Deer Baiting Ban

[Fly Carpin]

Flat-earthers and climate change deniers are not interchangeable. Flat-earther refers to people who think the earth is a flat disc with the arctic in the middle, and Antarctica is a 150-foot tall ice wall that surrounds the edge. Oh and also that it's guarded by NASA to keep people from falling off. If you believe this, please wear a tinfoil hat so we can identify you in public and stay away.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Earth is round. So which time zone do you live in?

Today at the ND Board of Animal Health meeting, Casey from ND Game and Fish reported they have two cases of CWD in the southwest part of the State again. They have not done a full blown press release because they had a little mishap. A buck deer head was left at the collection site with the skull plate removed. The tag stayed with the antlers and the carcass tag with the meat. They provide you with a tag at that site to put on the discarded head. The hunter incorrectly wrote his license number down. They have it narrowed down to a few people.

I asked Casey what Game and Fish can do for containment, hand out more licenses? He said they have. The idea is to keep the population low enough that the deer aren't expanding outward but not too low creating a vacuum pulling other deer in.

More.....the CWD positive mule deer buck found in the northwest part of ND (3A1) was near Alkabo, northwest of Grenora or a little west of Fortuna. I had never heard of Alkabo ND before.

Highway 2 or Montana's Hi-Line lit up this year. 2 in Blaine County, 1 in Phillips and 2 in Valley Counties.

 

[CutEm]

The best part of this whole thing is how terrified some people are of losing their precious corn pile. Its crazy to me how passionately people will defend the easy button.

Is it a knee jerk reaction? Absolutely. Reading through this I see mention of other states that have tried banning baiting to no effect. One could probably argue that the progression of the disease was to far along in the deer herd. If the game and fish did nothing the masses would cry about how stupid they were for not doing anything when they had the chance. Now that they are trying to do something (the only thing science has shown that may have a positive affect) people are up in arms about how stupid they are for even considering taking away baiting.

It doesn't matter anyways. They could ban it and people are still going to bait all over the place because they feel its their right, "how else could I kill a deer?". The all mighty landowner can't have his property rights infringed on.

 

[Obi-Wan]

The best part of this whole thing is how terrified some people are of losing their precious corn pile. Its crazy to me how passionately people will defend the easy button.

Is it a knee jerk reaction? Absolutely. Reading through this I see mention of other states that have tried banning baiting to no effect. One could probably argue that the progression of the disease was to far along in the deer herd. If the game and fish did nothing the masses would cry about how stupid they were for not doing anything when they had the chance. Now that they are trying to do something (the only thing science has shown that may have a positive affect) people are up in arms about how stupid they are for even considering taking away baiting.

It doesn't matter anyways. They could ban it and people are still going to bait all over the place because they feel its their right, "how else could I kill a deer?". The all mighty landowner can't have his property rights infringed on.

https://youtu.be/yCFB2akLh4s

 

[eyexer]

They will no doubt have to have a multi-faceted approach to this. And one of those approaches will more than likely be banning baiting Would some people still continue to bait? Of course. Just like some people keep more fish and shoot more birds etc. Laws only apply to those willing to abide by them.

 

[Allen]

The Game and Fish doesn't enforce the baiting ban anyway. I know someone in the southwest part of the state who baits deer. I talked to one of the Game Wardens in that area, and they said that they couldn't prosecute because they would have to arrest every little old lady who feed deer.

I'm pretty sure this is incorrect.

There has never been a push to make things like grain spills, bird feeders, or food plots illegal. What has always been on the table though is a ban of HUNTING over bait. That simply means there would have to be some rules on how long a place is considered off limits to hunting if there has been a pile of food intentionally placed there to attract deer.

Note, the NDGF does NOT have the authority to ban bird feeders, etc. Their authority is pretty much limited to actual hunting and fishing activities. Boating is a notable exception, where they can ticket people for not having registered boats, proper number of life jackets, etc. Offhand, I can't think of anything outside of boating where they have been given the authority AND the mission to enforce laws and regulations. Remember, they don't even have much say when it comes to managing captive deer, elk, or bison.

