Federal Land Transfer

[gst]

It's about aholes giving our public land away to aholes.

I think it was guywhofishes that said "not another acre". I agree completely.

So then is it just a thread complaining once again or is it one to share ideas of how to fix a problem?

 

[Colt45]

Anyways, we the people just lost 47 square miles of land courtesy of our wonderful federal government. I did write all 3 of our reps a while back, never heard from Hoeven, but it was a waste of time. Obummer had his mind made up, our reps are absolutely helpless and irrelevant in representing us, and that land is gone forever. Guess we will have to see what the tribe is going to charge for access, probably need some sort of tribal stamp, or potentially no access at all. Time will tell. Gunna have to fork over some cash if you want on.
I preach to my kids to never trust or depend on the federal government or the state government as there is no such thing as common sense in government and the corruption is through the roof. The honest Joe worker gets screwed every single time but that's where we are as a country. And I also tell them to never get in a situation where you get sucked into our so called justice system, because it is anything but just.

 

[ndlongshot]

Anybody have a map of this land?

 

[Colt45]

Maps of land transfer..........

http://www.arcgis.com/home/webmap/v...cdfe&extent=-103.0964,47.3942,-101.41,48.0272

http://bismarcktribune.com/news/sta...cle_c2346b8b-5bae-545f-b657-40b0546b9287.html

 

[lunkerslayer]

I don't know why I do this to myself I must be gluttons for punishment, with that said I would like to bring you back in time when the federal government mismanaged indian trust land allowing non indians to buy up land that was never supposed to be transferred from indian allotments.

Eloise Cobell which was a banker for a blackfoot tribe out of montana investigated land that was sold off to private individual without the consent of the federal government 100 of millions of acres of land which showed that the land was never supposed to be sold. She estimated that the land was worth at the time 176,000,000,000 dollars which included land, mineral , and water rights. According to US law, Indian lands are technically not owned by tribes or individual Indians themselves but are held in trust by the US government

So now the Obama settles for a fraction of the original settlement of a number of 3.4 billion dollars (indian money in settlement) (176,000,000,000 dollars which 1.9 billion dollars was used to buy back fractionalized land of indian property which some was part of federal lands allotment. BUT the federal government has only given the indians 900 million of the 1.9 billion dollars of the proposed settlement so far.

http://nativeamericanhistory.about.com/od/Law/a/The-History-Behind-The-Cobell-Case.htm

 

[Fritz the Cat]

"The property is about 30,000 excess acres that was taken when Garrison Dam was built, and its return has been in the works for more than a decade."

I thought Tim Sanstrom's position is that there is no such thing as excess acres?

"U.S. Sen. John Hoeven says the Corps informed him Thursday that the transfer is complete, and the land will be held in trust for the tribe by the Interior Department."

John Hoeven is our elected federal guy. Doesn't look like the Corps involved him in the decision making. And the land will be held in Trust? What changed, unless this is a stepping stone in the process to give it to the tribe.

bucksnbears said,

]the way you stalk EVERY fucking post PG/PM makes makes you more like a 3rd grader.
get a life.

There are a handful of old timers who will defend every post PG/PM makes. PG is almost 70 years old and writes....

It's about aholes giving our public land away to aholes

It's about aholes (the Corps) giving our public land away to aholes (the Native Americans).

PG or Plainsman, you worked for the fed/gov. At the federal level there are rules processes or steps involved such as setting up public forums etc. to deal with events such as this. Without going into too much fed/gov speak, what have "you done" in the way of setting up these public forums etc.?

 

[Colt45]

Lunk, nothing will ever be settled until we become one nation instead of two. We the people will never satisfy the cash appetite the tribes demand. Just read Cobells words below............ it will never end, no matter how much cash is redistributed to the tribes, as it is a "entitlement"

In 2010 the government approved a $3.4 billion settlement for the trust case. Major portions of the settlement were to partially compensate individual account holders, and to buy back fractionated land interests, and restore land to reservations. It also provided for a $60 million dollar scholarship fund for Native Americans and Alaskan Natives, named the Cobell Education Scholarship Fund in her honor. The settlement is the largest ever in a class action against the federal government.

Buy-back of lands has continued, restoring acreage to the tribes. As of November 2016, $40 million had been contributed to the scholarship fund by the government, from its purchase of lands. It has paid $900 million to buy back the equivalent of 1.7 million acres in fractionated land interests, restoring the land base of reservations to tribal control.

In 2009 when settlement was reached with the government, Cobell said:
"Although we have reached a settlement totaling more than $3.4 billion, there is little doubt this is significantly less than the full accounting to which individual Indians are entitled. Yes, we could prolong our struggle and fight longer, and perhaps one day we would know, down to the penny, how much individual Indians are owed. Perhaps we could even litigate long enough to increase the settlement amount. But we are compelled to settle now by the sobering realization that our class grows smaller each year, each month and every day, as our elders die and are forever prevented from receiving their just compensation."

