American Prairie Preserve

[fnznfwl]

What the hell is that supposed to mean. At least I have the balls to put where I live.

It takes balls to say you are from Napoleon?

 

[Fritz the Cat]

I'm not saying cattle can't get brucellosis from Buffalo, I'm just saying there's no cases of it ever happening in Montana. Our local elk herd was 400% over objective for a while and you never heard any concerns about brucellosis. Then we bring some buffalo in that have all been tested to be brucellosis free and all of the sudden some of the local ranchers think it's a huge threat.

The brucellosis test is very very accurate. I agree, once they have been captured and monitored for a period of time in a facility they should be cleared. 63 head are easy to monitor. I believe the goal is tens of thousands. I wouldn't want them for a neighbor.

FYI elk and buffalo never had brucellosis until it was transmitted by cattle.​

That is true. And white man also brought smallpox. Smallpox has been eradicated from the planet. Yellowstone is "the reservoir" for brucellosis.


I'm sure they are still those who want to believe this is going to become a hunting utopia. The American Prairie Reserve is creating a total ecosystem. If you think you will be shooting prairie dogs you won't be. Maybe get a tag to shoot a buffalo to keep the herd in check. Well.........here ya go:

http://www.liveauctionworld.com/5-D...n-Reservation-North-Central-Montana_i11868308

Edit: Found a better more recent article.

http://ypradio.org/post/american-prairie-reserve-host-bison-hunt-2018#stream/0​

 

[PrairieGhost]

Then we bring some buffalo in that have all been tested to be brucellosis free and all of the sudden some of the local ranchers think it's a huge threat.

They think they are automatically entitled and anyone with bison must be new and competition. They are conservative except for agriculture. They are capitalists except for agriculture. They like competition except for agriculture. Remember the old book in 1979 called "looking out for number one"? That's it. Do unto others before they do it unto you. Hypocrisy????? You be the judge.

They want non resident hunters too, but they don't want non resident competition.

We might agree with them if they didn't lease to non residents and deny their neighbor kid access. What goes around comes around. That's not my bad attitude, that's reality.

 

[gst]

It is really sad reading this thread. I live next to the APR and went hunting on their land several times this fall. Some of you people don't have a clue.

Some people can stick their head in the sand right in the desert and not know their head is in sand. From and earlier post.........

Tell us again Big sky who on their many person boards of directors and funding sources support hunting?


"The origin of the money behind the American Prairie Foundation is adding to ranchers' resentment. Donations are coming mostly from wealthy individuals, many of them in the Silicon Valley or on Wall Street. As in such places as Jackson Hole and Aspen, the rich are demonstrating a striking capacity to change land use in the West.
For the wealthy, the Northern Plains and their once-great herds of buffalo are a seductive and iconic cause.
"This is an easy sell," said Diana Beattie, a Manhattan interior designer who summers in Montana and is a well-connected fundraiser among Fifth Avenue's philanthropic elite. "Since the Al Gore movie, I think caring about nature and preserving its purity is on everybody's plate."
Larry Linden, who lives in Manhattan and is a retired general partner at Goldman Sachs, has pledged about $500,000. He compares the restoration of the Northern Plains to the refurbishment of the Statue of Liberty.
"There are lot of folks in New York who spend a lot of time in the West, and this appeals to them," he said. "This is not the heavy hand of the government. Over time, ranch families will find it in their interest to sell"

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I'm a technician on a crude oil pipeline. Yes, it is my first post on here. I was a member of Fishing Buddy for years but since that site is dead I decided to make the move over here.

I'm not saying cattle can't get brucellosis from Buffalo, I'm just saying there's no cases of it ever happening in Montana. Our local elk herd was 400% over objective for a while and you never heard any concerns about brucellosis. Then we bring some buffalo in that have all been tested to be brucellosis free and all of the sudden some of the local ranchers think it's a huge threat. FYI elk and buffalo never had brucellosis until it was transmitted by cattle.

Much like CWD the original causation of brucellosis is not fully understood. That is a claim most often accompanied by the word "probably"......

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why dont they allow predator hunting on that land does not seem like sound management at all

Becasue it is part of the long term goal of no human involvement in the management of these lands...........

 

[Bacon]

It takes balls to say you are from Napoleon?

