Badlands mule deer

[dust in the wind]

I hear if you buy these three arrows for $1,899.99 that you can shoot as big a muley as you want! Its that easy!

http://bishoparchery.com/3-cryo-dg-flf-full-length-fused-foc-king-arrow-shafts/

 

[Enslow]

I’m not badass at all I just hunt a lot and enjoy the outdoors. I also don’t make excuses when I fail I fix it.

 

[bigsky2]

Guns haven’t changed a bit they have always shot this far. Range finders have been out for a long time too. It’s just now tv shows promote long range shooting. For those who think it’s easy to get a Muley with new bows please prove it. The deer are there and they are buried in deep cover so they don’t get shot.

Maybe guns have always shot that far but we haven't always had range finders, fancy optics, and apps on your phone that help you shoot at those extreme distances. Ten years ago I never heard anyone saying they "set the dial on their scope" before taking a shot at an animal. Yesterday a friend of mine took his 14 year old niece out to get a cow elk. They found a group of cows but couldn't get close enough for her .243. He adjusted his rifle for the distance and handed it to her. Without ever shooting the rifle before she was able to drop the cow at 600 yards. I've heard several other stories similar to that this year. I'm not trying to turn this into one of those threads about the ethics of long range hunting, I'm just saying it definitely has an impact on whether some of the top end bucks can reach maturity or not.

 

[Enslow]

Good luck in your transition. I’m sur you will find the bucks worthy of your caliber to the east.

I also enjoyed ur cross posts of this on
#iamverybaddass

What are you talking about? Guy we need some butthurt butter we have some chaffing.

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Maybe guns have always shot that far but we haven't always had range finders, fancy optics, and apps on your phone that help you shoot at those extreme distances. Ten years ago I never heard anyone saying they "set the dial on their scope" before taking a shot at an animal. Yesterday a friend of mine took his 14 year old niece out to get a cow elk. They found a group of cows but couldn't get close enough for her .243. He adjusted his rifle for the distance and handed it to her. Without ever shooting the rifle before she was able to drop the cow at 600 yards. I've heard several other stories similar to that this year. I'm not trying to turn this into one of those threads about the ethics of long range hunting, I'm just saying it definitely has an impact on whether some of the top end bucks can reach maturity or not.

Screw the cap off of your turret on your rifle and you can make adjustments. It’s just now you don’t need to take the cover off they just mark the increments in MOA or inches. Long range shooting has been around forever.

 

[Kurtr]

Maybe guns have always shot that far but we haven't always had range finders, fancy optics, and apps on your phone that help you shoot at those extreme distances. Ten years ago I never heard anyone saying they "set the dial on their scope" before taking a shot at an animal. Yesterday a friend of mine took his 14 year old niece out to get a cow elk. They found a group of cows but couldn't get close enough for her .243. He adjusted his rifle for the distance and handed it to her. Without ever shooting the rifle before she was able to drop the cow at 600 yards. I've heard several other stories similar to that this year. I'm not trying to turn this into one of those threads about the ethics of long range hunting, I'm just saying it definitely has an impact on whether some of the top end bucks can reach maturity or not.

My grandpa was shooting an unertl scoped 30-06 with a douglas barrel and a trigger tuned up back in the late 60's or so. I have his small bore rifle he used for nra its a breech loading 218 bee with a unertl scope so to say it hasnt been done is not really true. Wish i could get it fixed.

 

[Tim Sandstrom]

Oh is this on queue!

All I can say is in two short years it has changed for me big time. We had 8 tags in the close family/friend category. WAAAAAAYYYYYYY too many at once. Crazy to think since all put in separate. Long story short, 3 did not fill. And not one filled over a 160 class deer. Not everyone was trying at the same effort but my poor brother started scouting in mid-Sept every weekend to opener and then hunted 16 STRAIGHT days never leaving the badlands. He was looking for 180 or better. Then 170 or better. Then we started talking 160 or better. Didn't happen.

Between me, a couple friends, himself, my wife and others there was TONS of glass time. And lots of miles on the ground between a few of us and especially my brother. The guy busted his butt harder than anyone I know and probably ever will know. He burned all his vacation in three weeks of hunting and left his life behind. Plus throw in the crazy weather conditions! Man did he ever deserve to be rewarded. He hunts the right way and ooof did I want it to happen for him.

Think I'll response to posts that jar my mind in order. This on is to say I agree. And it started last year just like you stated. I blamed it on the drought last year. Maybe it still is. But then I thought, maybe the geographic area just got hit too hard too long last year with the cold weather and it knocked down the tired mature deer doing most of the rut running. Then I went onto the bow hunters. Then the pressure. Then the public vs private. The list goes on.

