No licenses for non landowners

[Enslow]

Life is too short to worry about all this shit anymore. Just realize things will continuously get effed up and that these are still the good old days.

 

[KDM]

I have a hard time understanding the G&F. When I brought up mandatory big game checks to at least get that bunch of data, they seemed really apprehensive. They cited it being cost prohibitive but it seemed like they had no interest in it to begin with. I know you don't particularly value harvest info as much KDM, but to me it was an insight into their train of thought. Or maybe I'm overthinking it and they just don't want the extra cost.

The real ironic thing to me is, I've brought up raising hunting license/tag prices to pay for more conservation/access/data collection but most folks just said it wouldn't work/didn't want to pay for it.

Welcome to the paradigm Ghost. The public cries for more land access, but doesn't want to pay for it. In the same way, the G&F budgets for aerial surveys for white tails, but then doesn't fly them. What happens to the money that was supposed to pay for a white tail aerial survey when they don't fly it??

As far as the game check, It's not that I'm against big game checks Ghost, that data is very important. It's the cost benefit ratio of doing so that I don't agree with. IMO, you get more bang for your buck by spending those dollars and manpower in another way. For instance: Assuming completed honesty from all hunters, game checks only take into account hunter caused mortality. That's a fairly limited data set. If you take that same person and apply them to recording surveillance data at set locations throughout that hunting unit, you will take into account the mortality from hunting, vehicles, predators, winter, disease, etc. etc. etc....AND population recruitment from fawn births which will provide you with an overall population estimate for that area from which to calculate tag numbers for the following year. No need to hope everyone will be honest. Just the researcher (Their Honesty) and the numbers. Much less room for error and fewer suspects should there be error.

 

[lunkerslayer]

Welcome to the paradigm Ghost. The public cries for more land access, but doesn't want to pay for it. In the same way, the G&F budgets for aerial surveys for white tails, but then doesn't fly them. What happens to the money that was supposed to pay for a white tail aerial survey when they don't fly it??

As far as the game check, It's not that I'm against big game checks Ghost, that data is very important. It's the cost benefit ratio of doing so that I don't agree with. IMO, you get more bang for your buck by spending those dollars and manpower in another way. For instance: Assuming completed honesty from all hunters, game checks only take into account hunter caused mortality. That's a fairly limited data set. If you take that same person and apply them to recording surveillance data at set locations throughout that hunting unit, you will take into account the mortality from hunting, vehicles, predators, winter, disease, etc. etc. etc....AND population recruitment from fawn births which will provide you with an overall population estimate for that area from which to calculate tag numbers for the following year. No need to hope everyone will be honest. Just the researcher (Their Honesty) and the numbers. Much less room for error and fewer suspects should there be error.

Hopefully with the help of UAV we can get solid numbers good post KDM who is in charge of conducting surveys, I like to express my need for change, I did a little thing like not allowing guides into WPA FWR areas it felt good even if it didn't work at least I can say I tried to do something positive.

 

[KDM]

Mr. Jeb Williams is in charge of Big Game for the NDGF.

 

[gst]

. I just don't think that anyone should be offered an absolute opportunity based on assets. .

Out of curiousity what do you think of the G&F auctioning off a "absolute opportunity" to shoot a bighorn sheep here to someone based on their "assets"?

 

[Putz ND]

The point I was trying to make was an "absolute" opportunity. Success, wealth, assets will inevitably generate some opportunity - and it should. Thats the American model - right?! In regards to the specific sheep example, there typically have been "general draw" tags available and we (as the general public) still have some opportunity.

 

[gst]

Mr. Putz, the winner of the auction indeed has an "absolute opportunity" do they not?

There are other "general draw" tags in other units that the public has an opportunity for in the deer lottery as well is there not?

It seems some on here would like to see a Bernie Sanders type approach to hunting............

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I have no problem with the G&F auctioning off a sheep tag and using the proceeds to better manage sheep. There is a value that comes back to us sportsmen as a result of that "absolute opportunity" in more funding to better manage these populations to provide more opportunity.