Are you trying to be an asshole or does it just come naturally?

 

[ndlongshot]

So is Jerry Doan evil because he sits on the board for the Natural Resources Trust? Asking for a friend...........

Are you willing to throw him under the bus? Just curious.

 

[gst]

They think they are automatically entitled and anyone with bison must be new and competition. They are conservative except for agriculture. They are capitalists except for agriculture. They like competition except for agriculture. Remember the old book in 1979 called "looking out for number one"? That's it. Do unto others before they do it unto you. Hypocrisy????? You be the judge.

They want non resident hunters too, but they don't want non resident competition.

We might agree with them if they didn't lease to non residents and deny their neighbor kid access. What goes around comes around. That's not my bad attitude, that's reality.

;:;banghead

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So is Jerry Doan evil because he sits on the board for the Natural Resources Trust? Asking for a friend...........

Are you willing to throw him under the bus? Just curious.

I know Jerry, he has been a strong voice sharing how he does better management of his grasslands. He and his son also guide hunters on their lands so maybe you should ask plainsman that same question.

http://nwiowaoutdoors.com/2017/01/06/fuzzy-bucks/

My answer is simply it depends on if he is a rubber stamp supporting their agendas or a voice of reason trying to impact that agenda to better suit it for those that make their living from these lands consideration. My knowledge of Jerrys views are it is the later so no I do not "throw him under the bus"

Now if he had anything to do with the state HSUS org. or took monies from them........

 

[ndlongshot]

I'm honestly curious. I clicked the link Fritz put up and saw his profile first. He was appointed by the Governor of ND, Dalrymple no less. So painting him and the organization as some radical group is hard to believe, but thats just me.

He specifically called out people in the organization, but not the ranchers who are also involved. Those kind of tactics raise the warning flag to me. Throw mud and see what sticks kind of attitude.

 

[gst]

Do you even know Jerry Doan?

Most of these organizations any more (HSUS included) are actively seeking and bringing in ranchers/farmers to their group to hold up so they can claim "see ag supports us".

Ranching and ag orgs are not fools and they try to place folks on these boards that will slow the tide and speak out against many of the agendas these orgs embrace. They also learn abit of inside information as to what to expect down the road from these orgs.

These orgs like NRT and others do not tell the public the comments those ranchers/ag folk share during the board meetings, they only use them as publicity much like the APP trots out someone at town hall meetings that "grew up hunting" to ease hunters fears about their true ideals and agendas behind those that fund and control.

 

[ndlongshot]

No. I dont know him. But I want to know your opinion whether you think he's a fool for sitting on this board?

Is he misguided? Why wasn't his name mentioned when talking about other folks on the board. Is he just a puppet? As the other ranchers are? Since they are only there for image..............Most ranchers I know wouldnt waste time being a puppet.

Would you ever serve on this board? To help communicate and find common ground? Seems worthy of any community minded person and he should be commended. We should all strive to understand and work together on issues important to us and our businesses. Or would it only be for image? And if so, why is Mr Doan doing this? For image? Or because he cares about conservation.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

ndlongshot,

Yes, the gov appointed Jerry Doan to the ND Natural Resources Trust. Stakeholders. Checks and balances.

Would you now like to talk about the fellow at the bottom of that page? Dave Dittloff???????????????

He specifically called out people in the organization, but not the ranchers who are also involved. Those kind of tactics raise the warning flag to me. Throw mud and see what sticks kind of attitude.​

Jerry Doan wasn't on the Board at the time. I cannot think of the old timer who was. Yes, I call people out. Keith Trego at NDNRT involved the agency in the 5% oil revenue rip off ballot measure con. He was at the Capitol working our legislators to support it. Of course it all backfired and they lost 80/20. That's not mud, it's fact.

 

[BBQBluesMan]

Do you even know Jerry Doan?

Most of these organizations any more (HSUS included) are actively seeking and bringing in ranchers/farmers to their group to hold up so they can claim "see ag supports us".

Ranching and ag orgs are not fools and they try to place folks on these boards that will slow the tide and speak out against many of the agendas these orgs embrace. They also learn abit of inside information as to what to expect down the road from these orgs.