I finally filled my tag yesterday afternoon. Curious what type of quality everyone else is seeing? I believe the buck quality is way down in the badlands. Even last year I didn't see as many mature bucks as I have in the past. I scouted all day before the opener and hunted everyday except one. So 12 days counting the scouting day. I don't believe I saw more then a handful of mature bucks. I covered a ton of country on foot and with glass. I road hunted 1 day. 6 of those days other people where hunting with me so twice as many eyes to spot game.

I was kind of comparing this hunt to one some family just did in Colorado. It takes about the same amount of points to draw the unit they hunted as it does to draw a badlands buck tag. They have never been in the unit or hunted Colorado before. They went 3 for 3 in 5 days and killed a 183 4/8's, 187 4/8's, and one that is probably 150-160 that didn't get measured. All on public. They are your normal weekend hunter that hunt blacktails in Washington.

Now my wife and I both had muley buck tags. I have spent a good amount of time in the badlands and know the unit pretty well. I know where I can go to see 100 deer in a day. And I honestly don't know if I saw a legit 180" buck.

Why such a difference in quality? I have my own thoughts and am curious what everyone else thinks.

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I'm being honest. In the last four years we see about two 170 plush deer each year while bow hunting. Best year we probably had 4 of them. We normally see a good handful of 160 deer. And a decent enough of "hmmm I better look" 150 class deer. The last two years, wow for terrible. And we normally only bow hunt in October when deer are solitude and hard to spot. So usually, expect that number to grow in quality deer sightings as the rut gets going. This year we did start to see some come out of the woodworks but ended up being too late in the hunt. But they were probably just mid-160 deer. Maybe one woulda cracked 170. Minus a good one that was bordering public. He made for a nice picture.

What unit were you in? I would agree with you that this year seemed tougher for mature bucks. I have hunted out west quite a bit as well, but honestly how many legit 180" bucks do you see every year?

what did you fill your tag on?

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I spoke to three ranchers this year. One was to the point he was pleading for bow hunters who stopped to ask him permission that they only shoot scrub junk horned bucks and leave genetic potential deep fork four points to see more years. The other said none of his hunting crew had shot a deer and the other while did have a dandy to show said the same thing. Tough to find the mature deer.

Granted, they are surrounded by a decent amount of public land so maybe they are victims of pressure. But we look at the tag situation, it still isn't what it use to be.

Private or Public land seems to be the hitch pin to finding mature mulies. Most of the guys that I know that hunted private land took mature bucks while the public land guys often settled for 150ish bucks. Lots of hunter pressure on public land starting with stick and string and continuing right up to the end of season in January, which I can't help but suspect pushes lots of the deer, both bucks and does, onto less pressured land, ie. private.

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I haven't been doing my job paying attention the last few years. Where did you pull 2017 numbers from? I'd like to get myself back informed on this because 1043 is not a small number and that might as you put it already, make me start to voice my opinion a different way than I want. But this might be turning into need vs want!

Im gonna say it but i dont really want to... Bow hunter pressure and success has something to do with it. In 2014 archers killed 453 mile deer. In 2017 archers killed 1046 mule deer... That, along with more ambitious hunters in general.

 

[Enslow]

I’ve only seen maybe 4 170 plus Muleys in the badlands the last 3 years. It’s tough real tough for big deer but they are there.

 

[Tim Sandstrom]

Agree to some of this (good portion). But I hunt areas where I think I can say like 5 new wells have been drilled in 10 years and about that many have been reclaimed. Plus the Bakken traffic doesn't make its way anywhere that I'd say roadkill would have an effect.

And why such a hard change in the last two years? Things were rebounding since the winters were tough on them. Things were rebounding nicely after the SD cat issue started to alleviate itself (due to harvesting of cats and also winter killing their food supply so they moved on or kept moving on). Cats I think are still evident and their 1 deer per 10 days doesn't help. But the doe to twin fawn ration was actually pretty good in my eyes.

Overall, I still don't feel we are near what I remember as a kid and adolescent growing up but things are getting better.

Social media? Ha, hell I almost feel like I get way less photos then the good old days of just website posting vs Facebook or snapchat. I guess people are only friendly to their friends on the Book or Snap an I'm too much of a pride guy I don't send friend requests to every Tom, Dick and Harry. Ha!

Anyway, don't know if social media has been hurting things as much as one thinks. Fishing maybe. Hunting, not sure. Suppose it has some effect.

Rut and rifle! Yes, yes, yes, yes. Again, one of those things I don't want to lose but man, if I'm going to get a tag once every 6-9 years I sure wouldn't mind not getting the rut to hunt and know my chances at more mature deer goes up based off the effort I put into the hunt.

