ND Game & Fish

[Flatrock]

Do you know do they continue to cube your points or is there a max number of times an application can be put in? Just curious especially for muzzleloader.

I assume they continue to cube your points until you draw. I've never seen anything that says otherwise.

 

[johnr]

I would rather put my penis on the table and let mrs johnr draw a smiley face on it, than try to satisfy a bunch of buck crazy nd hunters. haha

 

[guywhofishes]

I would rather put my penis on the table and let mrs johnr draw a smiley face on it, then try to satisfy a bunch of buck crazy nd hunters. haha

same here

 

[NDSportsman]

I totally disagree. More points=better draw odds. Just because somebody with 2 points draws and somebody with 6 points doesn't draw, that does NOT make it a broken system. Luck is part of it and we can't throw a tantrum when somebody with more points than us draws.

Would you rather have a straight preference point system where the people with the most points draw? Sure, that type of system is nice when you get to have lots of points because you know you'll draw for sure but then once you draw, you have 0% chance of drawing until you build up a lot of points again. I think the current system is really good and I like that they cube your bonus points once you get to 4 points. Gives everyone a small chance with 0-3 points and once you get to 4, your odds go way, way up.

The problem is I know way too many people who draw with 0-3 points while other people can't draw with 4-7 points. The odds should go up but they don't seem to is the point. I don't know maybe quadruple points or something but no one should be going more then 5 years without their first choice while others are drawing multiple tags during that time.

 

[Callem'In]

I am in the same mindset as you are, but to properly manage a heard, we must not remove the amount of does that we do in ND. I think that we, as ethical hunters, see what is happening to the deer numbers and have an idea as to how to raise the number of deer. I don't think everyone who wants a buck tag always shoots for a big rack. I know I could care less about the size of the antlers.

 

[johnr]

same here

I will see what she is doing later this afternoon...haha

 

[Flatrock]

The problem is I know way too many people who draw with 0-3 points while other people can't draw with 4-7 points. The odds should go up but they don't seem to is the point. I don't know maybe quadruple points or something but no one should be going more then 5 years without their first choice while others are drawing multiple tags during that time.

Are all these people you know applying in the same unit? I've heard this argument before from people complaining they aren't drawing a 4C mule deer tag while their buddies are applying for whitetail tags. I can guarantee you that overall, more people with 5 points will draw than people with 2 points for any given unit.

 

[guywhofishes]

let me check and see if galwhofishes is cool with it first

OK - that was a fast "hell to the no"

 

[savage270]

The problem is I know way too many people who draw with 0-3 points while other people can't draw with 4-7 points. The odds should go up but they don't seem to is the point. I don't know maybe quadruple points or something but no one should be going more then 5 years without their first choice while others are drawing multiple tags during that time.

You may know some lucky people, but overall this is just not true. They publish the draw odds every year, and the odds go up with every point in the tables.

 

[NodakBuckeye]

This ...... Is ..... 100% correct . The hunters ( cuz g and f sold them a million doe tags) did the damage . Blah blah all u want about habitat and weather . 145k tags for a decade is what did it . There's a crew I know that had 8-10 guys in it and each had minimum of 4-5 extra tags a year for many years , now 1 guy other day was wining cuz his kids haven't had tags in 4 years and blah blah blah . I looked at him and said well what goes around comes around . Hunters killed the deer . 1996-1997 were huge winters and they did no where near the damage that we the hunters did

Have several ranchers and farmers talk of finding dead deer piled up in corners and in some instances just a few feet from hay. They were not killed by hunters. Too many effing deer for what the country could handle, plain and simple. Add in miserable winters, loss of cover and over grazing and here we are. If you really think there would be more deer now if there had been fewer tags given out you should probably have your head examined. Instead of bitching and moaning about too many tags you would be bitching and moaning about all the winter killed deer and why didn't g&f do something about it.

What a crappy thankless job it must be to work for g & f and try to manage mother nature, the feds, ag, landowners,etc to try to please some of the population all of the time.

 

[NDSportsman]

Are all these people you know applying in the same unit? I've heard this argument before from people complaining they aren't drawing a 4C mule deer tag while their buddies are applying for whitetail tags. I can guarantee you that overall, more people with 5 points will draw than people with 2 points for any given unit.

Yes same unit. 4B mule deer buck tags.

 

[ndlongshot]

I don't believe it was totally weather, but combined with loss of habitat that accounted for a huge loss of deer for a couple of years. In my opinion far more than the 140K licenses sold by G&F. I happen to know several landowners in a pretty big block of land that were very fussy about who was allowed to hunt on their land and what kind of deer was allowed to be shot. Deer were plentiful on these farms, habitat was good, (lots of CRP) and harvest limited by landowners, not G&F. The kind of hunting that pissed the average hunter who wasn't allowed on the property off. How's the population today? Down like much of the rest of the state.

What caused the loss of deer on this property, CRP coming out, a few extremely cold winter with lots of snow and a very late spring. I think I'm pretty safe in saying that no more than 10-15% of the deer were harvested on this property each year and now there's not 1/3 of the deer there used to be.

You can blame farmers for taking land out of CRP but farmers are businessmen(women). Their goal is to operate at a profit. When CRP was originally put into the program the payment/acre varied around the state but I'm pretty sure it wasn't uncommon for payments in the $35-$40/acre area. 10-15 years later when the land was eligible to come out wheat was worth $10+/bushel, corn $8+/bushel, canola $10+/bushel. In many areas it was possible to have a profit well above the price received per acre for CRP. Even cash rent for those who no longer farmed the land was much higher than the CRP payment. So what would you have done? Farm at a loss so everyone else can have great deer-hunting?