In in the same manner, when land owners are allowed a $20 value gratis tag, there is a value that comes back to the sportsmen in increased deer numbers and opportunity for those that are willing to put the effort in and not just expect access or opportunity to be given.

the G&F has no idea how many deer are in each unit. I have offered many times to have biologist come out and count deer as they came into our hay yard adn not once was the offer taken up. Even when wardens were sitting right in my yard, they seemed not to have the time to park their pickup for a couple hours, have a cup of coffee and count deer. That combined with an ariel survey (cause if they are in my hay yard there damn well is enough snow cover) to find other congregations to count (most of which are in ranchers yards in these hard winters) would give a pretty good idea of deer/square mile.

But hey I am not a "trained" biologist so what the hell would I know. But then again I did know that 2 feet of snow that closed most roads was the cause of lower hunter success rate survey numbers than was lower deer numbers like Randy Kriel tried claiming a few years back as part of their "formula" to determine the next years tags.........

 

[Enslow]

Mr. Jeb Williams is in charge of Big Game for the NDGF.

Jeb toles the party line down at the NDGF haha. Ask me how i know...

 

[Putz ND]

Yes, they undoubtedly do have absolute opportunity - I agree 100%

Bernie ??? Ouch - I'm about as conservative as they come. Why go to a below the belt swing right away?

I'm not the greatest communicator so its probably my fault that you're missing the point - I'm fine with a land owner preference, but to eliminate ALL tags available to non-land owners in a certain zone is where it crosses the line. Whitetails are a "right-of-passage" species where basic hunting skills are learned, honed, and passed on. Many of us had our first big-game experiences afield chasing whitetails, right?! We didn't have our own land growing up, but at least we had a CHANCE at a tag. Without this simple opportunity, there is a good chance that the hunting tradition may have never been passed on.

I love to hunt and believe that if the tradition is to continue on, we NEED to recruit the next generation. I've lived in a few metropolitan areas, and can assure you that the ANTIs love to see a reduction in opportunity.

On another note, comparing the benefits of gratis tag revenue to sheep tag auction revenue is quite a stretch. You're assuming that if the gratis tags weren't issued, that there would be a loss of cash? I'm pretty sure those tags would have still been sold in the general lottery and revenue would be nearly identical. We owe a lot to private landowners - but this is a little tough to swallow. Thanks to GST for buying your gratis so we have an extra $20 for conservation.

 

[Enslow]

The best part is that 2c was one of the units that had the early doe rifle season and now you cant draw a tag unless you own land. The NDGF really effed that unit up. I was up there in the hayday and saw the slaughter. People with 10 plus doe tags hammering every doe that moved. It literally sounded like a warzone on the weekends. Now the deer arent coming back in that massive cattail unit.. Hmm i wonder why.. Coyotes eating the fawns perhaps? This really has nothing to do with the gratis tags and everything to do with the failure of the NDGF to properly manage the unit.

 

[arrowdem]

I sincerely doubt you will ever get private land opened up to non land owners to hunt and rightfully so. I'm not gonna let someone just take my pick up whenever they need or crash on my couch at my house cause they don't want to get a hotel. That just doesn't make sense. And landowner tags.... KDM hit the nail on that one. If I had the 160 acres to put in for a gratis tag. Damn right I would. Who wouldn't? I am however fortunate enough that my brother married into 160 acres of prime river bottom ground and his wife gets a gratis tag every year. Does she fill it every year? No. She and the rest of us want her to get on a mature buck as we try practice QDM. ya not getting a tag for years in a row sucks but I don't complain about it. Instead I try my luck at different opportunities. If you read my thread about being sick of not getting drawn. Last year got turned down for a 2C buck tag so I went to an area that had extra doe tags. Loaded up a few buddies ended up getting on some private land from a very giving land owner. Shot our does shot some grouse shot some roosters and drank some beer and its a hunt I'll always have fond memories of. Now for this year seeing what my chances are again I'm looking to try my luck at a public land mule deer hunt. Will I be successful. Damn right I will be doesn't mean I'll kill anything but I'll be out in new country trying my hardest to with a couple of good friends. One thing I can't understand is when I guy like me wants to venture out of my home area to and unit that had tags and am looking for advice on what kind of public land is out there and if it's good ground to hold deer you are met with such resistance? (The thread I have started has been very helpful with no negative Nancy's so far so thank you guys for that) the point I'm trying to get across is there are opportunities out there in ND to go out and kill a deer. No your chances of getting on an amazing chunk of land like the private land owners has isn't always going to happen. But the opportunity to get a tag and at least have a chance is there for the most part. I do think that NDGF does have a lot of things that they can work on like getting the actual numbers on the herd correct and actually trying to get a count. But I'm not the guy like KDM who actually voiced his concerns so I don't really have a right to complain about it either.


