]

You're right, the data don't give us a clear cut answer as to what is happening and how. Is banning all potential for concentrated supplemental feeding a knee-jerk reaction? Damn straight it is. You'll get no argument from me about that. I also don't know the right answer. Start soil remediation for all positive testing areas? Probably not. But we do know that the prions that cause scrapie and CWD can persist in the soil for years. And that the prions can be taken up by plants and enter the system through digestion. We also know CWD has a long incubation period. Most deer are dead before the effects of CWD hit them. There is a ton of misinformation out there, put forth by both the pro-captive deer crowd trying to minimize the issue, and also the chicken littles of the world saying this is the end of all cervids in North America. The answer is somewhere between as always. I'll keep looking for peer reviewed research with some actual statistical analyses.

Pure fiction. The farmed cervid industry does not post misinformation nor spread disinformation.

Peer reviewed research...…….before a researchers thoughts or hypothesis can be printed in a Journal, others in the field must referee his/her material. That pretty much sums up what goes on here everyday.

 

[eyexer]

So you just gave up after 9 years with 12 points ? Or was it 12 years with 9 points?...

I last hunted in around 2011 I think. quit applying in like 2013. So haven't applied in five years or so. And what's weird is I really don't have a desire to hunt deer. Only reason I ever did was for the meat for sausage. But I have buddies that get more meat than they need so I will usually get some from them and have sausage made or make my own depending on how much time I have for sausage making then. It's just not something that is a desire to me anymore because you cannot make this an annual thing due to the lottery so it's not ever going to be like a ritual with my boys or anything. Not like pheasant opener or fishing opener in MN or something. It just is what it is.

 

[Lungdeflator]

Little is known about the affects of Meth on deer. Last study done was around 800 AD, in Argentina. The result is what we now call an "Alpaca".

Also, my wife and I do not bait, never have and never will. I would consider us pretty successful bowhunters. We would be in favor of a baiting ban, but for personal reasons. No science or facts involved.

If I ever change my last name it’s going to be van Beest. (researcher name in carps post)

that name kills

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also, do deer like meth? (asking for a friend)

 

[Fly Carpin]

Pure fiction. The farmed cervid industry does not post misinformation nor spread disinformation.

Peer reviewed research...…….before a researchers thoughts or hypothesis can be printed in a Journal, others in the field must referee his/her material. That pretty much sums up what goes on here everyday.

Funny, the post with the Nuge spewing absolute nonsense about injecting a deer with scrapie didn't set off your fakenewsometer, but my post did. Stand by for some examples.

In searching out the stance of the farmed cervid industry, I came across this gem on the American Cervid Alliance fact sheet on CWD. Oh lawd Terry, this some good sh*t right here.

 

[Meelosh]

Pure fiction. The farmed cervid industry does not post misinformation nor spread disinformation.

Peer reviewed research...…….before a researchers thoughts or hypothesis can be printed in a Journal, others in the field must referee his/her material. That pretty much sums up what goes on here everyday.

Found the anti-vax flat-earther.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Found the anti-vax flat-earther.

anti-vax, Meelosh is talking about persons who question vaccinations to infants. They claim giving a cocktail of vaccinations from diphtheria to polio all at the same time, is causing autism in children. Anti-vax is a term used to make fun of them.

Flat-earther is another term used to name call commonsense persons who question global warming.

 

[Kurtr]

anti-vax, Meelosh is talking about persons who question vaccinations to infants. They claim giving a cocktail of vaccinations from diphtheria to polio all at the same time, is causing autism in children. Anti-vax is a term used to make fun of them.

Flat-earther is another term used to name call commonsense persons who question global warming.

flat earther is a person who believes that earth is flat....

also you made a blanket statement that would mean there are no shit bags among the people who raise deer and such which is just not true. There is not one profession that shit bags are not found. So i can say with 100% confidence that some where some one has lied or put out false info that raises stuff.

the same people who are also anti vax believe that circumcision is child abuse and will ruin a boys life

 

[Meelosh]

anti-vax, meelosh is talking about persons who question vaccinations to infants. They claim giving a cocktail of vaccinations from diphtheria to polio all at the same time, is causing autism in children. Anti-vax is a term used to make fun of them.

Flat-earther is another term used to name call commonsense persons who question global warming.

ho. Lee. Shit.

 

[PrairieGhost]

There is not one profession that shit bags are not found.

Thats an absolute fact, but its not always politically correct to point it out. :;:cheers

Flat-earther is another term used to name call commonsense persons who question global warming.

Using global warming as an example doesnt automatically win the debate. i always thought it meant someone with primitive ideas. Sort of like the hillbillies in the movie Deliverance.