Prairie legacy wilderness

Do you support having Wilderness areas in ND?

  • Yes

    Votes: 56 69.1%
  • No

    Votes: 25 30.9%

  • Total voters
    81

gst

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It seems to be a thing........glad it helps Volmer and the site out though......I'm sure it is working as intended.....it was a nice evening though, went back out and cut oats hay till about 10 after supper at 7:38.......

Thread: Prairie legacy wilderness
Go outside and enjoy this lovely evening you walrus looking cockbag
 


Kurtr

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Not to hijack but how does that person even know what a walrus cockbag looks like?
 

Fishmission

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Not to hijack but how does that person even know what a walrus cockbag looks like?
IMG_2993.JPG
 

Fritz the Cat

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To operate, the Badlands Conservation Alliance needs funds. They were getting money from the Tortuga Foundation located in New York City and the Wilderness Society also back east. The Wilderness Society is a non-profit but does make much profit by owning stock in Caterpillar, John Deere and Cummins. Corporations that make bulldozers, diesel engines, logging trucks and heavy equipment used to "invade" forests. Weird right. Well... money isn't made on idle acres.

In 2015 these two funding sources dried up. BCA are getting a little money from:

ND Natural Resources Trust
The ND Chapter of the Wildlife Society
The ND Chapter of the Wildlife Federation
Bismarck Lewis and Clark Club
World Wildlife Fund

They need money bad because of the struggle over section line roads. A few years ago 4 ND counties along with the Attorney Generals Office sued to build up section lines through Forest Service land. If that happens say goodbye to their wilderness designation. Needing to intervene in the case the Badlands Conservation Alliance borrowed legal counsel from Earth Justice. And they partnered with out of State Sierra Club and the National Parks Conservation Association.

http://sd.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.20150601_0000675.C08.htm/qx

The above case is two years old and I believe it has taken a whole new dimension.

But it is only 5 % of the Grasslands right? Look at the names, orgs and faces and it becomes clear these are the same people who pushed the 5% oil revenue rip off. They would love to grow the wildlife industry to more acres, job opportunities and friends. They desperately need friends.

This guy is laying on his psychiatrists couch yelling, "hey Doc, you're a quack, your whole profession is a bunch of blood sucking vampires making money off the less fortunate. My neighbors are all a bunch of dumb cocksuckers, I know way way more them, and the rich...the rich don't get me started....and....and...so tell me something Doc, how come I don't have any friends?
 

gst

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And therein lies the importance of looking to what these orgs have pushed in other states often out west.........unless you think their ideals won;t get pushed here in ND.
 


Kentucky Windage

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It seems to be a thing........glad it helps Volmer and the site out though......I'm sure it is working as intended.....it was a nice evening though, went back out and cut oats hay till about 10 after supper at 7:38.......

Thread: Prairie legacy wilderness
Go outside and enjoy this lovely evening you walrus looking cockbag

This made me laugh. Not that it was directed toward you GST, just never heard that line before.
 

gst

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This made me laugh. Not that it was directed toward you GST, just never heard that line before.

:) I don;t know if the people sending these are getting the results they are looking for cuz they make me laugh more often than not too.

Hopefully sending them makes them feel a little better about themselves as well.
 

Apres

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Fritz/gst again thanks for the info. Have you ever read the book "If you give a mouse a cookie"? Let me summarize it for you... essential if you give a mouse a cookie it becomes your friend asks you for a bunch of favors and eventually ends up sleeping with your mom... seems a little far fetched doesn't it.

So your saying we shouldn't save any of our beautiful native landscape in it's natural form. Not even 5% of this one area. We should road it and mine it on boom and bust cycles and watch radioactive waste get tossed in the ditches, spills happen, and native animal habitat dwindle. All because your worried about what theoretical stuff might happen after the designation.
First it's the wilderness designation. Then there will be another time period to help facilitate change and we get to discuss those next changes and we get to vote and go to the meaningless comment period meetings. You can give a mouse a cookie and still throw him back outside.

I read the article about the monument in Utah that sucks for those people I hate that that happened but that was there and this is here and there are a completely different set of circumstances.

Let's evaluate the plan thats written and not the what if's after that. If you stripped the names from this group and reevaluated it. how much would it change your decision.

What would your proposal be if 58% of ND wanted to save 5% of the LMNG? Mine would be remarkably similiar.

Can anybody clarify this for me? If they feds do transfer ownership to the states to manage, as I understood it they still couldn't change the wilderness designation but could sell the remaining land in the LMNG's
 

Kurtr

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That's not what they are saying. What they are saying is the people who are behind this are doing things for behind the scenes financial gains and there is more to it than just saving the grass lands. The ramifications can have long lasting effects it is like the ESA that was a good idea all twisted up now
 

Obi-Wan

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Let's evaluate the plan thats written and not the what if's after that.

That would be like playing chess blindfolded, if you don't consider the what ifs in any move you may find yourself in checkmate.


You seem to want to ignore the what ifs in the plan you agree with then on plans you don't agree on you want to consider the what ifs.
 
