Oil wells converted to fresh water wells

[wjschmaltz]

So I'm trying to follow along here. The oil companies have moved along and now the state is paying to plug the wells with tax payer money? And on top of that, they're going to use the tax payer's money to convert them into water wells for the farmers that have been getting paid out millions in royalty checks? (i understand not all surface rights holders also have mineral rights) The residents of ND should be on the phone nonstop about stuff like this.

$100,000 bond to drill a well is so laughable it hurts. The State of Alaska required a half million in bond just to operate a small soil thermal treatment operation. I've been involved with remediation projects where a 100 gallon underground diesel tank spilled and is causing massive contamination to the groundwater and $100K wouldn't even touch a project like that. What a joke and a slap in the face of the citizens of ND. Helms has been shafting the folks of ND and personally cashing in off the destruction of the land and environment so hard for decades that it makes a person want to puke. Dalrymple and Hoeven enabled him so I guess if we're pointing fingers, let's be completely fair.

Like others, I'm pro O&G and have earned my stripes as a roughneck. There is such a thing as too far for regulations when it comes to oil and gas and it's important to be "friendly" for O&G to invest in a state. But look at places like California and Alaska; they both boast environmental regulations 100x more stringent than ND and oil companies are lined up out the door to drill. It's long term certainty that is the problem when it comes to oil companies committing (in AK, stringent long term regulations are well-defined but the feds teeter on leasing; in CA leasing is less of an issue but the political climate makes it unclear what regulations will look like year-on-year). ND is a free for all of no regulation and I don't think they're ever seen a drilling permit they didn't like. I think Helms would approve drilling in a preschool playground as long as the oil company provided hearing protection for the kids.

I would love to see ND have an open drilling policy with well-defined regulations and accountability for oil companies. I promise it wouldn't slow things down a tic. I won't hold my breath.

Also, what kind of tooling is needed to plug a well and then drill down to the aquifer through the concrete (sounds like 200 feet). And then hope you know exactly where the water table is and then somehow fracture 4 inch casing, surrounded by concrete, surrounded by 5 inch casing surrounded by concrete, surrounded by 10 inch surface casing surrounded by concrete. And then get all of that back up the hole to not contaminate and/or plug the well. I know nothing about this so I'm seriously interested in how that's cheaper than simply drilling a 200 foot water well exactly to where water is. If it's seriously $75k, let me know and I'll send a buddy down there with his air rotary rig and he'll gladly drill them for $50k each and laugh his way to the bank with the extra $30K per well in his pocket.

About 15 years ago when I worked for the NDGF, we invited Ted Helms to our annual meeting to discuss wildlife and environmental issues associated with O&G development. He decided he would give his half hour presentation that he gives to everyone bragging about all the wells approved and drilled including lots of picture of wells along rivers and on outcroppings and saddles in the badlands. When he got done, the room full a frustrated fish and wildlife professionals that just listened to his destructive brag session let him have it. It was AWESOME. After about 15 minutes he cowered out and made up some excuse and went right to his pickup.

 

[Davey Crockett]

WJ , The target formation for converted oil wells to water wells is the Fox Hills, probably around 1500 feet in that area of the state. I don't know much more about the program other than than that. I'd like to find one well location on a map and figure it out from there but my only guess that makes sense is these could be remote locations that ran the old stationary engines to pump the oil so no electricity ?? Getting electricity to the well location can cost more than drilling the water well in some cases , fox hills wells flow in lower areas. All just a guess while trying to figure out the feasibility of a project like this. They lay down the rods and tubing and most likely shoot off and lay down the 5-1/2 or what ever size casing below the target zone. But getting past the cement could be the hard part in my mind. Almost always the cement migrates back into the permeable formations plus who knows how big the annulus was washed out between the formation and surface casing with all the pump HP used while drilling surface.