anyway that's my .02 and now it's past my bed time and in going to fall asleep watching the Drury's hammer giant whitetails on land I can only hope one day I have an opportunity to hunt.

 

[deleted member]

hey putz, you didn't communicate poorly. the rest of us understood it clearly. but, you said something that could've been construed as possibly not 100% pro land owner. which automatically ellicits a response from him. its simply unavoidable. so, no need to apologize for your communication skills. they are perfectly fine.

 

[Enslow]

Oh goodness the drurys... Hunting shows, 70k rangers, snobears, guided big money hunts... this isnt what it is about.

 

[deleted member]

oh... and lunker... not so sure if you are serious about the idea of somehow opening private land to public hunting. but, that's simply going to far. and this constant pitting of land owners vs. non landowners isn't helping the access situation one bit. keep it up and we will end up like minnesota or south dakota and everything will be considered off limits without written permission. we still have it pretty good in north dakota. lets not try fuck it up.

 

[gst]

Yes, they undoubtedly do have absolute opportunity - I agree 100%

Bernie ??? Ouch - I'm about as conservative as they come. Why go to a below the belt swing right away? If that is below the belt, you might want to get off the internet...........

I'm not the greatest communicator so its probably my fault that you're missing the point - I'm fine with a land owner preference, but to eliminate ALL tags available to non-land owners in a certain zone is where it crosses the line. Whitetails are a "right-of-passage" species where basic hunting skills are learned, honed, and passed on. Many of us had our first big-game experiences afield chasing whitetails, right?! We didn't have our own land growing up, but at least we had a CHANCE at a tag. Without this simple opportunity, there is a good chance that the hunting tradition may have never been passed on.Perhaps I am mistaken but if your true concern is "for the children" is there not a state wide access youth hunting season where bucks can be taken anywhere? And before that is there not a doe only season for youth?

I love to hunt and believe that if the tradition is to continue on, we NEED to recruit the next generation. I've lived in a few metropolitan areas, and can assure you that the ANTIs love to see a reduction in opportunity.

And that is what you will end up with if you start pushing agendas such as some have suggested here. Hell even espringers tells you that.

On another note, comparing the benefits of gratis tag revenue to sheep tag auction revenue is quite a stretch. You're assuming that if the gratis tags weren't issued, that there would be a loss of cash? I'm pretty sure those tags would have still been sold in the general lottery and revenue would be nearly identical. We owe a lot to private landowners - but this is a little tough to swallow. Thanks to GST for buying your gratis so we have an extra $20 for conservation.

You seemed to have missed what I said, I made no reference to a "revenues" based amount of benefit, only a value big difference. And you seem not to understand the gratis system. If I am not mistaken, there is no charge for the gratis tag so the "value" the land owner receives for providing habitat and feed and 340 some days of living for these deer most are only worried about for a couple weekends is a whopping $20. And the gratis tag actually "generates" no revenues.

Espringers, what a whiney little bastard you have become.