In short, that GW would be incorrect in his/her interpretation of the law.

From the 2018 Deer Hunting Regulations:
HUNTING BIG GAME OVER BAIT
It is unlawful for an individual to hunt big game over bait, or place bait toattract big game for the purpose of hunting, in deer hunting units 3C westof the Missouri River, 3E1, 3E2, 3F1 and 3F2. Placing of bait for any purposeis prohibited on all Department wildlife management areas. Huntingover bait is defined as the placement and/or use of bait(s) for attracting biggame and other wildlife to a specific location for the purpose of hunting.Baits include but are not limited to grains, minerals, salts, fruits, vegetables,hay, or any other natural or manufactured foods. The designation does notapply to the use of scents and lures, water, food plots, standing crops orlivestock feeds used in standard practices.Hunting over bait is also not allowed on all U.S. Fish and Wildlife Servicenational wildlife refuges and waterfowl production areas; U.S. Forest Servicenational grasslands; and all North Dakota state school, state park andstate forest service lands.

 

[eyexer]

I believe you will always have an argument from bow hunters that baiting doesn't contribute to the spreading of CWD. They have to take that stance regardless if or when studies indicate it does. They have to because if they do admit it does they are basically admitting they were no doubt the cause of spreading CWD. Who the hell wants that on their conscience. The bow hunting lobby will fight that to the bitter end I would suspect. And I don't blame them for that. I guess I would do the same thing if I was in their shoes.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Note, the NDGF does NOT have the authority to ban bird feeders, etc. Their authority is pretty much limited to actual hunting and fishing activities. Boating is a notable exception, where they can ticket people for not having registered boats, proper number of life jackets, etc. Offhand, I can't think of anything outside of boating where they have been given the authority AND the mission to enforce laws and regulations. Remember, they don't even have much say when it comes to managing captive deer, elk, or bison.

Captive deer are under the bailiwick of the Game and Fish while farmed elk and bison are not. The Ag department and the Game and Fish work very closely together because many diseases such as tuberculosis

overlap ​

between wildlife and livestock. Shared information, resources and equipment. That's a good thing. That is your State Agencies working together. This new fellow, Casey from Game and Fish is a good fit.

The former Game and Fish DVM, Dan Grove moved back to the hills of his native Tennessee.

 

[guywhofishes]

"Origins

The precise location and mode of CWD development is not known. The condition was first noted in 1967 in research mule deer herds in Colorado, but not confirmed as a TSE until the 1970s. By the late 1970s, CWD was recognized in captive facilities in Colorado and Wyoming in mule deer, black-tailed deer, and elk. In 1981, the disease was identified first in the wild in elk in Colorado, followed shortly by mule deer in 1985 in both Colorado and Wyoming. At that time, an endemic zone for the disease was established in those states. CWD, however, spread to captive herds in Saskatchewan, Canada in the mid-1990s, and to Oklahoma and Nebraska, and wild cervids in Saskatchewan by the year 2000.
It was not until 2001 that CWD was identified in white-tailed deer, in South Dakota wild herds, and in a captive herd in Nebraska. In the following years, CWD spread to Minnesota, Wisconsin, New Mexico, Utah, Illinois, Kansas, Virginia, North Dakota, Iowa, Pennsylvania, Texas in 2012, and finally Ohio in 2014. In 2015, Michigan confirmed the first case of CWD in wild white-tailed deer. Currently 21 states and 2 Canadian provinces have CWD.
While CWD was first detected in captive mule deer, it has long-since spread to other cervids. Early reports indicated that transmission outside of mule deer was not possible, followed shortly by infection detected in elk. Eventually, infections in white-tailed deer, moose, and black-tailed deer (sub-species of mule deer) were detected. More recently, red deer were determined susceptible to infection in a research facility."

