Bending over

[eyexer]

Exactly. So many people don’t understand the difference between keeping more of your own money and being given somebody else’s money

 

[Bob Erfish]

A quick google search for me brought up a Forbes article showing where most "oil subsidies" were in fact tax breaks that were not at all exclusive to oil companies.

I've been reading about this transmission line going into MN from the coal creek plant. Can someone with some knowledge of it explain how they came to acquire the land to put it up? Do they pay all the farmers monthly to have it run across their land? Why can't land owners tell GRE to get that shit off their property?

 

[Davey Crockett]

A quick google search for me brought up a Forbes article showing where most "oil subsidies" were in fact tax breaks that were not at all exclusive to oil companies.

I've been reading about this transmission line going into MN from the coal creek plant. Can someone with some knowledge of it explain how they came to acquire the land to put it up? Do they pay all the farmers monthly to have it run across their land? Why can't land owners tell GRE to get that shit off their property?

They are obligated to the easements they have signed.

 

[sweeney]

A quick google search for me brought up a Forbes article showing where most "oil subsidies" were in fact tax breaks that were not at all exclusive to oil companies.

I've been reading about this transmission line going into MN from the coal creek plant. Can someone with some knowledge of it explain how they came to acquire the land to put it up? Do they pay all the farmers monthly to have it run across their land? Why can't land owners tell GRE to get that shit off their property?

They usually have land agents who's sole job is to procure land usually by putting in an offer for an easement or a purchase of land along a predetermined studied route. Sometimes people don't want to sell and if it is feasible they offer more money or change routes if it's not they can get the gov't to use eminent domain as it is for the better good of the nation.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

PG says,

I am all for keeping the plants open too. I will tell you the little I do know about the atmospheric carbon. German satelites monitoring atmospheric carbon could not understand why high carbon content in the atmosphere was significantly reduced as it entered Minnesota. Plants as they grow take in carbon and give off oxygen. As the plant growes above and below ground it is storing carbon. So they looked at farm fields and they provided no storage because the carbon is released when its plowed. The same with CRP when they looked at it. Storage was only seasonal or temporary at best. Pasture land does provide some permanent storage, but the biomass of their root systems is small, and did not account for the reduced atmospheric carbon as it passed through North Dakota. The answer was wetlands with their huge biomass of root systems. Up to 35 tons ler acre was stored in wetlands. Of course if you drain and plow it fizzes off like opening a bottle of champain.

Pull together the coal companies, the conservation organizations, and you may then even pull in some gov money on the grounds of environmentally friendly coal.​

A really nice pitch. I'll pass. Check out this famer fined $2.8 million for plowing his own field.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/...es-2-8-million-fine-for-plowing-his-own-field

guys says,

Can't wait for Fritz and his advisor to figure out how to twist this in order to throw "the retired fed" under the bus.​

Guy, Is it true you have been arguing with Gabe on facebook? I don't facebook.

 

[sig357]

Are the workers union?

As far as I know there is no Union at GRE. I am part of the IBEW 1593 here at one of the other plants. Hoping and praying something comes thru for all those men and women that work for or with the plant. This wrong is literally going to ruin all those communities and the fuckers in Minnesota are high fiving and celebrating.

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They’ve been working on carbon capture for a long time now. And the coal fired plants are extremely clean now. Most of what you actually see I think is water vapor.

Most of it is steam/water vapor. Most plants have state of the art scrubbers, mercury reduction and NOX reduction units operating to meet EPA standards but the one that is hard to get away from was the Carbon. That is why Project Trunda is so important to Minnkota power and some of these other facilities will follow suite if it is feasible and cost effective for the companies.

 

[sl1000794]

Wife's cousin's husband worked at Antelope Station (I think that was the plant) and he told me that they used 19% of the generated electricity to run/scrub/clean the plant. They only had 81% of their generating capacity to sell.

 

[NDbowman]

like agriculture?

did you get a stimulus check?