In my opinion the loss of CRP is the single biggest reason for the state's loss of deer and other game animals. And that was entirely a federal program, not a state program. The purpose of the CRP program was to take land out of production to increase the price of commodities, therefore reducing the cost of subsidies to producers. Subsidies can be viewed as good or bad dependent on your viewpoint but without a doubt the subsidies to pay for CRP were the single biggest reason for out great hunting during those years. And know, the loss of CRP is the single biggest reason we may never see the "good old days" again.

And now guys can't get into CRP fast enough. Way more demand than acres available. Feds are broke and producers want in now that prices have leveled off. Sure would be nice if ND as a state would have a pot of money for our own crp program. Unfortunately we had our chance last fall and blew it. Would have been good money going to farmers for grass programs.

 

[johnr]

let me check and see if galwhofishes is cool with it first

OK - that was a fast "hell to the no"

haha, I am sure that would have been mrs johnrs response had I asked...maybe next time;:;badidea

 

[ndlongshot]

This ...... Is ..... 100% correct . The hunters ( cuz g and f sold them a million doe tags) did the damage . Blah blah all u want about habitat and weather . 145k tags for a decade is what did it . There's a crew I know that had 8-10 guys in it and each had minimum of 4-5 extra tags a year for many years , now 1 guy other day was wining cuz his kids haven't had tags in 4 years and blah blah blah . I looked at him and said well what goes around comes around . Hunters killed the deer . 1996-1997 were huge winters and they did no where near the damage that we the hunters did

The difference in 96-97 was that we had 2 million MORE acres of crp in the state than we did with teh latest bad winters. When mother nature calls, and there isnt habitat to ride out the storm....thats when populations crash.

 

[gst]

I would rather put my penis on the table and let mrs johnr draw a smiley face on it, then try to satisfy a bunch of buck crazy nd hunters. haha

Somehow I can not find anything close to a comparable discomfort in your analogy.

- - - Updated - - -

And now guys can't get into CRP fast enough. Way more demand than acres available. Feds are broke and producers want in now that prices have leveled off. Sure would be nice if ND as a state would have a pot of money for our own crp program. Unfortunately we had our chance last fall and blew it. Would have been good money going to farmers for grass programs.

So how would that have worked with committed dollars in a long term program such as CRP with $35 dollar oil?

 

[johnr]

Somehow I can not find anything close to a comparable discomfort in your analogy.

I have some stories, but I was sworn to never tell them...

 

[Flatrock]

Yes same unit. 4B mule deer buck tags.

Here are the draw odds from 2016:

0 points: 0.4%
1 point: 1.2%
2 points: 2.6%
3 points: 4.5%
4 points: 37.6%
5 points: 46.6%
6 points: 77.6%
7 and above: 100%

Some of your friends are awfully lucky and others damn lucky.

- - - Updated - - -

Have several ranchers and farmers talk of finding dead deer piled up in corners and in some instances just a few feet from hay. They were not killed by hunters. Too many effing deer for what the country could handle, plain and simple. Add in miserable winters, loss of cover and over grazing and here we are. If you really think there would be more deer now if there had been fewer tags given out you should probably have your head examined. Instead of bitching and moaning about too many tags you would be bitching and moaning about all the winter killed deer and why didn't g&f do something about it.

What a crappy thankless job it must be to work for g & f and try to manage mother nature, the feds, ag, landowners,etc to try to please some of the population all of the time.

Why can it only be 1 or the other with some guys? Can't we all agree it was a combination of too many doe tags and harsh winters? Say there weren't a ton of doe tags given out, yes some of them would have died during winter but some would have lived as well.

Why can it only be 1 or the other with some guys? Can't we all agree it was a combination of too many doe tags and harsh winters? Say there weren't a ton of doe tags given out, yes some of them would have died during winter but some would have lived as well.

I absolutely agree 100% though about the comment about it being a thankless job working for the G&F.

 

[gst]

The difference in 96-97 was that we had 2 million MORE acres of crp in the state than we did with teh latest bad winters. When mother nature calls, and there isnt habitat to ride out the storm....thats when populations crash.

When mother nature calls hard enough to kill deer CRP does not matter. Plain and simple.

Those winters when the snow was deep enough to prevent deer from getting to feed, CRP held no deer. They ended up in yards, towns, sunflower and corn fields.

Our place was surrounded by CRP. And in those winters we would still haul out dead deer every spring by dozens.

CRP helped raise more fawns and was great bird habitat

 

[dust in the wind]

I would rather put my penis on the table and let mrs johnr draw a smiley face on it, than try to satisfy a bunch of buck crazy nd hunters. haha

Johnr's version of the mood ring.... happy to really happy

 

[Duckslayer100]

CRP helped raise more fawns and was great bird habitat

Exactly...didn't do much for over-wintering, but the does that fared well until spring at least had cover to birth their young and keep them safe until the crops were high enough. Fawn survival rates were strong, so the herds bounced back quickly even when winters were exceptionally tough.

We've been lucky that the past several winters have been very mild. In all likelihood, does are surviving well and fawn mortality is relatively low despite the lack of spring cover.

Who knows? With this global warming/el nino/la nina every year, maybe we'll never have another harsh winter and the disappearing CRP acres won't really matter.

Unless you like pheasants. Or ducks. Or meadowlarks. I suppose those will take quite a hit, regardless...