Direct Payments to farmers/ranchers

[db-2]

In the 2016 North Central farm business records (165 farmers) 83 kept track of their living cost at an average of $98,804.
Net worth went from $1,309,779 beginning 2016 to $1,389,897 by the end of 2016. Total debt drop from $824,034 to $803,430.

22 cow/calf operators made $89.34/cow over cost in 2016 while in 2015 it was $311.06 and in 2014 it was $664.38.

In my years of working with cow/calf ranchers I did find it was consider a way of life. They loved their horse, 3/4 ton pickup of four different colors with no end gate and a back end full of bare wire, post, their dog and wife working in town. They were proud and you did not mess with their cows. Then things got good and they bought their first new pickup. In time it will be of four different colors with no end gate and a box full of bare wire and posts.
But when there is no grass there is no cows.
My parents were grain farmers who had a herd of cows for the waste land. At one time there were chickens, a couple of handful of dairy cows milked by hand, pigs, a big garden and at one time the horses did the work until a D JD came. They did what it took to survive and as time went on all the livestock left and even the cows to a bred heifer program (might had sometime to do with the kids leaving home).

As shown on here with a little rain some ranchers are looking as to how to keep the herd and survive.
In town my wife and I can tell stories to and when it got tuff there was no help with government funds. Our living needs are less than 98,000. But I will support what it takes to keep the herd on the ranch, and that is to keep the herd on the ranch.
I may hunt deer but I love my beef steaks that much. DB-2

 

[Achucker]

I may be a little late to this rodeo but I'm not against government giving farmers/ranchers direct payments...but I also think in the good years they should be willing to give some money back to THEIR government in the form of taxes. I know I have to pay my share. But maybe I should start a small business and write everything off as an expense and then when I can't make payment on all my stuff see if someone will help me pay for it. I think it was summed up. Some not all have made poor decisions and now when times are tough it is coming to bite them.

 

[Zogman]

I may be a little late to this rodeo but I'm not against government giving farmers/ranchers direct payments...but I also think in the good years they should be willing to give some money back to THEIR government in the form of taxes. I know I have to pay my share. But maybe I should start a small business and write everything off as an expense and then when I can't make payment on all my stuff see if someone will help me pay for it. I think it was summed up. Some not all have made poor decisions and now when times are tough it is coming to bite them.

Contrariety to what you say it really doesn't work that way. But if you need a partner get Prairie Ghost. He has the same beliefs.;:;rofl

 

[PrairieGhost]

Contrariety to what you say it really doesn't work that way. But if you need a partner get Prairie Ghost. He has the same beliefs.

That's false Zogman. Some things a business can write off and some things they can not. Some things can be used as a write off over five years and some over 20 years etc.

 

[gst]

That's false

Before you make that claim..........take a look i the mirror plains. ;:;banghead

 

[Achucker]

Just commenting based on what a guy with multiple "small business" told me he does to avoid handing over his money to the government. Don't mind me I do my "patriotic duty" and vote and pay taxes.

 

[db-2]

I have over the years work with people now and then on their taxes.
Had this one couple who both work in town with over 100,000 in income. Had a herd of about 10 cows. On their schedule F they wrote off everything including all gas, insurance and you name it. Every year their schedule F would showed a loss of around $50,000 to offset their non-farm income. I told them what they were doing was illegal and got my ass chewed off. You are a hobby rancher and you can not write any expenses off but need to claim all the income.
I do not know but one would think that a red flag at IRS came up and we are talking thousands of dollars of unpaid taxes and penalties over the years and maybe a little jail time.
I had another farmer who was writing off his boat as he said he used it to haul calves across the water in his pasture. But an IRS audit did change that. (For a living I do not do taxes for people)
One time I was asked why I do not buy a ATV. I told him the government will not pay for 40% of it as they do for you. And that atv was never used for any purpose related to farming. Same with a gun purchase or bullets for rodent control. Dog food or the vet for your hunting partner.
So for the salary worker it gets old and sometimes farmers do not know when to keep their month shut.
And yes my dad asked me to come home and farm. The farm just could not afford me at the time and my salary life has been good. db

 

[westwolfone]

I have over the years work with people now and then on their taxes.
Had this one couple who both work in town with over 100,000 in income. Had a herd of about 10 cows. On their schedule F they wrote off everything including all gas, insurance and you name it. Every year their schedule F would showed a loss of around $50,000 to offset their non-farm income. I told them what they were doing was illegal and got my ass chewed off. You are a hobby rancher and you can not write any expenses off but need to claim all the income.
I do not know but one would think that a red flag at IRS came up and we are talking thousands of dollars of unpaid taxes and penalties over the years and maybe a little jail time.
I had another farmer who was writing off his boat as he said he used it to haul calves across the water in his pasture. But an IRS audit did change that. (For a living I do not do taxes for people)
One time I was asked why I do not buy a ATV. I told him the government will not pay for 40% of it as they do for you. And that atv was never used for any purpose related to farming. Same with a gun purchase or bullets for rodent control. Dog food or the vet for your hunting partner.
So for the salary worker it gets old and sometimes farmers do not know when to keep their month shut.
And yes my dad asked me to come home and farm. The farm just could not afford me at the time and my salary life has been good. db

Claiming a loss every year, will have your business reclassified by the IRS as a Hobby and you will lose almost all of your deductions.