These orgs like NRT and others do not tell the public the comments those ranchers/ag folk share during the board meetings, they only use them as publicity much like the APP trots out someone at town hall meetings that "grew up hunting" to ease hunters fears about their true ideals and agendas behind those that fund and control.

Speaking of orgs and their agendas and what to expect down the road…. if it were up to North Dakota Farm Bureau and others there would be no public land as they support the sale of public land to the private sector, all wetlands would be drained, non-residents would have no hunting restrictions in ND, existing and future wildlife and conservation easements would be bought out/erased/outlawed, state school land be sold in its entirety to active ag producers, every tillable acre should have drain tile, no support for a CRP type program, the list goes on. They want the cake and to eat it too. And they want OUR public lands. SMH

https://www.ndfb.org/image/cache/2017_NDFB_Policy_Book.pdf
http://ndfu.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/2017-Program-of-Policy-and-Action.pdf


We oppose limiting the number of out-of-state hunters and/or trappers or any difference in season limitations between resident and non-resident hunters.---ID#: 2040/16

We oppose any tax revenue from oil or gas going to conservation groups and using any money from the outdoor heritage fund to pay for a state funded conservation reserve program replacement or substitute.---ID#: 2055/16

We support efforts to control the black bird and Canada goose population to the point where it is no longer an economic problem for agriculture.---ID#: 2064/16

We support a no net gain of government or conservation group-owned land, county by county and state by state.---ID#: 1871/17

We oppose the allocation of any additional state funds being given to groups/organizations for the purpose of conservation projects, conservation easements and/or land acquisitions.---ID#: 1886/17

We oppose the gifting of public lands to any organization; however, we support the sale of federal and state land back to the private sector.---ID#: 1051/16

We support the agricultural use of drain tile both as a conservation tool and as a flood mitigation tool. We oppose regulatory policy of damming or blocking drain tile without just compensation.--- ID#: 1549/17

We encourage state, counties, and townships to help and not hinder field tiling, since it helps reduce top soil erosion and reduces runoff water, thus improving the overall quality of water going down our stre ams.---I D#: 2041/16

We propose that all farmable land be exempt from wetlands designation and be eligible for drainage.---ID#: 1131/17

We support a mediation program concerning nuisance wetlands in North Dakota.---ID#: 1957/15
We support property owners' rights to drain their own property into a natural wetland.---ID#: 1576/15

We oppose the federal "wild and scenic" designation for any rivers and their tributaries in North Dakota and oppose wilderness land designation in the state.---ID#: 2085/16

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ndlongshot,

Yes, the gov appointed Jerry Doan to the ND Natural Resources Trust. Stakeholders. Checks and balances.

Would you now like to talk about the fellow at the bottom of that page? Dave Dittloff???????????????



Jerry Doan wasn't on the Board at the time. I cannot think of the old timer who was. Yes, I call people out. Keith Trego at NDNRT involved the agency in the 5% oil revenue rip off ballot measure con. He was at the Capitol working our legislators to support it. Of course it all backfired and they lost 80/20. That's not mud, it's fact.

measure 5 was a failure and was doomed from the start. Poorly written. With that said don't think for a minute that 80 percent of North Dakotans are against conservation in this state. Simply not true.

 

[PrairieGhost]

When it comes to hunting opportunities I can only see an improvement to the current situation. Also from a wildlife management perspective, specifically population dynamics, this would be a great population reservoir to spread into the adjacent countryside once populations reach carry capacity. Hunters will like that. Ranchers ----- they will like it when they get paid for elk, but I suppose they will claim damages for the benefits also.

 

[ndlongshot]

Speaking of orgs and their agendas and what to expect down the road…. if it were up to North Dakota Farm Bureau and others there would be no public land as they support the sale of public land to the private sector, all wetlands would be drained, non-residents would have no hunting restrictions in ND, existing and future wildlife and conservation easements would be bought out/erased/outlawed, state school land be sold in its entirety to active ag producers, every tillable acre should have drain tile, no support for a CRP type program, the list goes on. They want the cake and to eat it too. And they want OUR public lands. SMH

https://www.ndfb.org/image/cache/2017_NDFB_Policy_Book.pdf
http://ndfu.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/2017-Program-of-Policy-and-Action.pdf


We oppose limiting the number of out-of-state hunters and/or trappers or any difference in season limitations between resident and non-resident hunters.---ID#: 2040/16