Maybe it's the CORN????

 

[guywhofishes]

Or are ungulate feed supply companies grinding up animal protein into their feeds once the big feed companies couldn't feed it to cattle? I'm sure that's been dug into... probably not happening.

 

[Nanky]

Guessing CWD has always been around and we are seeing it more because we're looking harder for it.

 

[riverview]

sounds like we have some master baters in this discussion

 

[guywhofishes]

ha ha - it’s strange that there was little support for “it’s probably always been there - just better detection now” hypothesis not too long ago


https://nodakangler.com/forums/showthread.php?12350-Interesting-discussion-on-CWD&highlight=prions

 

[espringers]

Guy, your comment about animal protein ground up in feed. Not just livestock feed. But, all types of feed and trucked all over the country has merit. We first spoke of this over beer at least 10 years ago when cwd first started as a topic of conversation amongst friends in ND. "Infected" animals don't hit the human food chain easily. But, ive got no doubt they make it into feed easier.

 

[eyexer]

I agree with that totally springers

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Eye,

didn't you used to raise mink, fox or something? Did you buy feed? It would be interesting today to source where the protein parts came from back when. Bone meal used to be used a lot before Mad Cow.

So they diverted much bone meal to be used as fertilizer. Now they are finding protein prions (TSE) or Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathy can be taken up by plants.

 

[Rowdie]

I thought CWD was the result of all those tame deer behind high fences?? #$%^&>

 

[Allen]

Years ago, like when mad cow disease first hit Europe, I read a really interesting article in either Time or Newsweek on a theory of where it originated. The article laid out a theory that I thought as fascinating as it was yucky.

In England, they were commonly using bone meal to supplement cattle feeds, however since this was such a popular idea at the time, the price of bones went up high enough to where they needed to start importing bones/bone meal. India was the country that stepped up to the plate with a supply of bones. Rewind a little here and remember that in India there are religions (especially Hinduism) that hold cows in high esteem. So when your favorite bovine passes, they would place the animal in the river as their religion suggests. This created large deposits of bones in the river systems of India. Some capitalist decided that they could basically mine/dredge these bones out of the rivers and sell them to English feed makers.

The yucky part is that Hinduism also allows some humans to also be treated to a river burial. I guess even though India banned river burials at some point, there were still documented occurrences of human bones making it into the bone meal supply chain. And just by chance, one of the areas in India where they were harvesting these bones is a known hotspot for human cases of TSE. So the whole articles point was that we have just witnessed the infecting of our own food supply with TSE causing prions that originally came from the human bones of a TSE infected person in India that crossed over to bovines.

- - - Updated - - -

I wonder what the chances are that captive deer in Wyoming back in the 60s were being fed food supplements that contained bone meal?

 

[Meelosh]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuru_(disease)

It would seem any time someone or something eats their own, prions rear their ugly head.

 

[Riggen&Jiggen]

A few have mentioned earlier if they ban baiting are they also going to ban bird feeders and such. Most people would laugh about linking baiting to bird feeders. I would think it was stupid myself however my father in law lives in a small town that is located by a few draws. He has a bird feeder and when winters get tough he gets up to 10 deer in his yard. The deer actually cross a highway to get to his yard. I also am talking about a regular bird feeder not a bucket or barrel of feed. Crazy stuff I thought anyways. If anyone drives around the country side in February knows that baiting holds no candle to the wintering or yarding up behavior of deer. It is normal to see up to 100 deer wintering in one 40 acre field. Locations of these wintering areas are determined by cattle feed, crop type & placement and cover. Deer do this to survive ND winters. I would say that at least 70% of our deer population in ND hang out in close proximity to multiple deer for several weeks a year. If CWD is going to spread it will regardless of any laws that are put in place. Biggest concern for me regarding CWD is not the deer herd but how it will effect us humans. If this stuff can be found in vegetation so does this mean it is in our crops? I don't like the idea of consuming mutated proteins even if the experts claim it does not effect us.