 

[db-2]

So this couple I know had already been doing it for a number of years.
When does IRS do this reclassification or ever? When they came and seen me I could not believe they had gotten away with it that long without an audit and they would not listen to me. I told them to quit and maybe IRS would never look but if they keep it up they will surely get caught. No/yes. db

 

[Zogman]

That's false Zogman. Some things a business can write off and some things they can not. Some things can be used as a write off over five years and some over 20 years etc.

You really don't read very thorough. Achucker used the word "everything". That is where he is wrong and so are you.
As stated before you need to read, reread and comprehend before you post.

 

[Achucker]

You really don't read very thorough. Achucker used the word "everything". That is where he is wrong and so are you.
As stated before you need to read, reread and comprehend before you post.

Sorry I guess my sarcasm did not come across to well.

 

[PrairieGhost]

You really don't read very thorough. Achucker used the word "everything". That is where he is wrong and so are you.
As stated before you need to read, reread and comprehend before you post.

I suppose I could search, but I don't think I said everything.

 

[Zogman]

I suppose I could search, but I don't think I said everything.

You're NOT reading again;:;banghead Achucker used the word and you agreed.

 

[PrairieGhost]

You're NOT reading again;:;banghead Achucker used the word and you agreed.

I didn't say anything like that. You posted before I said anything. Burr under your saddle today Zogman?

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Just commenting based on what a guy with multiple "small business" told me he does to avoid handing over his money to the government. Don't mind me I do my "patriotic duty" and vote and pay taxes.

Are you talking tax avoidance or tax evasion?

What better way to celebrate our tax freedom than with 9 quotes from our 39th President, Ronald Reagan:


1. “Government’s view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”


2. “We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much.”


3. “Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the democrats believe every day is April 15.”


4. “No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we’ll ever see on this earth!”


5. “Simple fairness dictates that government must not raise taxes on families struggling to pay their bills.”


6. “Government does not tax to get the money it needs; government always finds a need for the money it gets.”


7. “You can’t be for big government, big taxes, and big bureaucracy and still be for the little guy.”


8. “The American people are not undertaxed, the government in Washington is overfed.”


9. “Whenever we lower the tax rates, our entire nation is better off.”


You may now start keeping the money you’ve worked for.

 

[Kentucky Windage]

But but but all these ranchers get gratis tags and can rifle hunt deer every year so life can't be that bad right??
#$%^&> :;:stirthepot

Go back to Minnesota troll.

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I can see some assistance going to smaller farmers that do not make the big bucks and that don't have big reserves. We should not be bailing out ranchers that are millionaires that should be able to make it through the hard times. There is no one farmer or rancher too big to fail as someone else will come behind them and take over their operation. This cheap food argument doesn't hold water because a capitalist society should not need to rely on subsidies. I fell bad for those out west and I hope it will turn around next year.

Big farmers/ranchers have the opportunity to make the "big bucks." They also have the opportunity to lose their ass worse than a small farm/ranch. Everyone above farmers/ranchers get their money (seed, fert, Chem, supplies, feed, vet, etc.). They are the last ones down the line to receive payment and don't have the luxury of setting prices.

 

[tman]

Ok I didn't read through all the b.s. but do some of you guys bashing the farmers and ranchers for getting government funding realize that pretty much everything in ND revolves around agriculture if ag isnt doing good nobody will be doing good with the exception of oil and we have all seen how quick oil can come and go ag will always be around in this state so I'm all for it and no I don't farm a single acre or have any cattle but have some buddies that do and believe it or not they do pay taxes

 

[db-2]

Why I support some kind of payment.

I can only tell you the stories that were told me as a young kid from my grandfather, my parents taking the farm over in the 30,s and all kinds of land sitting idle with no sale for the land.
And sometime around then the government got involved but not sure how. But I grew up with wheat allotments and green checks issue to farmers.
Business in town have not enjoy those green checks and are left to die. Same with salary workers. Both to some extend.

When farmers talk about how hard it seems they also talk about their vacation in the caribbean and the cost of their new pickup at 60-75000.
And then these same walls go up between farmers versus salary workers. When I worked with the ranchers and called them a farmer they got upset. They stated we are ranchers not farmers as we work for a living and not for a green check like the grain farmers do.

But.
Over time we got depended on our energy from overseas instead of producing our own and we all know how that worked out.
Could one imagine what it would be like if we decided the hell with growing our own food and got it from overseas.

So I support the helping of keeping the herd, not to help buy a 60-75000 vehicle but to help in whatever way to enable the rancher to keep his herd for next year. There are ranchers on here with that little rain are hope full and doing something to keep their herd to survive. If I need to put a few bucks in by taxes to help with the hay, fine. Just do not show me the check as you talk about how tuff it is. Life in town has it ups and downs and our pants go on one leg at a time as yours do. db

 

[Fritz the Cat]

The Farm Service Agency is getting close to what the numbers are going to be. Feedlot animals and bulls don't count. What does count is saving the momma cows or walking mini factory. Cow/calf pairs.

Sounds like $18 per pair or AUM. The money is to be used to purchase feed so that a rancher can supplement them on the range. Ten cow/calf pair equals $180 per month. This is for grazing season only. Two months maybe three at best.

That $180 per month can purchase about 3 bales at 1000 lbs. Ten cows can eat more than that per month but it is meant to supplement them to just get 'em by.

The girls at the FSA Office asked me if I wanted to apply and I'm going to pass. I have plenty of grass and I planted my stubble fields to spring wheat for fall grazing. We got over an inch of rain and that wheat popped out in five days.

 

[riverview]

I don't have a a problem with farm subsidies small farmers get enough to get by. what I don't like is the farmers that work the system IE 20 different corporations under a bunch of different names to get more subsidies.