We oppose any tax revenue from oil or gas going to conservation groups and using any money from the outdoor heritage fund to pay for a state funded conservation reserve program replacement or substitute.---ID#: 2055/16

We support efforts to control the black bird and Canada goose population to the point where it is no longer an economic problem for agriculture.---ID#: 2064/16

We support a no net gain of government or conservation group-owned land, county by county and state by state.---ID#: 1871/17

We oppose the allocation of any additional state funds being given to groups/organizations for the purpose of conservation projects, conservation easements and/or land acquisitions.---ID#: 1886/17

We oppose the gifting of public lands to any organization; however, we support the sale of federal and state land back to the private sector.---ID#: 1051/16

We support the agricultural use of drain tile both as a conservation tool and as a flood mitigation tool. We oppose regulatory policy of damming or blocking drain tile without just compensation.--- ID#: 1549/17

We encourage state, counties, and townships to help and not hinder field tiling, since it helps reduce top soil erosion and reduces runoff water, thus improving the overall quality of water going down our stre ams.---I D#: 2041/16

We propose that all farmable land be exempt from wetlands designation and be eligible for drainage.---ID#: 1131/17

We support a mediation program concerning nuisance wetlands in North Dakota.---ID#: 1957/15
We support property owners' rights to drain their own property into a natural wetland.---ID#: 1576/15

We oppose the federal "wild and scenic" designation for any rivers and their tributaries in North Dakota and oppose wilderness land designation in the state.---ID#: 2085/16

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When you see it bullet for bullet like that, its very eye opening....

 

[PrairieGhost]

North Dakota Farm Bureau would fall under my identification of money worshipers. Also the three R farming practices, rip, rape, and run. When will we understand that freedom extends until it damages others. This isn't the dark ages of ignorance. Drainage causes millions in damage down stream, and one goal of tile is to flush the chemicals they have poisoned their own land with.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

We oppose limiting the number of out-of-state hunters and/or trappers or any difference in season limitations between resident and non-resident hunters.---ID#: 2040/16

​

Reciprocity, many of us hunt/fish in other States.

We oppose any tax revenue from oil or gas going to conservation groups and using any money from the outdoor heritage fund to pay for a state funded conservation reserve program replacement or substitute.---ID#: 2055/16

​

I wrote that one.

We support efforts to control the black bird and Canada goose population to the point where it is no longer an economic problem for agriculture.---ID#: 2064/16

​

It's called early season goose to harvest some of the locals before the migrants.

We support a no net gain of government or conservation group-owned land, county by county and state by state.---ID#: 1871/17

​

Hunting and fishing are great but we also need room to raise our families and make a living.

We oppose the allocation of any additional state funds being given to groups/organizations for the purpose of conservation projects, conservation easements and/or land acquisitions.---ID#: 1886/17

​

The vote was 80/20.

We oppose the gifting of public lands to any organization; however, we support the sale of federal and state land back to the private sector.---ID#: 1051/16

​

Residents of Utah and Nevada know all about their federal landlord.

We support the agricultural use of drain tile both as a conservation tool and as a flood mitigation tool. We oppose regulatory policy of damming or blocking drain tile without just compensation.--- ID#: 1549/17

​

Senator Larry Luick can speak volumes about soil health before and after drain tile.

We encourage state, counties, and townships to help and not hinder field tiling, since it helps reduce top soil erosion and reduces runoff water, thus improving the overall quality of water going down our streams.---I D#: 2041/16

We propose that all farmable land be exempt from wetlands designation and be eligible for drainage.---ID#: 1131/17

We support a mediation program concerning nuisance wetlands in North Dakota.---ID#: 1957/15
We support property owners' rights to drain their own property into a natural wetland.---ID#: 1576/15

We oppose the federal "wild and scenic" designation for any rivers and their tributaries in North Dakota and oppose wilderness land designation in the state.---ID#: 2085/16

It was called the Northern Plains Heritage Area which encompassed five counties along the Missouri River. Another sneak attack. The Abraham Lincoln Foundation got some money to kick start it and then Tracy Potter used some of that money to fly to Washington DC to lobby for more money. That is against the law. Obama signed it. When the residence in those five counties found out there was hell to pay.