 

[Putz ND]

Not sure a rational conversation is in the cards here - I think I can hear fishingbuddy calling someone home

 

[SDMF]

If I am not mistaken, there is no charge for the gratis tag so the "value" the land owner receives for providing habitat and feed and 340 some days of living for these deer most are only worried about for a couple weekends is a whopping $20.

It's $30 Mr. Knowitall.

 

[Enslow]

GST is it ok for us peasants to view "your" personally fed and cared for wild deer during those 340 days?

 

[gst]

Mr Putz, perhaps if you took a little time to learn a bit before pulling out the "for the children" argument one could have a "rational" conversation here.

ND provides a guaranteed license for our youth for turkey, waterfowl, pheasant and deer. If the youth does not fill his deer during the state wide youth season then they can use that license during the regular season as well.

[h=3]Youth Deer Season for Residents Ages 14 and 15[/h] I did not harvest a deer with my youth season license. Can I hunt the regular deer gun season with this license? Yes, but you are subject to the restrictions listed on the license.
Index
I was unsuccessful in filling my mule deer buck license in a restricted unit during the youth season. Can I hunt the remainder of the state during the regular gun season? No. You are restricted to the same unit as during the youth season.
Index
When is the earliest my son/daughter can apply for a youth season license?
The calendar year when he/she turns age 14.
Index
My son/daughter turns 14 after the youth season opens but before the end of the calendar year. Is he/she eligible to apply for and hunt in the youth season? Yes, this was a recent change by the state legislature.
[h=3]Antlerless White-Tailed Deer Season for Resident Youth Ages 12 and 13[/h] In 2009, North Dakota’s legislature lowered the minimum age for hunting deer with a firearm (centerfire rifle, handgun or muzzleloader) from 14 to 12.
However, there are restrictions on when and what 12- and 13-year-olds could hunt.
Index
What license is available for a 12- or 13-year-old?
One antlerless whitetail license, valid statewide.
Index
My son/daughter turns 12 this year but after the youth season is over. Is he/she eligible to apply for and receive an antlerless white-tailed deer license? Yes, a recent change by the state legislature allows youth age 11 who turn age 12 during the same year as the respective big game season to receive a license.
Index
When can 12- and 13-year-olds hunt deer (antlerless whitetail) with a firearm?
Only during the youth deer season.
Index
How do I apply?
Applications are available in early May along with other deer license applications.
Index
Is the license my 12- or 13-year-old receives considered a youth season license?
No. A youth season license is defined as a deer gun license for 14- or 15-year-old first-time deer hunters that is valid statewide for any deer, with the exception of antlered mule deer (issued by lottery) in select southwest units.
Index
If my 12- or 13-year-old receives an antlerless whitetail license, will he/she remain eligible for a youth season license at age 14?
Yes, 14- or 15-year-olds are still eligible for a once-in-a-lifetime statewide any-deer license if they received an antlerless whitetail license when they were 12 and/or 13.
Index



Many land owners I know, myself included, have helped a number of kids get their first deer and introduced them to hunting big game . So here in ND it is not about the "children" getting a tag....so what is it really about?

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GST is it ok if us lowly peasants to view "your" personally fed and cared for wild deer during those 340 days?

Hell come feed them, take them home, love them and pet them and name them George if you wish enslow.

Tell you what, I have to go fix a couple more hot wires tommorow the deer broke to turn some cows out in the corn I left standing to keep the deer out of my hay yard this winter. Should only take 3 or 4 hours ifthey aren;t froze in the ice too bad. Why don;t you come help there and you can watch the deer to your little hearts content.

the deer seem to be coming thru the winter quite well with the corn, sunflowers and barley regrowth so there should be quite a few around to hunt next fall when they disperse back to where they came from this spring.

How are the deer looking that you have provided food sources for this winter enslow ?

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It's $30 Mr. Knowitall.

It has been three years since I sent in for a general draw license so I forgot they increased the rates. But now I will feel much better fixing fence the deer broke tommorow so thank you.

 

[Enslow]

This is the warmest winter i have ever seen. The deer are doing very well. If you think they need your help maybe you need help... Just sayin...