SB 2315 / Lockout

[eyexer]

How about a FOI request on all their state email accounts. Give em a little judicial watch treatment. Then publish the emails. ala wiki leaks

 

[Dirty]

I miss the good old days as well when unposted land was plenty and hunting access was almost unlimited and I am sad my kids won’t experience that as I did. I will continue to show them how successful it can be to knock on a door and get permission by being friendly. It is still a very rewarding and often successful method to gain access to hunting ground.
However...I’m done fighting this fight. I now wish this would have passed a few sessions ago as a straight “everything is posted” law rather than the fiasco it is now. I have hunted in other states where all land is posted. Sometimes it’s easy to get permission and sometimes it’s not. I admire the perseverance some of you have had with this, but with each additional day of pushback I feel like landowner/hunter relations are straining. The day will come soon when this change does occur and what I fear that we are gonna end up with after all of the battling is a bigger mess than we probably could have imagined...and a much worse hunting situation than we thought possible.

Good luck to all of you who still have the energy and the personal reasons to keep this up. I’m out of both and to tell you the truth, I am not even sure exactly where the focus lies on the issue anymore. I feel like somewhere along the way it shifted from hunting and land access to just winning a fight at all costs.

 

[FishSticks]

Anyone else see the irony of them putting signs up to support a measure that would ultimately make posting signs unnecessary? Bunch of idiots.

My rep stopped by my house the other day and I praised him for voting against against SB 2315. Ultimately if you are opposed to this make sure your rep knows and you know how they voted last time.

 

[eyexer]

If this does ever pass the attitude towards ag is going to be horrendous. It’s not good now but it’s gonna go off the cliff.

 

[pointer]

My biggest problem with this is renters, in this area a lot of the land is rented, renters post but the owners say come on in leaves me a little iffy if may get my ass chewed

 

[eyexer]

I actually like that situation because it reminds them guys they don’t own the land.

 

[fireone]

" Yeah, well, the electronic posting program had a 1.5% usage rate in the three trial counties."

I've put about 2000 miles on the truck since season started Sept. 1 and have seen exactly 2 of these Lockout signs in central ND. Both were on land that had been posted before. After listening to the testimony on the bill in 2019 you would have thought those 3 counties would be plastered with signs. Not. A small bunch of people can raise a lot of hell. There is a lesson in that for sportsmen when it comes to opposing these stupid bills.

 

[eyexer]

You just have to pay the legislators with the biggest mouths.

 

[PrairieGhost]

You just have to pay the legislators with the biggest mouths.

True that :;:cheers. They should just carry a sign "For sale".

 

[dustit]

ND Lockout - Bob Wheeler, Clayton Pederson on the WDAY Jay Thomas Radio Show today, link below.

https://www.inforum.com/entertainment/6704075-Jay-Thomas-Show-Rob-Port-Bob-Wheeler-Clayton-Pederson

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ND Lockout - Bob Wheeler, Clayton Pederson on the WDAY Jay Thomas Radio Show today, link below.

https://www.inforum.com/entertainment/6704075-Jay-Thomas-Show-Rob-Port-Bob-Wheeler-Clayton-Pederson

Starts at about the 1 hour into the show mark.

 

[deleted member]

:bigpuke:

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don't get me wrong. i get it. "our" side isn't very good at articulating the problems with the everything posted idea.

one of the callers touched on it. the lack of public land in this state and the inability to add any more is a serious problem that should be addressed before we go this route. we don't need to actually add more land. but, we need to change the laws to make it easier to do so.

when we go out west for opener, we almost exclusively hunt unposted stuff. and its not like i have extra days to go out there in advance and seek out people. its a one weekend thing barely over 48 hours. i have to think every one of those landowners who currently don't post their stuff couldn't give two shits if i hunt... that's why they never posted their land and that's why they have never confronted me when i hunted it.

and i am not sure why its so difficult to post unless a fella owns 20,000 acres. we post some land for a friend (3,000 acres maybe). now that we went to metal signs, on metal posts, its barely an hour project every year to check signs. i do it the night before duck opener whilst scouting. if i lived and farmed it, it would barely take any extra time since i would be out there anyway. total cost for upwards of 150 signs was like 300. we supplied signs for like 4-5 landowning friends. every so often, we have to replace one since my buddy isn't too concerned if he hits one with the mower. if he paid for the signs or gave to shits about who was out there, he probably wouldn't run so many over. but, he doesn't. he just doesn't want to be bothered. at all.