Incidentally, Tracey Potters wife is the head of the ND Badlands Conservation Alliance trying to find some foundation money to get a wilderness designation in the Badlands. Can't these people find honest employment. Tracey Potters last hurrah was when the democrats ran him for Department of Public Instruction. He lost big time.
​

 

[Bacon]

North Dakota Farm Bureau would fall under my identification of money worshipers. Also the three R farming practices, rip, rape, and run. When will we understand that freedom extends until it damages others. This isn't the dark ages of ignorance. Drainage causes millions in damage down stream, and one goal of tile is to flush the chemicals they have poisoned their own land with.

My you are ignorant of farming. Chemicals and fertilizer are cheap so we like to over apply them and then wash them away with drainage. Do you even comprehend what you write?

 

[BBQBluesMan]

Such a cheerleader Fritz. Actually quite comical. I'm not buying it. The ag groups and supporters want all the public land. Facts are tough to accept, I know

 

[PrairieGhost]

Bacon the guys with the white soil sure want drain tile.

BBQBluesMan Fritz and GST have advocated for all federal land to be given to the states because the states will manage better. I'm sure you know as well as I do what that means. In North Dakota it means managing for agriculture not wildlife or natural habitat. They are not happy with 90% they want it all. Then if your wallet is fat enough you can pay them to hunt. The peons can sit at home and play video games I guess. Money worshipers. I sure hope they don't start with the false argument about how "their taxes" are being used.

I think to vote you should have to show your tax return and prove you have given more than you have taken.

 

[gst]

No. I dont know him. But I want to know your opinion whether you think he's a fool for sitting on this board?

Is he misguided? Why wasn't his name mentioned when talking about other folks on the board. Is he just a puppet? As the other ranchers are? Since they are only there for image..............Most ranchers I know wouldnt waste time being a puppet.

Would you ever serve on this board? To help communicate and find common ground? Seems worthy of any community minded person and he should be commended. We should all strive to understand and work together on issues important to us and our businesses. Or would it only be for image? And if so, why is Mr Doan doing this? For image? Or because he cares about conservation.

I gave you my opinion of Jerry, nice guy and a strong advocate for better managing grasslands. In Jerrys case he strongly beleieves in the value of conservation like many if not most ranchers do anymore and I think he would like to see these orgs working WITH ranchers in a more genuine manner than they have in the past. Take some time to tour the Blackleg ranch and see their commitment to conservation, perhaps that will answer your questions.

As to me serving on boards, I was just thinking back on the way home from a hockey game tonite about that very thing. I was first asked to serve on a board when I was 18 and was asked in a continuing manner for the nest 32 years to serve on various boards so I am done for a while.

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North Dakota Farm Bureau would fall under my identification of money worshipers. Also the three R farming practices, rip, rape, and run. When will we understand that freedom extends until it damages others. This isn't the dark ages of ignorance. Drainage causes millions in damage down stream, and one goal of tile is to flush the chemicals they have poisoned their own land with.

;:;banghead
plains when it comes to what you actually know about ag indeed you are living in the "dark ages of ignorance"

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Such a cheerleader Fritz. Actually quite comical. I'm not buying it. The ag groups and supporters want all the public land. Facts are tough to accept, I know

Just out of curiousity what would you expect an "ag" group to advocate for? Perhaps things that benefit agriculture?

Say how do you write resolutions for groups like RMEF or DU or BCH&A?

Oh hey, how many of those groups advocate for benefits to things other than what their name suggests?

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Bacon the guys with the white soil sure want drain tile.

BBQBluesMan Fritz and GST have advocated for all federal land to be given to the states because the states will manage better. I'm sure you know as well as I do what that means. In North Dakota it means managing for agriculture not wildlife or natural habitat. They are not happy with 90% they want it all. Then if your wallet is fat enough you can pay them to hunt. The peons can sit at home and play video games I guess. Money worshipers. I sure hope they don't start with the false argument about how "their taxes" are being used.

I think to vote you should have to show your tax return and prove you have given more than you have taken.

Ah plains you know that is not true, I have shared a number of time the mission statement of the American lands council that would keep public lands public. Why do you lie to distract from the truth?

Say as a retired Federal employee cashing checks paid for by the tax payers, how much did you "take" as opposed to what you gave?