Last edited:


PrairieGhost

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That would be like playing chess blindfolded, if you don't consider the what ifs in any move you may find yourself in checkmate.


You seem to want to ignore the what ifs in the plan you agree with then on plans you don't agree on you want to consider the what ifs.

We also have to consider the what ifs if the feds turned the land over to the states. We have historical proof of what they would do.
 

Fritz the Cat

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Apres said,

Let's evaluate the plan thats written and not the what if's after that. If you stripped the names from this group and reevaluated it. how much would it change your decision.

If you stripped the names there wouldn't be a group.

What would your proposal be if 58% of ND wanted to save 5% of the LMNG?

Are you suggesting majority rule or 58% of the voters? The poll on this thread says 22 for 17 against. I wouldn't use it as a yardstick.

Apres, you started this thread as a poll. A poll is a float or a feeler to gauge the crowd. To write down the pros and cons of discussions and finally mitigate or neutralize the cons at a later date.


Have I read the book, "If you give a mouse a cookie?" Well........that is a children's book. Apres, are you female?
 

gst

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Fritz/gst again thanks for the info. Have you ever read the book "If you give a mouse a cookie"? Let me summarize it for you... essential if you give a mouse a cookie it becomes your friend asks you for a bunch of favors and eventually ends up sleeping with your mom... seems a little far fetched doesn't it.

So your saying we shouldn't save any of our beautiful native landscape in it's natural form. Not even 5% of this one area. We should road it and mine it on boom and bust cycles and watch radioactive waste get tossed in the ditches, spills happen, and native animal habitat dwindle. All because your worried about what theoretical stuff might happen after the designation.
First it's the wilderness designation. Then there will be another time period to help facilitate change and we get to discuss those next changes and we get to vote and go to the meaningless comment period meetings. You can give a mouse a cookie and still throw him back outside.

I read the article about the monument in Utah that sucks for those people I hate that that happened but that was there and this is here and there are a completely different set of circumstances.

Let's evaluate the plan thats written and not the what if's after that. If you stripped the names from this group and reevaluated it. how much would it change your decision.

What would your proposal be if 58% of ND wanted to save 5% of the LMNG? Mine would be remarkably similiar.

Can anybody clarify this for me? If they feds do transfer ownership to the states to manage, as I understood it they still couldn't change the wilderness designation but could sell the remaining land in the LMNG's

Yes I used to read that book to my kids when they were little.

As was said, NO that is not what is being said. I spelled it out clearly that I support saving many of these "wild" places.

What you seem to want to ignore is that these are not "theoretical stuff" but rather very real agendas being carried out in other states.

Do you honestly think orgs like the Sierra Club would not use the courts to make changes to retrictions here in ND just becasue it is ND???

It has been PROVEN time and again all across the west that the courts tell you the mouse has to stay and yet you seem ot wish to deny fact.

What facts in the links I shared is it you do not wish to accept as reality, that these law suits happen? That the area containing ND is the area where the USFS has lost most of their cases in court? That these orgs will not try to impact the LMNG as they have other places?

Did you even read the articles and information I provided in the links?

It is not just Utah that has to deal with these consequences that "sucks for those people".

the thing you don;t seem to realize if one mouse gets in your house.......even if you throw that one out there will be another that gets in until you prevent the means they have access to get into your house.

- - - Updated - - -

We also have to consider the what ifs if the feds turned the land over to the states. We have historical proof of what they would do.


Who here is advocating that for this 5% plains?

No one. This is simply about a designation.

Maybe you should just stick to maligning Smokey Bear..........

- - - Updated - - -

How about a poll that asks this question,

1. Should we as tax payers be paying litigation costs of groups like the Center for Biological Diversity and the Sierra Club to remove multiple uses from public lands?

2. Should groups like CBD and SC and BCH&A be able to use the courts to end run legislative Acts regarding public lands

How about these.

1. Do you honestly think the Center for Biological Diversity and the Sierra Club support hunting?

2. After the CBD and SC are successful in removing all other multiple usage from public lands, will they target hunting?

- - - Updated - - -

Let's evaluate the plan thats written and not the what if's after that. If you stripped the names from this group and reevaluated it. how much would it change your decision.

What would your proposal be if 58% of ND wanted to save 5% of the LMNG? Mine would be remarkably similiar.

You ask to ignore the "what ifs" .......then ask two "what if" questions...........

Please explain why this group would use a 37 year old House report that has had the information contained in it trampled all over to try and ease the concerns of people over what might happen?

Do you think these people are that disconnected from reality? Or do they know what has happened time and again and are simply trying to keep from having to answer for that?

It would appear this group is either incredibly naive or very disingenuous.

If ND residents (and not outside groups based on the east coast gaining millions of dollars in donations from whacked out environs thru the courts) could determine the management of these lands here in ND I would support it.

If you could rope and catch a winged unicorn, (maybe after baiting it close enough with a pile of corn) would you saddle it up and ride across the prairie skies?