 

[lunkerslayer]

I agree colt45 we are the only nation on the planet that has sovereign land inside a countries borders. I agree that the money they received did not amount to a fraction of what was ENTITLED under the original settlement the problem is land was sold from underneath in shady back door deals of federal land that was never to be sold. These lands have been farmed or grazed on for multiple generation now so would you rather have them take this land from farmers who have been paying taxes for years or buying land that was originally federally controlled native american trust land?
Further more Colt45 it doesn't matter in the end the indians don't own any of their land.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Lunk, I read your article and found it very interesting:

http://nativeamericanhistory.about.com/od/Law/a/The-History-Behind-The-Cobell-Case.htm

I didn't know when the reservations were first set up, the land was held in Trust by the fed/gov. Basically, they lived in a commune. That changed in 1887 from the Dawes Act which broke up the communal thing and changed it to individual allotments. After 25 years a patent in fee simple would be issued. Each individual would own 160 or whatever to buy sell trade lease or work the land like any other citizen. With all the land in private ownership it could have completely led to the break up of the reservation. Not that that would have been a bad thing.

As we know, the reservation didn't break up. But the Dawes Act had causes and effects. Natives who were designated as receivers of those acres in 1887 sold some leased some out and intermarried. Those initial acres have been fractionalized many generations. Owners upon thousands of different owners. These fractionated allotments are usually vacant parcels of land that are still managed under resource leases by the US, and have been rendered useless for any other purposes because they can only be developed with the approval 51% of all other owners, an unlikely scenario.

 

[Colt45]

When you say the Indians don't own any of "their" land, what do you mean? Is it "their" land or not? I believe the tribes do "own" the reservations, and they have aquired more than 1.7 million additional acres since 2009. That is a huge chunk of land. You can argue that the tribes only "control" the reservation land and the feds "own" it, but that is splitting hairs. The reservations are a independent NATION, with their own laws and regulations. Its a whacked out situation and will be until we become one people and one nation.

 

[lunkerslayer]

Colt 45 the federal land is allotted to the natives to live on that is it they need to get permission from the federal government to do any development on the reservations.
It doesn't matter about hairs you're not getting the whole picture here and must face reality that indian land was bought by the federal government in a form of an easement which now instead of kicking non indian land owners off their land that was purchased illegally ,they bought back land that was originally theirs if a form of an easement.
Now let see what happens with this new land bought from the settlement maybe you all rich oil makers can buy yourself a little piece of property that was originally own by the federal government s that was off limits before.

 

[johnr]

john lennon is a tool

 

[Colt45]

Well now I am officially confused. The federal government bought land from the federal government? Must be lots of lawyers involved in this fiasco. I always thought there were indian wars back in the old days, and the Indians lost. That was way before my time though so I am probably wrong. Not sure why our federal government has to buy any land from itself...........

 

[lunkerslayer]

I hated it when my parents would tell me when i couldn't do something because I said so that's why Yeah I know hey life is full of mysteries Colt45 but in the end deal has been done the ink will be dry and life will move on. :;:howdy

 

[Colt45]

 

[johnr]

This land with camp grounds, and boat ramps should still be usable for the general public?
The lake itself is not indian land, as far as I am to understand.

This whole thing makes me want to punch that baby again.

 

[Colt45]

Pretty sure you need tribal stamp to launch at McKenzie Bay johnr, used to in the past at least. So who's land is it again?

 

[db-2]

For a long time I tuff it out with the old fishing buddy site. Then a short time ago joined (and that was not easy) here as all you guys left fishing buddies and no one would talk on that old site anymore. That site became dead but still have a membership there.
So I just get here and this topic sought of turns in to what the end of fishing buddies turn into except without the fine picture of ladies but then I have found a bunch of fine ladies on that one about coffee. Guess we carried on with our feelings from FB. But I will stay for the ride where ever it may go.
Obama's and other's desire to bring hate and divide is an easy one to accomplish. Not only between the race but between ourselves.
I think we all have the same common understanding and goals with the same end result. But a few like Obama are not happy unless they stick a wedge between us for what is good for all. And then they feel good about it without having any understanding of what they just did. They leave us to pick up the pieces which I feel we do and will do a good job of that and in the end we win. db

 

[lunkerslayer]

Pretty sure you need tribal stamp to launch at McKenzie Bay johnr, used to in the past at least. So who's land is it again?

you need a stamp to launch your boat on any state, federal, tribal, or private land. same goes with some Minnesota lakes accessing for lake during ice fishing andalso Lake region Anglers own a private boat launch on six mile bay camp ground, there are also 3 private boat launches on Devils Lake now.
So what is your point colt45

 

[eyexer]

every other day it seems the natives come out with another story on the government owing them money. and the government just gives em more. this land give away was going to be done by the corp, it didn't matter who in the hell was opposed to it. especially during an obama admin where they would just rubber stamp it. you notice it happened just prior to Trump taking office. no way in hell they were going to allow it to hang out there until after he takes office. Now, what's going to happen with that land and all the reservation land if the Trump administration decides to privatize the reservations? There is talk about that. A couple native american senators have brought that idea to Trump. It will supposedly speed up a bunch of different processes that take forever to get done. But there may be some serious consequences to it.