ATF Backdoor Gun Registry

[PrairieGhost]

David Kotesh was delusional, but that crowd on the outside of his compound wasn't exactly mentally stable either. At least they were not taking orders from a mentally stable leader. He had a 50 cal oh my. Government agencies are always stratagising for funding and power. ATF overstepping it's intended function could turn them into a government funded terrorist organization. Red flag laws are prime for misuse, and the illegal record keeping goes hand and glove with red flag mischief.

 

[SDMF]

David Kotesh was delusional, but that crowd on the outside of his compound wasn't exactly mentally stable either.

Marginalizing and propaganda is how the media calms the general public toward the erosion of rights. The public becomes OK with “By Whatever Means Necessary” and the erosion is even demanded by the public once the story stops being questioned.

Dissenters are denied any air-time. “Documentaries” are done further perpetuating the narrative. 25yrs down the line, it’s “Truth” and people swallow it without question.

 

[Jiffy]

^^^this^^^

 

[Traxion]

I am far from a conspiratorial kind of person, but I wonder if Aussies and our neighbors to the north might have thought similarly just 20 years ago?

I don't think they have the same constitutional rights we have solidly enshrined. With rights come responsibilities though, and t g ere are redtrictions on macine gubs and mental health as proven restrictions on those rights. I know it gets muddy with red flag laws but I'm more afraid of the wrong people writing them than I am of them banning firearms as a whole.

 

[Traxion]

Um... the "red flag laws" are the erosion.
If you don't think they have and will be used against law abiding citizens for any number of arbitrary reasons, then you're blind to the evil that lives in the hearts of most humans. Ignorance is bliss... until it costs you your freedoms.

If the wrong side writes them yes. I think the firearms groups are tye ignorant ones thinking swecan just maintain the status quo and we'll be fine. I would like to see some proactive steps or were going to have the wrong party in power, a terrible event, and we're going to lose a bunch in one fell swoop as a reaction. All because we wouldn't give an inch anytime before. Will those proactive steps prevent bad things from happening? Like only a small percentage, but perception is more important. Only 35% of Americans have guns and I'm afraid that majority when empowered will easily overcome us if we just sit on our hands.

 

[Obi-Wan]

If the wrong side writes them yes. I think the firearms groups are tye ignorant ones thinking swecan just maintain the status quo and we'll be fine. I would like to see some proactive steps or were going to have the wrong party in power, a terrible event, and we're going to lose a bunch in one fell swoop as a reaction. All because we wouldn't give an inch anytime before. Will those proactive steps prevent bad things from happening? Like only a small percentage, but perception is more important. Only 35% of Americans have guns and I'm afraid that majority when empowered will easily overcome us if we just sit on our hands.

incrementalism - giving up rights an inch at a time

 

[KDM]

The back door gun registration has nothing to do with red flag laws. It’s about the federal government illegally compiling a gun registry list. questions needs to be asked why are they so hell bent on the registry list that they would do it secretly and illegally and what do they intend to use the list for?

Do you really expect a truthful answer? WMD's in Iraq, Clot shot is totally safe, The economy is strong, The affordable care act will let you keep your health care plan, Red flag laws won't be used to take guns, No federal gun registry, The FBI won't be weaponized, The IRS is you friend, Gun bans work, blah, blah, blah. See a trend here?

 

[Kurtr]

If the wrong side writes them yes. I think the firearms groups are tye ignorant ones thinking swecan just maintain the status quo and we'll be fine. I would like to see some proactive steps or were going to have the wrong party in power, a terrible event, and we're going to lose a bunch in one fell swoop as a reaction. All because we wouldn't give an inch anytime before. Will those proactive steps prevent bad things from happening? Like only a small percentage, but perception is more important. Only 35% of Americans have guns and I'm afraid that majority when empowered will easily overcome us if we just sit on our hands.

We have all kinds of steps already and can’t enforce them properly why would more do any good. The war on drugs is a prime example. Also who are these right people I don’t know a single politician I would trust to write anything

 

[Eatsleeptrap]

The ATF. They would NEVER create a back door gun registry . They will however have one of their agents pretend to be someone else and befriend you, beg you to saw a shotgun barrel or two off until you give in and do it, then charge you criminally for it, and when you don't show up for court will shoot your son in the back and your wife in the head. Ask Randy Weavers daughter. Acquitted on every charge but the fail to appear warrant issued after the initial bogus entrapment charge. To hell with the ATF and anything they do.

 

[SDMF]

If the wrong side writes them yes. I think the firearms groups are tye ignorant ones thinking swecan just maintain the status quo and we'll be fine. I would like to see some proactive steps or were going to have the wrong party in power, a terrible event, and we're going to lose a bunch in one fell swoop as a reaction.

The proactive steps are repealing laws and regs like ditching the $200 tax stamp for NFA items. The next incremental step will be ditching the background checks and make mufflers as easy to procure and as anonymous as fish hooks or free drug needles…….

If free drug needles are socially acceptable, I think OTC mufflers are far less dangerous.

 

[grantfurness]

The ATF. They would NEVER create a back door gun registry . They will however have one of their agents pretend to be someone else and befriend you, beg you to saw a shotgun barrel or two off until you give in and do it, then charge you criminally for it, and when you don't show up for court will shoot your son in the back and your wife in the head. Ask Randy Weavers daughter. Acquitted on every charge but the fail to appear warrant issued after the initial bogus entrapment charge. To hell with the ATF and anything they do.