one of my other biggest landowning friends is the exact same way. doesn't want to be bothered. so, he doesn't post at all. won't even let us post it and pay for them cause he knows they will just pull in his yard or call him instead of calling the number on the poster. at this point, we allow hunters (probably too many) on the land we post. and his land is open to all. i guarantee you if they need to field 250 calls a year each (like i currently do on the one friends land) it isn't going to help landowner relations. its gonna hurt them. after about 50 calls or visits, i bet the one friend is gonna completely lose it and say "fuck ya all! leave me the hell alone please!".

absentee landownership without contact information is also an issue. those folks don't post now either. they don't live here and couldn't care who is wandering the drainage ditch in their rented and harvested wheat field.

the other caller touched on it too. a lot of people come here for the "access" from other states. the folks that rent our cabin fucking love the wide open spaces, unposted land, gravel roads every mile, etc... they say its a damn dream. a lot of them will bypass this state for others if this passes. the other states either have a bunch more public land or better actual hunting opportunities. the unposted rule in this state is what sets us apart and draws folks here. bad apples are the rarity not the norm.

i won't be too butt hurt if this passes. and like i said... i understand their position. but, do think the "other" side has a lot of concerns, retorts, etc... that certainly need to be taken into consideration.

 

[eyexer]

One of the biggest hurdles with all being closed is a huge percentage of land owners don’t post and don’t care. But renter always posted it. So now they’re going to get harassed to hunt and they don’t give a shit. That alone is going to be a bit ass can of worms. This whole thing is literally about not wanting to have to take the time and spend the money to stick up signs. And in reality if it comes down to the bitter end in the battle then
I think most of us would let them post via onyx. But Is open unless posted via onyx. That will relieve them of the burden of having to put signs up. And it has to be done by the land owner not the renter.

 

[SLE]

Although many have already voted, this is just a reminder that this election is your opportunity to vote for representatives that support your stance on this subject in either regard. The voting history on 2315 can be seen on page 2 of this thread.

 

[eyexer]

Them bastards will never get my vote again

 

[scrotcaster]

Just your friendly reminder today

 

[dustit]

Looks like another proposal this year based on an article from Northland Outdoors (aka The Forum). Article and Bill Links below.

https://www.inforum.com/northland-o...low-ND-landowners-to-electronically-post-land

https://www.scribd.com/document/484549114/Electronic-Posting-Bill#from_embed

https://www.scribd.com/document/484549390/Trespass-Bill#from_embed

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Looks like another proposal this year based on an article from Northland Outdoors (aka The Forum). Article and Bill Links below.

https://www.inforum.com/northland-o...low-ND-landowners-to-electronically-post-land

https://www.scribd.com/document/484549114/Electronic-Posting-Bill#from_embed

https://www.scribd.com/document/484549390/Trespass-Bill#from_embed

And for those that don't have access to the article...