The best days of the badlands are gone, there's just to much pressure on those public lands. I score allot of the biggest deer in the state each year and the vast majority of the best muleys come off private lands, its not even close. They can control what is being harvested and now days on allot of ranches if its not 180 gross its not getting shot, at least by the adults. And I think the oil field has really put the hurt on the muleys as well, from both poaching and getting hit on the roads. Can't imagine how many get smoked by trucks every week.
And you will also start to see more and more leasing and outfitters as the years go on state wide.
Hate to say it but social media is the demise of good hunting across the country. Information is way to readily available these days with the click of a button
And with things like ND bucks and bulls it just adds fuel to that fire for our state.

Loose lips sink ships...

Oh and having rifle season smack dab during the rut is a shame...sorry but it is. Nothing easier to kill than a buck muley in November.

 

[SDMF]

My grandpa was shooting an unertl scoped 30-06 with a douglas barrel and a trigger tuned up back in the late 60's or so. I have his small bore rifle he used for nra its a breech loading 218 bee with a unertl scope so to say it hasnt been done is not really true. Wish i could get it fixed.

What's wrong with it? It's just a Martini Cadet action, should be plenty of parts around.

 

[Whisky]

2017 deer summary

https://gf.nd.gov/news/2290

 

[Tim Sandstrom]

IDK man, I'm thinking about going to 4c, ha! The first two weekends had lots of road activity. But honestly, what confused the hell out of me is with all the hunters I rarely see orange in the field or beyond the "quarter milers" that walk 400 yards out, turn around and say they walked a mile even though it was 800 yards. ;-). Now I know road hunting kills deer and it can get good ones too especially in the rut, but I'm not kidding. My brother was out there 16 days straight never leaving. He saw a total of 3....THREE people and cut boot tracks in the snow maybe that many times. So its just strange to me that hunting pressure even with road hunting can cut down the deer.

Like you, 2016 was the last year of quality deer. How the bottom of the barrel can fall out sooooo fast is just suprising to me. Baffling. I mean tags went up but I just don't think enough to be a huge concern...yet.

2016 was the last good year I saw several bucks in the 160-180+ range the last two years if you see a 160-170 that may be the biggest buck you see all year in 4C. I have to agree with the guys who say people are hunting harder and just about anyone can kill a deer with a bow now. I honestly am ready to go back to 4b and drive the extra hour, there is way more pressure in 4c in the last 3 years then I ever remember. Maybe if ndgf expands 4c again it might take some pressure off, but who knows.

 

[pluckem]

Like most things I think its an "all of the above" situation. Can debate all you want about what each potential reason is the worst.


Are more deer shot and killed (including wounded or not recovered animals) during archery season than ever before... yes
Is there increased pressure on public land... yes
Is it more difficult to access private land... yes
Do more people have the equipment needed to consistently hit a deer 300-900yds... yes
Are people being more selective and hunting harder than before... yes
etc..


Our bow season is open for 4 months of the year and our rifle season is open during the rut... what do you guys expect for public land? The place isn't that big, if weather allows, the roads and trails go all over the place legal or not.

 

[Enslow]

If you are reading deer stats from the NDGF, you might as well read the funny papers and get a laugh.

 

[Tim Sandstrom]

4a I can agree more roads is screwing up the border of that unit. 4c maybe a bit of that to the north. But the rest hasn't seen Bakken development so I can't go with more roads and oil pads. Heck, I've lost miles of roads due to reclamation. I think more of it is on the horizon due to aging and dying wells. Be interesting in a couple years what happens to some of these sites.

Now, I do think the roadless areas they put up need the grasslands folks to get out and put up signs saying no motor vehicle traffic. The day of ranchers riding horse is quickly disappearing opting for the reliable wheeler or side-by-side so some more prairie type trails are popping up because people see tire tracks and think, there's a trail!. I'm not terrible disappointed with roads. I plan to get old too and would like to be around and do some of these things so a few roads isn't bad. But I also want rules enforced on roads that shouldn't be roads. But the point is, I don't see uptick in roads where I am. So as noted in other posts, I just struggled with road hunters doing all the damage. Maybe it is a combination of road and long range rifles but I don't think so. I don't see people going out and getting critters past 200-300.

As vast as the badlands seem to us, the reality is between the grazing and the oil pads and related traffic.....

Very little of the region is actually "remote" at this point and many areas are down right busy.

IMHO The world of the remote wilderness territory is more of a romantic fantasy than reality.

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Kurtr stated it rightly that winter in ND is tougher than Colorado due to in Colorado deer have a fighting chance to migrate. In ND, they can get stuck in it for a long time. So I agree, we don't want to waste deer hunting opportunity so maybe the magic compromise is to come up with a way to reduce rut based hunting. That's where I'm leaning. Truly am.