Truth

 

[SupressYourself]

If the wrong side writes them yes. I think the firearms groups are tye ignorant ones thinking swecan just maintain the status quo and we'll be fine. I would like to see some proactive steps or were going to have the wrong party in power, a terrible event, and we're going to lose a bunch in one fell swoop as a reaction. All because we wouldn't give an inch anytime before. Will those proactive steps prevent bad things from happening? Like only a small percentage, but perception is more important. Only 35% of Americans have guns and I'm afraid that majority when empowered will easily overcome us if we just sit on our hands.

"The wrong side"... Clearly you're not aware they're just two ends of the same shit sandwich.

Shall not be infringed...

 

[FishFinder97]

Government hates independence, I don't understand why people pick a side and think they have their best interest in mind.. Hang onto your guns and don't buy into the BS. Truth, lies, and conspiracy might seem like the lines are blurred but really the gun fight isn't about "safety". Its about control

 

[SDMF]

Government hates independence, I don't understand why people pick a side and think they have their best interest in mind.. Hang onto your guns and don't buy into the BS. Truth, lies, and conspiracy might seem like the lines are blurred but really the gun fight isn't about "safety". Its about control

“If it saves just 1 child” is a line the left LOVES to use regarding gun laws. It’s been their “BATTLE CRY” since GCA ‘86.

Pity they can’t apply that line to the 300K + kids unaccounted for during the illegal mass migration, or the kids that have been killed by people who aren’t here legally.

 

[PrairieGhost]

“If it saves just 1 child” is a line the left LOVES to use regarding gun laws. It’s been their “BATTLE CRY” since GCA ‘86.

Pity they can’t apply that line to the 300K + kids unaccounted for during the illegal mass migration, or the kids that have been killed by people who aren’t here legally.

If it saves just 100 children --- ya right as of the left death cult cares about lives. They love abortion and anyone over 65 is in their blood lust sights too.

 

[ORCUS DEMENS]

As always the government is the enemy. You voted these people into office. You can always vote them out, move to another country, etc.etc.etc.
Red Flag laws are not a someone said he is bad take his guns away and they do.
https://www.hpso.com/Resources/Legal-and-Ethical-Issues/Understanding-red-flag-gun-laws
This is what the law is trying to prevent
https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-domestic-violence-special-report
You can knee jerk and cry encroachment on gun rights. Facts are gun rights have expanded since the 1960's.
https://govfacts.org/rights-freedom...-court-cases-transformed-americas-gun-rights/

Let's reverse this a second, I seek answers to how members of this site would stop the insanity of mass shootings, familial violence, workplace shootings, etc..?
A good guy with a gun argument doesn't stand up to facts.
https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/midwest/how-often-does-a-good-guy-with-a-gun-end-an-attack/
https://rockinst.org/gun-violence/mass-shooting-factsheet/
Now go down the basement, dig into that box of things you intended to throw away and put your thinking cap back on. Forget political rhetoric, come up with a solution before the country collectively kills itself.

 

[SDMF]

Red Flag laws are not a someone said he is bad take his guns away and they do.

Much of whether that would hold to be true or not has to do with an individual judge’s legal philosophy. You see both directions some are “letter of the law”, some are “activist”.

If each Red Flag event were adjudged by a 5-7 judge panel with jail (1st and mandatory) and fines (after you’re released from jail) given to defendants and their Atty if the “Red Flagging” is found to be frivolous. Maybe I could get on board. There must be VERY stiff penalties for unwarranted and/or frivolous “flagging”.

You can knee jerk and cry encroachment on gun rights. Facts are gun rights have expanded since the 1960's.

GCA ‘68 ended the ability to mail order guns and required the completion and retention of 4473 forms. GCA ‘86 defacto banned full-auto by disallowing the general public from owning any full-auto produced after 1986. Clinton ended the import of “military arms” guns and ammo from a bunch of countries, we couldn’t even bring back our own arms we’d lent, sold, or given to other countries and sell them back to taxpayers through the CMP even though arms of the same make/model were or had been recently available through CMP and were also available as new production from any gun shop in the US. M1A 308’s stick in my mind as one of the contended makes/models we weren’t able to re-import from somewhere in Europe in the late 90’s. Spain or Portugal maybe? Someone will probably remember the details better than I.

Let's reverse this a second, I seek answers to how members of this site would stop the insanity of mass shootings, familial violence, workplace shootings, etc..?
A good guy with a gun argument doesn't stand up to facts.

Now go down the basement, dig into that box of things you intended to throw away and put your thinking cap back on. Forget political rhetoric, come up with a solution before the country collectively kills itself.

If it were just my decision, long-term in-patient mental health facilities would be my 1st step.

Qualified immunity from civil suits for “Good Samaritans” would be my 2nd. No reason it should cost a person as much as a new house in legal fees to save people in grave danger.

Teach a more comprehensive section of civics classes which make it clear to students, in a Representative Republic, The Gov’t is responsible to keep citizens safe from dangers OUTSIDE our boarders. A citizen is responsible for their own safety inside our borders.

See how those 3 changes work and GO SLOW if more change is needed.