 

[agriffith]

"did you get a stimulus check"

I did and spent it right away to help keep local businesses going. But I will tell you I paid more federal income tax last year than I received in stimulus.

 

[Davey Crockett]

"did you get a stimulus check"

I did and spent it right away to help keep local businesses going. But I will tell you I paid more federal income tax last year than I received in stimulus.

We all did and we will pay for it dearly in the future.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

I worked at Coteau supplying coal to Antelope Valley Generating and Dakota Gasification. Both are owned by Basin Electric Coop. When I was there we mined 15 million tons per year. Baseball sized chunks went to the Gasification Plant. They needed them to move oxygen through it while the fines went to the AVS boilers.

Natural gas was made and put into a pipeline to Chicago. Just think, ND heated Chicago while the propagandized people of Chicago voted for Obama who was against coal. Sure there was talk of turning the gas off for a couple of cold winter days to make the low information voters in Chicago see the light. Of course we can't do that. If one person in Chicago were to die of exposure we could be sued.

It chaps my ass how we bucked over snowbanks and worked around the clock through some really bad weather to get the product in the pipeline and powerline to people who have no appreciation.

Cheaper natural gas from oil wells have since replaced coal to gas put into that pipeline. Dakota Gas has switched to making fertilizer and several other by-products. Antelope Generating also captures CO2. It goes into a pipeline destined for Canada. Pushed down into a non-producing oil well head, it helps push or recover more oil while sequestering the CO2.

The last truck I drove was a Kress. Hauled 300 ton. 1900 horse engine. The engine is in the back setting backwards on top of the differential. From the engine into a converter then into a drop box. The drop box went into the transmission mounted on the differential.

The operators really liked these trucks, the mechanics not so much. It was tight and busy around that drive train.

 

[sl1000794]

There is a guy here at Metigoshe that is an engineer on drilling rigs in northern Alberta. (Davey you may know him.) He says that they are drilling in a wet gas field and some wells produce 1000 bbl per day of high grade "drip." They used to separate the drip from the natural gas and add the drip to the HEAVY tar sand oil so the tar sand oil would go down the pipeline and the gas went to the Chicago area in a pipeline. Now there is no room to sent the tar sand oil/drip to a refinery facility, so the wells are shutting down, no more gas is being produced and he is out of work.

 

[sweeney]

We all did and we will pay for it dearly in the future.

#nostimulusforme figured trump would at least send me an autograph thanking me for all the ot I worked last year and income tax I paid.

 

[guywhofishes]

did you get a stimulus check?

nope

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why do you ask?

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Interesting story:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mar...ts-endgame/ar-BB1413kX?ocid=spartan-dhp-feeds

German coal miners are being replaced by renewables that are backed up by natural gas. The gas is from Russia.

A lot of money has been spent to convince the world global warming is real and we must develop renewables...backed up by natural gas.

There was some talk of taking out the Coal Creek Station boiler and converting it to natural gas. Won't happen. A new facility could be built cheaper.

 

[eyexer]

There is a guy here at Metigoshe that is an engineer on drilling rigs in northern Alberta. (Davey you may know him.) He says that they are drilling in a wet gas field and some wells produce 1000 bbl per day of high grade "drip." They used to separate the drip from the natural gas and add the drip to the HEAVY tar sand oil so the tar sand oil would go down the pipeline and the gas went to the Chicago area in a pipeline. Now there is no room to sent the tar sand oil/drip to a refinery facility, so the wells are shutting down, no more gas is being produced and he is out of work.

my brother in law works at the Koch refinery in MN. Few years ago they built a special addition to the plant just to refine the tar sands oil. They are running full capacity for that oil. They get it cheap as hell because it’s so bad and there is pretty much nobody that can refine it or want to piss around with it.

 

[v193]

Wife's cousin's husband worked at Antelope Station (I think that was the plant) and he told me that they used 19% of the generated electricity to run/scrub/clean the plant. They only had 81% of their generating capacity to sell.

