Deer Summary

[db-2]

game and fish needs all the help they can get from whoever if they would just listen to that help and use some common sense.
A little respect to the people would be nice along with some PR on their part.

 

[wjschmaltz]

I categorize this with my nonya file.

It is indeed everyone's business. Wildlife is owned by the state and held in trust for the residents (not individuals) of the state; and it's directed by statute to be managed collectively for those residents. The owners of that wildlife have the right to know and demand this information.

An individual has every right to buy land and develop it in a way to create their own controlled hunting paradise where they own domesticated "wildlife" and don't have to report or listen to state managers if they so wish.

When you have a hold on what percentage of tags are simply going unhunted, it often times presents room for more tags to be issued.

 

[KDM]

It is indeed everyone's business. Wildlife is owned by the state and held in trust for the residents (not individuals) of the state; and it's directed by statute to be managed collectively for those residents. The owners of that wildlife have the right to know and demand this information.

An individual has every right to buy land and develop it in a way to create their own controlled hunting paradise where they own domesticated "wildlife" and don't have to report or listen to state managers if they so wish.

When you have a hold on what percentage of tags are simply going unhunted, it often times presents room for more tags to be issued.

Nice idea, but you're assuming everyone will tell the truth. Everyone has an agenda. Trophy hunters want age so they prefer to say LOTS, ie TO MANY of deer were taken, lower the numbers to increase the population. Meaning more deer will get older. Meat hunters want LOTS of deer to maximize opportunity to fill the freezer, so they will want to say NOT ENOUGH deer were taken so they should increase the number of tags. Surveys are HORRIBLE for accuracy. I've said this many times. Surveys are SUBJECTIVE data where as actual counts are OBJECTIVE data. I'd rather they use the money they spend on surveys to fly more transects and get actual counts. However, what do I know about it. Carry On!!

 

[Dirty]

Subjective and Objective data work hand in hand. Each is limited on their own, one certainly cannot replace the other, and there are limitations even with both together. I would not be in favor of replacing population surveys with harvest surveys but I am all in favor of using both congruently. To suggest that harvest surveys couldn’t provide an added benefit to population management??? If you have a tool box full of tools, why use just one?

My entire academic and professional career has centered around clinical research and that did include subjective data that was extremely valuable, even though you have to account for the fact that it is indeed subjective and dishonesty or simply misinterpreting what is asked in surveys is a factor. This doesn’t make me an expert on anything any more than anyone else, but surveys for game management are far from a waste of time and money, and most harvest surveys I have completed while subjective are very straightforward: Did you hunt? Did you kill? If so, what, when, and where? I could lie through my teeth the whole way through but because I like to hunt, I don’t. I would say most people still fit that bill…of course that is subjective.

 

[Ruttin]

I would like to know what areas of the state the NDG&F flew this winter surveying the deer population. There were portions mainly in the east that would have benefited from a flyover survey. Currently while out turkey hunting I have not seen the whitetail population so high for many years. Lots of fawns appeared to have survived just fine to!

 

[KDM]

Subjective and Objective data work hand in hand. Each is limited on their own, one certainly cannot replace the other, and there are limitations even with both together. I would not be in favor of replacing population surveys with harvest surveys but I am all in favor of using both congruently. To suggest that harvest surveys couldn’t provide an added benefit to population management??? If you have a tool box full of tools, why use just one?

My entire academic and professional career has centered around research and subjective data has been extremely valuable, even though you have to account for the fact that it is indeed subjective and dishonesty or simply misinterpreting what is asked in surveys is a factor. This doesn’t make me an expert on anything any more than anyone else, but surveys are far from a waste of time and money, and most harvest surveys I have completed are not subjective. They are straightforward: Did you hunt? Did you kill? If so, what, when, and where? I could lie through my teeth the whole way through but because I like to hunt, I don’t. Most people still fit that bill…of course that is subjective.

My entire academic and professional career has also centered around the collection and analysis of research data. We will have to agree to disagree on the value of subjective data. Subjective data introduces untold variability which can not be quantified resulting in "Messy Data". Can surveys provide some additional information, sure. Would I rely on them for any substantial contributions to a paper I would submit for peer review and put my name on...NOPE!

 

[Dirty]

We can agree to disagree for sure on whether or not subjective reporting would be beneficial as one tool for game management.
As for the submission of a peer reviewed research paper…we agree.

 

[db-2]

Well i do fill them out and do tell the truth and see no reason why i would lie. They are to be a tool however as you may have notice i have little faith in game and fish. db

 

[deleted member]

As long as the nature of the survey is disclosed in the paper and said nature is discussed, I would have no issue with that data going in a paper.

 

[CatDaddy]

Wildlife is owned by the state and held in trust for the residents (not individuals) of the state

Where does this fit in the discussion?

Genesis 9:3 "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything."

 

[Dirty]

I am anti survey, I categorize this with my nonya file.

I may look like a complete ignoramus for this but you gotta educate me: What is a nonya file?

 

[risingsun]

^^ LMAO Nun ya bizness

 

[eyexer]

Looks like 15,000 or so either had multiple deer gun tags or they gave their tags back

 

[db-2]

I had four buck tags:

Mule deer did not put bullet in chamber
archery, put crossbow scope on deer twice but never pulled trigger
muzzle loader same as crossbow, twice

vehicle tag
did fill this one with my dodge, a 2x2 that i mounted on wall, did not receive a survey for that. db

 

[wjschmaltz]

Where does this fit in the discussion?

Genesis 9:3 "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything."

I mean I guess. So do you carry your bible in the field in lieu of hunting and fishing licenses and tags? Let’s have this conversation in the realm of reality. I suppose all us Christians believe wildlife is a perfect gift from God. I think He would prefer it be managed appropriately instead of a free for all. We tried the free for all thing in this country a couple times and it doesn’t track well.

 

[guywhofishes]

I’m impressed by the civility on display here.

 

[KDM]

I’m impressed by the civility on display here.

:;:sorry

 

[guywhofishes]

Ba ha ha.

 

[NG3067]

The survey would be more useful up if it were broken out per unit. There were units that were nearly wiped out with disease, and 30 miles away there was a surplus of deer. I guess we’ll see how many tags are allotted in each unit, and not a reduction across the board. The unit I hunt 3F2 is a CWD unit, but in our area population wasn’t affected. We went 1/1 on youth, 2/3 on buck draws and 2/3 on extra doe tags. Could have filled them all if we wanted to.

 

[Bubba]

I gave my recommendation in writing for elk in the turtle mt. but they said no and will not even consider my numbers.
In time they will listen to me. db

DB-2
I'm guessing the game and fish aren't taking your concerns seriously because they have recent areal survey, collar data, and hunter data and you have emotionally driven circumstantial "evidence." If you want them to take you seriously you might want to change your approach. I suggest you get some real data. A munched food plot and a few elk tracks aren't going to prove that you have more than a few elk in the area. A picture of 300+ elk in a field would be a good starting point.