Rifle season should not be during the rut. That would limit the amount of mature bucks taken.

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You and your wife did damn good given what you opened up with!

My buck is the one in my left hand. Wife's in in the right hand. The buck I killed is probably the most mature buck I saw during the hunt.

 

[Enslow]

Everyone can bitch all they want but come east to the black desert now for rut. It’s not much action.

 

[Kurtr]

What's wrong with it? It's just a Martini Cadet action, should be plenty of parts around.

the extractor is one problem but the part no one wants to fix is the forearm it has a piece that was brazed to the bbl the it screws to no one wants to take the chance of wrecking it.

 

[Tim Sandstrom]

No. Its not, but they are out there (or hell, use to be...ha). I do have my expectations set for 180 these days just because of the phase of hunting I'm in currently but a 170 is a nice damn deer. A 160 is fine in its own regard. 180 in the mountain states in todays world is not exactly a slouch either.

I get your point, I do but don't know what it is, seeing that deer that requires limited review of the spotter is what makes my heart flutter. With my son soon to enter the hunting world my hunting style will revert more back to giving him opportunity to see animals pursued and eaten including does and probably stepped-down hornage. I remember when I wanted my dad to just 'GET ONE' and my son is already doing that with me. So I gotta give him it to keep him interested, make him proud as they say. Look forward to it. Until then, where's the damn mature fellas go! Ha.

I also think that tv and social media have taken a toll on expectations. I have been watching a series on YouTube call land of the free by both and raised outdoors and destination elk by elk 101. They are elk hunting not mule deer but they shoot mature bulls. My only other reference for elk has been tv. I use to think a mature bull should be 350 inches. But watching these series I'm thinking maybe if you hit 300 your doing good. Is a 180 class mule deer in the badlands a realistic norm?

 

[pluckem]

IDK man, I'm thinking about going to 4c, ha! The first two weekends had lots of road activity. But honestly, what confused the hell out of me is with all the hunters I rarely see orange in the field or beyond the "quarter milers" that walk 400 yards out, turn around and say they walked a mile even though it was 800 yards. ;-). Now I know road hunting kills deer and it can get good ones too especially in the rut, but I'm not kidding. My brother was out there 16 days straight never leaving. He saw a total of 3....THREE people and cut boot tracks in the snow maybe that many times. So its just strange to me that hunting pressure even with road hunting can cut down the deer.

This surprises me and has not been my experience over the last 5 years including archery and rifle seasons covering south part of 4E to north part of 4B and areas in between.
Lots of road traffic and pressure close to the road during archery season. However, come rifle season I have seen people and pickups all over. Stuff where the public land guy has to walk 1-3 miles to get to, however the neighboring private land owners can take an ATV or pickup right to it.

Anyway, it is surprising given the lack of pressure he noticed that it didn't seem to help out with the mature deer sightings.

 

[Tim Sandstrom]

Ha.

Not saying I won't do this in my life (go with an opportunity to hunt prime conditions) but it will be done in a way I like to hunt and with little or no hand holding. But for now, I'll laugh along.

$1900?????

I can't imagine sitting at some fancy hunting lodge having dinner/drinks - forced to listen to some oil tycoon, auto dealership owner, or trust fund yahoo telling me about the price of his arrows, broadheads, blah, blah, blah

I don't know how the high end guides keep from committing suicide. Seriously - how could you endure that?

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The weather was not kind where we hunted. 4-6 inches of snow opening. 7-10 second weekend. Melted in-between both. Brutal conditions for folks to walk. He did it and given we normally do see a few go out there and getters it was a bit alarming.

And yes, the effort my brother put in I actually feel damn sad he didn't punch his tag. He could have and was trying to fill a "story" buck with it on Sunday morning but up to that point, the poor fella probably had no hope. Sounds like a sob story...ha, I guess it is.

This surprises me and has not been my experience over the last 5 years including archery and rifle seasons covering south part of 4E to north part of 4B and areas in between.
Lots of road traffic and pressure close to the road during archery season. However, come rifle season I have seen people and pickups all over. Stuff where the public land guy has to walk 1-3 miles to get to, however the neighboring private land owners can take an ATV or pickup right to it.

Anyway, it is surprising given the lack of pressure he noticed that it didn't seem to help out with the mature deer sightings.

 

[7mmshooter]

Enslow I hunted the badlands for the first time ever this year. We seen a nice 150 class we messed up on. Then found a beautiful mid 170s some fricken little kid shot the heart in half. He was with a nice 160class buck.