- - - Updated - - -

From another thread. The reality you seem to wish to ignore impacts not only forest lands but grasslands as well.

http://forestpolicypub.com/wp-conten...%80%932002.pdf


ConclusionThis study analyzed a census of legalchallenges to Forest Service national forestmanagement initiated from 1989 to 2002; itrepresents the most complete picture of nationalforest litigation assembled to date.The results confirm many policymakers’ andstakeholders’ perceptions: three of every four cases involve parties seeking less resource use; Region 6, the Pacific Northwest, experiencedalmost a quarter of all litigation; andNEPA was the statutory basis in nearly 7 ofevery 10 cases.

We expected variation in the number ofcases by Forest Service region. Other researchreported similar findings. However,the large volume of Region 6 cases was unforeseen,despite the public focus on thespotted owl and the Northwest Forest Plan.The underlying cause of this volume mayinvolve the region’s large number of bothendangered species and advocacy organizations.

Although logging was the focusof most lawsuits, other management activitiesaccounted for more than 60% of cases.

Planning cases (involving a challenge toa national forest’s land and resource managementplan) and logging cases each accountedfor more than 10% of all cases.Combined, salvage and logging cases represented37.8% of all cases. The Forest Servicewin, loss, and settlement rates in cases involvingthese activities were close to its overallpercentages during this time. The ForestService won more than 65% of cases involvingmining, road (construction or decommission),and special-use permits (issued atthe Forest Service’s discretion for a widerange of activities, such as concessions, skiareas, facility use, and tour guides). It lost more than a quarter of its wilderness and wildlife cases. It was more likely to settle watercases (including dams, water diversion,and riparian zone management) than anyother category of case.


The Forest Service was more likely to lose challenges in Region 1 (North Dakota
, Montana, and northern Idaho), and it also settled the most cases in this region (28.7%). T
 

Fritz the Cat

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We also have to consider the what ifs if the feds turned the land over to the states. We have historical proof of what they would do.

STALEMATE.......

In my very first post I relayed some info on the people fronting this.

During the Legislative session last year Senator Triplett was reprimanded for verbally attacking fellow state Senator Margaret Sitte, and forced the Senator chamber to grind to a halt in the middle of a pro-life vote when she stormed out of the Senate chamber without leave.

PrairieGhost, you would have liked former (R)Sen. Margaret Sitte. She is very much pro-life. A great conservative. I visited with her a few times and no she wouldn't be nuts for this wildlands designation like her polar opposite former (D)Sen. Connie Triplet.

This has to be tough for a conservative like you always changing lanes or siding with a camp that goes against conservatism. You're getting whipsawed man. :D
 


gst

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So how many times does one have to side with liberals/democrats before you are an official "pervert"? :D

- - - Updated - - -

We learn as we go, but sometimes a few people don't. Smoky the Bear was a real bad idea.

:;:smokin
 

PrairieGhost

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This has to be tough for a conservative like you always changing lanes or siding with a camp that goes against conservatism. You're getting whipsawed man. :D
Sometimes I feel like that. On the other hand why does conservatism have to be anti conservation? I would think a true conservative would be ----- well conservative, as in conservation of more than money.

This news from the Game and Fish moments ago. Good news, but I'll bet it will cause some wet pampers.
With elk season opening Sept. 1 and grouse and partridge seasons to follow starting Sept. 9, the State Game and Fish Department and U.S. Forest Service remind hunters that use of firearms is allowed on the Little Missouri National Grasslands by legally licensed hunters.

If we get that wilderness classification I would guess it will be that much harder to close it down. Hmmm
 

gst

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Sometimes I feel like that. On the other hand why does conservatism have to be anti conservation? I would think a true conservative would be ----- well conservative, as in conservation of more than money.

This news from the Game and Fish moments ago. Good news, but I'll bet it will cause some wet pampers.

With elk season opening Sept. 1 and grouse and partridge seasons to follow starting Sept. 9, the State Game and Fish Department and U.S. Forest Service remind hunters that use of firearms is allowed on the Little Missouri National Grasslands by legally licensed hunters.

If we get that wilderness classification I would guess it will be that much harder to close it down. Hmmm

Predictable.

Exactly why would a wilderness designation make it harder to close an area to the use of fire arms while hunting becasue of fire danger concerns plains? Is there any logic behind this claim or just the same old crap we have become accustomed too?
 

gst

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So I wonder how many of the 28 yes votes knew this?

So how will a court rule when HSUS or another org sues claiming hunting is interfering with their "use and enjoyment of the area"?

http://www.wilderness.net/NWPS/docu...visions and Prohibited and Permitted Uses.pdf

Area Closures to Public Access

In addition, several wilderness statutes authorized closing certain wilderness areas to some publicaccess. Five statutes authorized temporarily closing areas to hunting, fishing, and trapping forpublic safety, administration, and use and enjoyment of the areas.18
 

PrairieGhost

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STALEMATE.......
In this case stalemate is a lot like "If it ain't broke don't fix it". I could live with that if you can. Tell you what Fritz you convince your friends to stop trying to take it and nearly every hunter will support grazing in the multiple use plan. Together we could tell groups like the Sierra Club to take a hike.
 


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