McFeely: Proposed bill would allow ND landowners to electronically post land
While many states like neighboring Minnesota and South Dakota assume private land is off-limits, North Dakota has a long tradition of open access. It's been a contentious point for farmers and ranchers for at least the last three decades as more waterfowl, pheasant and deer hunters have descended on rural North Dakota each fall
Written By: Mike McFeely | Nov 17th 2020 - 7am.
A proposed bill in North Dakota's legislature would make make electronic posting equal to physical posting when it comes to private property. Both methods would be legitimate with the same penalties for violations. . Forum News Service file photo
FARGO — North Dakota would become the first state to allow the electronic posting of private land, potentially bridging a wide and historic gap between landowners and hunters, if lawmakers pass a proposed bill in the upcoming legislative session.
"I have mixed emotions about it because it's far from perfect, but generally I'm happy with it," said Killdeer rancher Joe Schletter, one of two landowner representatives on the legislature's interim natural resources committee that put together the proposal. "It's a big compromise, but it's a step in the right direction."
North Dakota law allows hunting and access without permission if private land is not posted with "No Hunting" or "No Trespassing" signs. The onus is on landowners to post their land with signs if they want to restrict access.
While many states like neighboring Minnesota and South Dakota assume private land is off-limits, North Dakota has a long tradition of open access. It's been a contentious point for farmers and ranchers for at least the last three decades as more waterfowl, pheasant and deer hunters have descended on rural North Dakota.
Electronic Posting Bill by inforumdocs on Scribd
Besides being a private-property rights issue, a recurring landowner frustration has been the cost and effort to post land. There've been numerous bills introduced in previous legislatures to close access. That pitted landowners against sportsmen's groups.
Sen. Robert Erbele, R-Lehr, who chaired the interim committee, is hopeful three draft bills will bring the competing interests together, even as he acknowledges there is more work to do.
"We've come together in a very collaborative process," Erbele said. "It's like we finally said, 'Here's the problem. What's the solution?""
The first and meatiest bill would make electronic posting equal to physical posting. Both methods would be legitimate with the same penalties for violations.
A three-county trial study this fall for electronic posting — in Ramsey, Richland and Slope counties — tested the functionality of the system, but was not part of the law. The North Dakota Game and Fish Department said 79 landowners in the three counties participated in the pilot study. It totaled 268 parcels and 38,600 acres.
Erbele said the test study appears to be a success, and the proposed bill would expand electronic posting to all 53 counties. A program developed by Game and Fish and the state's information technology department using data from county geographic information systems is easy to navigate for landowners and sportsmen, Erbele said.
Landowners can post their land with a few mouse clicks, and hunters can locate posted land either with a phone application or downloaded maps. Maps can also be printed from the Game and Fish website.
"I can post my land in the time it takes me to find my stapler," said Erbele, a rancher.
The app allows hunters to determine a point of contact on posted land, allowing them to call or email for permission.
Trespass Bill by inforumdocs on Scribd
The bill would allow landowners who want to post their land to do so easily and affordably while allowing landowners who don't want to post the freedom to maintain the status quo, said interim committee member Brian Schanilec, of Forest River, a landowner, hunter and member of numerous sportsmen's clubs.
Schanilec is a strong hunting advocate who believes North Dakota's accessible land helps keep tradition alive in a sport that is shrinking nationwide. As a farmer and landowner, he posts some land and leaves other parcels open for access.
"I think we have some momentum with this," Schanilec said. "I've heard it has 'hallway support' at the Capitol. Some legislators would like to take care of this because it comes up every session and they would like to not spend so much time on it. They have other things they'd like to be working on."
The second draft bill would keep the interim committee intact to guide the rollout of electronic posting and work out any potential kinks in future legislative sessions.
Erbele deems the third proposal "a work in progress," addressing property rights concerns outside of hunting access. Some landowners, like Schletter, believe criminal trespass on their property is as big of an issue as hunting.
"I think what we're doing gives more benefit from the sportsmen's side of it than other concerns. Unfortunately, it doesn't address enough on the criminal trespass side of it," he said.
Schletter said he has as many problems with non-hunters as hunters on his ranch in the Badlands of western North Dakota. He said he's had tour buses drop off hikers, people camping without permission and snowmobiles damaging his pastures.
"I'm in the camp that believes private land is private land, and I think we need to do more to address that," Schletter said.
Readers can reach Forum columnist Mike McFeely at mmcfeely@forumcomm.com or 701-451-5655

 

[ndlongshot]

Suggestion:

If this goes statewide, the annual DEFAULT designation for property is UNPOSTED and OPEN, unless closed by the owner. The closing or posting needs to be redone annually, just like signs need to be signed for the appropriate year.

I know they are trying to close it all down automatically and have landowners switch it to OPEN. Thats Bullshit.

 

[NDSportsman]

I was out in southwestern ND last week and finally saw a few of these "ND Lockout" signs. They were on pay to hunt land that's leased by cannonball. That land has never not been posted solid. Still have yet to see these signs on any land that used to be unposted or non pay to hunt property. Shows who's really pushing this agenda.

 

[dustit]

Suggestion:

If this goes statewide, the annual DEFAULT designation for property is UNPOSTED and OPEN, unless closed by the owner. The closing or posting needs to be redone annually, just like signs need to be signed for the appropriate year.

I know they are trying to close it all down automatically and have landowners switch it to OPEN. Thats Bullshit.

I think this is also telling if you click on the trespassing link in the description is states...

"[FONT=&quot]A "vehicle bill" regarding trespassing in North Dakota that Sen. Robert Erbele hopes will lead to further discussion and possible amendments."[/FONT]

 

[Migrator Man]

Suggestion:

If this goes statewide, the annual DEFAULT designation for property is UNPOSTED and OPEN, unless closed by the owner. The closing or posting needs to be redone annually, just like signs need to be signed for the appropriate year.

I know they are trying to close it all down automatically and have landowners switch it to OPEN. Thats Bullshit.

Exactly they need to make the effort to post digitally or physically otherwise it should remain open to hunting. Most of the land open to hunters is absentee landowners that could care less if I hunt their land.

Talk about confusion!

You know who won’t obey this new posting law are the same people who do not obey it now and many of them are not even hunters. When are they going to propose a law to actually reduce the trespassing? Some hunters may trespass but they are not the crux of the problem. They need to quit blaming hunters and come up with some stiffer trespass penalties!