2016 Lake Sakakawea Land Transfer

gst

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How much should they have to give up for you to consider them not greedy? 1% and they should be happy to get it?
Your "no sale" provision would never happen. The states have said they couldn't afford the burden and would have to sell. Landowner groups would certainly lobby for it.

Heres the deal g, I support these lands being multiple use. Ranching, forestry etc. for a fair market price of rent. I don't want anymore refuges or national park that limit use.

I get a day because they are federal lands that my tax dollars support.

Ummmm I think I asked you how much is enough first.:)
Feel the Bern on those damned 1%ers...........

If you would, go back and actually answer those questions I posed.

Is 65% not enough?

Because that is what is "public" land in Idaho and yet people/orgs are complaining because they have sold any amount so apparently 65% is not "enough".

Some of these groups will notbe happy or quit until entire states

Some states have shown they could manage these lands just fine Some do not want to, no state should be forced to either way.

Heres the deal, if these NGOs had not pushed to end these multiple use agreements that you and many others support, this would not be an issue. (outside of the Federal govt inability to manage ANYTHING efficiently and effectively.)

But they have and people have sat back and allowed it to happen. This quote of Tim's is spot on, this President has done more to tear apart cooperative agreements and force agendas pushed by these environmental groups more than any other.

"Basically the public has been ignorned, the facts have been ignored and the master manual is being ignored. You can bet your last dollar this presidency wants to make a splash and given the regime's history they don't give a damn what the people have to say."


So how do you get those multiple use agreements put back in place? How do you return 52 ranchers to the lands in one Nevada county they were pushed off of?

How do you regain control over agencies like the Corp and the BLM and EPA ect.....

It was shown in the first post in this thread how the Corp really doesn't listen to anyone that is elected and accountable to "we the people".

Anyways, no need to derail this thread outside of it's intended subject, there are a couple other threads if you care to continue this courteous dialogue.
 


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If any of you are wondering, our three congressman support the transfer as far as I can tell. Heidi because it will go to her favorite constituents and the republicans because they don't want the feds to have it.
 

Tim Sandstrom

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Updating this thread as the public is getting hammered at Oahe and Sakakawea. Here's my latest asking how the 30,000 acres of vegetative management land differs from wildlife management lands.

Email sent to Larry Janis from the ACOE.

From Tim to Larry:

Hi Larry and others:


Larry, thank you for the response. I have a few follow up comments/questions.


1. Do project purposes not equate into "current acquisition criteria?" Can you or someone please send me the Appendix E of Engineering Regulation 1130-2-540?


2. Attached is a PDF. It is from the 2007 Master Plan/EA study for the Garrison Project. I want you to focus on Management Unit (MU) 69 and 71 of the map. Notice the tan color is wildlife management. Also notice green is vegetation management. Below is text taken from the Master Plan separated by alphabetical bullets to help organize questions and answers to follow:


a. On page 7-107 discussing recreation activities for vegetative management MU 069 it is noted hunting as a primary recreation activity. Hiking, camping, photography and off-road vehicle use are listed as other common recreational activities. Resource objectives on pages 7-108 thru 7-109 include (but not limited to) balance wild land values and public uses, promote access that minimizes adverse impacts on vegetation and wildlife, maintain quality in concert with recreation, fish and wildlife, develop and manage levels of recreation activities, promote ecological integrity by controlling noxious weeds and maintain and/or improve wildlife habitat. These are all items consistent with 1.7 of the Master Plan project-wide resource objectives specifically including manage habitat for threatened and endangered species and to support diversity of fish and wildlife species. How does this compare to MU 71 land classification of wildlife management? Let’s compare directly below...


b. On page 7-127 discussing recreation activities for wildlife management MU 071 it is noted hunting is a primary recreation activity followed by boating and fishing. On pages 7-127 thru 7-128 resource objectives are (but not limited to) balance wild land values and public uses, promote access that minimizes adverse impacts on vegetation and wildlife, maintain quality in concert with recreation, fish and wildlife, develop and manage levels of recreation activities, promote ecological integrity by controlling noxious weeds and maintain and/or improve wildlife habitat. Again, these items are consistent with 1.7 Master Plan project-wide resource objectives. So how do MU 069 and MU 071 differ from one another?


c. Under 1.4.6 Fish and Wildlife of the Master Manual it specifically states vegetation management is a classified area developed and managed to benefit wildlife. Furthermore, "remaining project lands" are also managed to enhance and benefit wildlife species. Since wildlife management is a project purpose how does the ACOE decide vegetation management lands are no longer needed?