Its 10% and that is not figured into the capacity. If your plant is 500mw, about 50mw goes into running it (station service), there are a lot of big motors associated with the process. but the plant would be rated at 450mw and probably have an urge rating around 490mw, which means that for a short period of time the plant could potentially operate at 540mw gross netting 490mw. Or equal to about 1620 North Dakota Wind Towers capacity. or 2500 Minnesota Wind Towers Capacity (less wind)

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Current Mix in the MISO market, keep in mind at this moment of posting the wind was favorable for producing power. Fossil Fuels still rule the roost. And it is not going anywhere without HUGE $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and loss of reliability.

 

[sig357]

Its 10% and that is not figured into the capacity. If your plant is 500mw, about 50mw goes into running it (station service), there are a lot of big motors associated with the process. but the plant would be rated at 450mw and probably have an urge rating around 490mw, which means that for a short period of time the plant could potentially operate at 540mw gross netting 490mw. Or equal to about 1620 North Dakota Wind Towers capacity. or 2500 Minnesota Wind Towers Capacity (less wind)

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Current Mix in the MISO market, keep in mind at this moment of posting the wind was favorable for producing power. Fossil Fuels still rule the roost. And it is not going anywhere without HUGE $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and loss of reliability.

Wish I would have saved some of my screenshots of miso this winter!

 

[Migrator Man]

Only three?? A simple google search will net you about 10 different direct and indirect subsidies the crude oil industry gets or has gotten.

Thank you for that. ^^^^^^
​

93% of Federal subsidies goes to renewables. 7% to fossil fuels. And a majority of our energy comes from fossils fuels. New argument please!

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my brother in law works at the Koch refinery in MN. Few years ago they built a special addition to the plant just to refine the tar sands oil. They are running full capacity for that oil. They get it cheap as hell because it’s so bad and there is pretty much nobody that can refine it or want to piss around with it.

Not exactly true there are a ton of refineries that want heavy oil. Maybe you are talking about a sour crude. The Great Lakes refineries are all fitted to refine this oil that originally came from over seas and now is mainly supplied by Canada. Refineries like oil sands oil because it makes more of the asphalt than a Bakken crude does. That is probably why Koch is running heavy oil right now to meet the demand of asphalt while the demand for all other fuels is very low. This oil from Canada is cheap because they are over supplied and have limited transport options just like Bakken crude.

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There is a guy here at Metigoshe that is an engineer on drilling rigs in northern Alberta. (Davey you may know him.) He says that they are drilling in a wet gas field and some wells produce 1000 bbl per day of high grade "drip." They used to separate the drip from the natural gas and add the drip to the HEAVY tar sand oil so the tar sand oil would go down the pipeline and the gas went to the Chicago area in a pipeline. Now there is no room to sent the tar sand oil/drip to a refinery facility, so the wells are shutting down, no more gas is being produced and he is out of work.

The demand for condensate will come back as soon as the demand for fuels in the US comes back. The refineries in the Midwest rely on Canada for their oil so they can ramp back up once the refineries are ready.

 

[eyexer]

93% of Federal subsidies goes to renewables. 7% to fossil fuels. And a majority of our energy comes from fossils fuels. New argument please!

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Not exactly true there are a ton of refineries that want heavy oil. Maybe you are talking about a sour crude. The Great Lakes refineries are all fitted to refine this oil that originally came from over seas and now is mainly supplied by Canada. Refineries like oil sands oil because it makes more of the asphalt than a Bakken crude does. That is probably why Koch is running heavy oil right now to meet the demand of asphalt while the demand for all other fuels is very low. This oil from Canada is cheap because they are over supplied and have limited transport options just like Bakken crude.

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The demand for condensate will come back as soon as the demand for fuels in the US comes back. The refineries in the Midwest rely on Canada for their oil so they can ramp back up once the refineries are ready.

No that’s not what I’m talking about. They have had this addition to their refinery going for a few years. It’s sole purpose was to refine the tar sands oil. They get it very cheap. Tar sands oil makes up only a fraction of the oil from Canada