- - - Updated - - -

TFX , If I looked at your well report I might be able to help , there are so many variables but it could very well be an easy fix and or a way to put a bandaid on the problem to keep it from geting worse. When you clean your filters are you sure it's fine sand and not fine silt ? Easiest way is to take clean white 5 gal pail and run the hydrant with a hose and let it overflow for a while till you get some accumilated in the bottom then pour off the water and rub the contents with your finger , it will either smear or it will feel gritty. Without knowing the static water level and drawdown during enital well test and the screen/casing assembly it's about impossible to make a guess. You can PM me your location and I can find your well report online if you want or else I'd have to ask a bunch of questions before I could come up with a possible problem/solution.

 

[TFX 186]

Could a near by fresh water well be providing FW for oil field use?

Wormy,
Of the people living in my area, they either have an ok well or they can't find water by drilling and haul their own. I don't know of anyone in the area that would have a good enough well to try sell any water to the oil company's. If they have a well, the resource is precious enough that they wouldn't sell a gallon.

 

[TWN]

If you get a good sample of the sand you can send it to Johnson Screens and they will design a pre-packed screen to solve the sand problem. Down side is that sometimes their screen/filter set up will reduce the output of your well to the point it's not worthwhile. Someone above mentioned getting a camera and that would be the best place to start. Give you a better idea what is happening down there.

 

[Allen]

If you get a good sample of the sand you can send it to Johnson Screens and they will design a pre-packed screen to solve the sand problem. Down side is that sometimes their screen/filter set up will reduce the output of your well to the point it's not worthwhile. Someone above mentioned getting a camera and that would be the best place to start. Give you a better idea what is happening down there.

This, as the hydrogeologist on a few wells, this was always my recommended way to go. Pumping rates are as noted above a little conservative by nature, but Johnson has designing a screen and pack combo down to a science.

- - - Updated - - -

p.s. We need to draft wjschmaltz back to ND so he can run for office, or something. And that'd be a shame given how much I've loved the pics.

 

[eyexer]

Wormy,
Of the people living in my area, they either have an ok well or they can't find water by drilling and haul their own. I don't know of anyone in the area that would have a good enough well to try sell any water to the oil company's. If they have a well, the resource is precious enough that they wouldn't sell a gallon.

I believe it’s illegal to sell water from a non industrial well now

 

[Davey Crockett]

He continues to pull the wool over our eyes.


https://esguniversity.substack.com/p/your-grandchildrens-grandchildren

https://esguniversity.substack.com/...iHbMQSgFmH7-8gA3WHpdxiF4Zcl3qer2Skm1g9bAG90tk

 

[Davey Crockett]

Helms is a snake in the grass , I'm glad someone called him out.

https://esguniversity.substack.com/...n?utm_source=/search/helms&utm_medium=reader2

 

[lunkerslayer]

Maybe they can build a pipeline from the east side of the state and take lake agazzi aquifer to use in fracking, or does the water need to be low salinity. The aquifer in the red river valley is too salty to be used for human purposes other then for a few farmers that use it for irrigation of potatoes.

 

[Davey Crockett]

It's not about the water as much as it is about the snake in the grass.

 

[Allen]

Maybe they can build a pipeline from the east side of the state and take lake agazzi aquifer to use in fracking, or does the water need to be low salinity. The aquifer in the red river valley is too salty to be used for human purposes other then for a few farmers that use it for irrigation of potatoes.

I am not aware of any aquifer named after Lake Agassiz, what I am reasonably certain you are referring to is the Dakota Sandstone that daylights out in the Red River Valley. At one point the immense weight of the glaciers in that area reversed flow in the Dakota Sandstone (at least locally) and it freshened up the nearby portion of the Dakota Sandstone. People have nearly wrecked the freshwater areas of the Dakota by installing wells that flowed fresh water, mostly north of Grand Forks. At first they thought it was great, they had an artesian source of fresh water, but over time many of those once fresh and artesian wells either dried up or they turned saline. The State at one point was trying to find some old wells that were abandoned and were just wasting the fresh water, but I'm not sure if there's still an active effort to locate and plug them.

BTW, the Dakota Sandstone also exists in western ND where it is quite saline. Enough so that I am not aware of any wells that are used to produce water from it west of the RRV.

The recharge area for the Dakota Sandstone is the Black Hills of SD although it is reasonable to believe that in something this large there are other small sources of recharge, probably through the upper and lower confining units.