d. Does the ACOE not see erosion as an issue? Per 1.4.8 Water Quality is directly dependent upon silt control, soil-erosion prevention, pollution abatement to provide adequate and safe municipal water, improved clarity of water for recreation, improved clarity of water for fish and wildlife, stock watering and other water supply use. Would you agree lands classified as vegetative management are crucial to meeting project needs?


e. In section 2.1.3 Project Lands recreation activities include (but are not limited to) hunting, camping, picnicking, hiking, mountain biking, horseback riding, bird watching, wildlife observation, interpretive activities, photography, winter sports and sightseeing. Furthermore, Recreation.gov highlights recreation activities as autotouring, biking, boating, camping, climbing, educational programs, fish hatcheries, fishing, hiking, historic/cultural sites, horseback riding, hunting, lodging, museum/visitor, off-highway vehicle access, recreational vehicles, water sports, wildlife viewing and winter sports. Would you agree these activities take place on all project lands and specifically vegetative management lands?

f. Section 2.11.2 states "wildlife-associated recreation activities are important at the Lake Sakakawea project and in North Dakota." In section 2.11.3 the Master Plan further quotes hunting of big game using firearms or archery is an important fall recreation activity on project lands. The ACOE agrees hunting activity follows state trends of increasing each year and at the time of the master plan & EA the ACOE quotes North Dakota is the fifth-highest among 50 states in regard to hunting participation. Would you agree the vegetative management lands as directed by the Master Plan are bound to project purposes of recreation and wildlife?


g. In section 5.3.5.1 multiple resource management notes lands in vegetation management are permitted for a variety of purposes including erosion control, retention and improvement of scenic qualities and wildlife management. Would you agree vegetative lands are considered multi-purpose lands that again meet project purposes?


h. Recreation is a key project purpose. Recreation is dynamic and not static meaning recreation activities can and must grow to meet the need. Master Plans are revisited to better classify lands and if transferred they will forever be removed from availability. Many vegetative management lands have the same potential recreation value (and in some cases more value) as any other acre within the project. If vegetative management lands are removed from the project, would you agree removing vegetative lands removes the ability to provide additional recreation opportunity?


To borrow words and sentences from the conclusion section of the Master Plan, the vegetative management activities are very important in all areas of the project, regardless of their land classification. They are multiple resource management lands that meet many if not every single project purpose as directed by the Pick Sloan Act. Vegetative management areas are monitored and grazing activities regulated to prevent overgrazing important for the quality of vegetation for wildlife habitat. Finally, collaborate efforts cited in section 8-1 and 8-2 highlight wildlife management are codependent upon vegetative management areas.


With the above, I find it impossible and unimaginable to distinguish excess versus no longer needed nor can I understand wildlife management areas separate from vegetative management areas. I used MU 069 and MU 071 as example because I grew up there. I've stood at the line separating the two MUs looking at identical terrain, habitat and recreation offering. Like excess versus no longer needed the ACOE is trying to justify a distinction without difference.


I look forward to your response on how vegetative management lands can be seen as no longer needed when they are bound in so many ways to the multi project purposes of recreation, fish and wildlife, water quality, municipal and industrial water supply, irrigation, navigation, hydropower and flood control.


Best Regards,


Tim Sandstrom

----------------

I am waiting response to my latest email.
 

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Thank you for staying diligent Tim. I have emailed some media outlets asking why this hasn't been covered with no response. This stinks like hell.
 


Tim Sandstrom

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While you guys worry about a FBO chat room and put up pages and pages of "stuff" within it there are real issues to address. I hope many of you attend and voice your concerns.

Reminder: Tribal Land Transfer Meetings June 22 in Bismarck, June 23 in New Town. 30,000 acres impacted -- it's important to know more.


Wednesday, June 22 – Bismarck, North Dakota Heritage Center
Russell Reid Auditorium, 612 East Boulevard Ave.

Thursday, June 23 – New Town
4 Bears Casino Ballroom, 202 Frontage Rd.


At each location, the public can visit one-on-one with agency officials from 5 p.m. to 6:30 p.m. to learn about the decision, hear about the proposed implementation and ask questions. A formal presentation will be made on the MOA, Final Effects Report and proposed implementation starting at 6:30 p.m. After the presentation Corps and BIA officials will be available to answer questions.
 

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