Bending over

[LBrandt]

This will not be over until the FAT LADY SINGS.:::

 

[sweeney]

As I drove past I would always look for the odd yellow/brown streak of emissions in the sky when driving by the gasification plant - it’s kind of obvious and yet hidden at the same time. Sort of like a mirage - hard to explain. It would often extend off into the horizon - it never seemed to dissipate.

Gasification plant and coal fired generation plants are totally different animals as far as emissions due to the different processes but, what i remember is the stench the gas plant made.

 

[Up Y'oars]

Would it be possible to start a cooperative or could everyone just chip in and buy it?

It still would only be able to provide power to Minnesota. The transmission line from GRE only goes to the SE and doesn't connect with any other lines, so rerouting the electricity is impossible without further transmission line construction. The complication to the problem is that transmission lines for DC current is VERY VERY expensive! This is why no other buyer of the plant will come to fruition. There were a couple of other electrical projects up-and-coming but when the company realized THEY would have to also build the transmission lines they pulled out of the project (NW North Dakota).

The number of transmission lines to the western 1/2 of the US is very limited! At some point this country will HAVE to build more lines or our capacity to transfer electricity around will be maxed out. The country is, once again (other than taxes), just kicking the can down the road until one day it becomes a 'must' just prior to brown-outs or blackouts.

 

[guywhofishes]

They’ve been working on carbon capture for a long time now. And the coal fired plants are extremely clean now. Most of what you actually see I think is water vapor.

once the water vapor dissipates the translucent amber emissions go on in a streak for 10s of miles

it’s subtle, not obvious, you have to look for it purposefully

 

[sweeney]

They’ve been working on carbon capture for a long time now. And the coal fired plants are extremely clean now. Most of what you actually see I think is water vapor.

Even before the gov't mandates from the obama administration/epa that nearly doubled in some cases the price per MW that it costs coal plants to produce power the plants around here were all on the cleaner sides vs. the rest of the world due to their scrubbers and bag houses and other types of particulate catching/limiting devices, If i remember right NOX SOX mercury and co2 were the main emissions worried about among the water vapor going out the stacks and they were measured in often fractions of parts per million or billion. Alot of the new emmision standards reduced those numbers even more, but they came at a cost to the coal plants although some of that cost was subsidized it did raise certain plants from 20 some cents a MW to nearly 40 odd cents. which was obviously part of the green plan to show that wind could compete on a price per MW basis.

 

[NDSportsman]

You needed to start another thread for this? I get it that this is probably effecting your lively hood and you need to vent but it is what it is, a dying industry. If it was profitable to keep open there would be a buyer for it.

 

[SLE]

You needed to start another thread for this? I get it that this is probably effecting your lively hood and you need to vent but it is what it is, a dying industry. If it was profitable to keep open there would be a buyer for it.

And if we weren't subsidizing green energy with tax dollars, it would be profitable......................................

 

[PrairieGhost]

I am all for keeping the plants open too. I will tell you the little I do know about the atmospheric carbon. German satelites monitoring atmospheric carbon could not understand why high carbon content in the atmosphere was significantly reduced as it entered Minnesota. Plants as they grow take in carbon and give off oxygen. As the plant growes above and below ground it is storing carbon. So they looked at farm fields and they provided no storage because the carbon is released when its plowed. The same with CRP when they looked at it. Storage was only seasonal or temporary at best. Pasture land does provide some permanent storage, but the biomass of their root systems is small, and did not account for the reduced atmospheric carbon as it passed through North Dakota. The answer was wetlands with their huge biomass of root systems. Up to 35 tons ler acre was stored in wetlands. Of course if you drain and plow it fizzes off like opening a bottle of champain.

Pull together the coal companies, the conservation organizations, and you may then even pull in some gov money on the grounds of environmentally friendly coal.

 

[bravo]

The reason coal creek station became unprofitable was a result of their CEO’s vision. A few years back he decided to play politics and claimed that wind is the new baseload. They began operating coal creek as a peaking unit, which was horribly inefficient. Baseload plants are meant to be run wide open, and consume a huge amount of fuel when cycling up and down. They also get a less complete combustion, which means more pollutants heading towards the stack must be scrubbed to meet environmental standards ($$$). Cycling up and down constantly to accommodate wind is not what it was made for. Operating this way was a self-fulfilling prophecy that wind has outperformed coal.

Coal creek station, if ran they way it was designed to, would do nothing but make money.

 

[guywhofishes]

I am all for keeping the plants open too. I will tell you the little I do know about the atmospheric carbon. German satelites monitoring atmospheric carbon could not understand why high carbon content in the atmosphere was significantly reduced as it entered Minnesota. Plants as they grow take in carbon and give off oxygen. As the plant growes above and below ground it is storing carbon. So they looked at farm fields and they provided no storage because the carbon is released when its plowed. The same with CRP when they looked at it. Storage was only seasonal or temporary at best. Pasture land does provide some permanent storage, but the biomass of their root systems is small, and did not account for the reduced atmospheric carbon as it passed through North Dakota. The answer was wetlands with their huge biomass of root systems. Up to 35 tons ler acre was stored in wetlands. Of course if you drain and plow it fizzes off like opening a bottle of champain.

Pull together the coal companies, the conservation organizations, and you may then even pull in some gov money on the grounds of environmentally friendly coal.

Can't wait for Fritz and his advisor to figure out how to twist this in order to throw "the retired fed" under the bus.

#carboncaptureisascam

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And if we weren't subsidizing green energy with tax dollars, it would be profitable......................................

yep - NOT an even playing field

 

[3tt3v]

but its ok to subsidize the oil industry

 

[guywhofishes]

but its ok to subsidize the oil industry

like agriculture?

 

[Up Y'oars]

Coal Movie

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Also, contact the PSC with a quick message that those transmission lines MUST be removed if the plant is dismantled. We, here in ND, don't need those structures sitting there being an eyesore of a bad memory.

ndpsc@nd.gov

 

[eyexer]

but its ok to subsidize the oil industry

List three subsidy programs oil gets

 

[dblkluk]

I can’t think of a better use for spending some of the Legacy Fund or $$ from the Land & Mineral Trust Fund to save this industry. Every North Dakotan has skin in this game and we should all rally to the cause

What part of "the plant is no longer profitable" don't you understand?

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List three subsidy programs oil gets

Only three?? A simple google search will net you about 10 different direct and indirect subsidies the crude oil industry gets or has gotten.

 

[3tt3v]

Only three?? A simple google search will net you about 10 different direct and indirect subsidies the crude oil industry gets or has gotten.

Thank you for that. ^^^^^^
​

 

[Kurtr]

I hate wind towers they are useless ugly and almost as much bullshit as ethanol

 

[eyexer]

What part of "the plant is no longer profitable" don't you understand?

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Only three?? A simple google search will net you about 10 different direct and indirect subsidies the crude oil industry gets or has gotten.

ill look at those after a bit. Are you by chance confusing tax breaks with subsidies like most do?

 

[guywhofishes]

surprised that those POS towers don't creep into our garages at night to destroy our personal property

like ethanol did - before I woke up and realized it's the devil on engines/carbs/fiberglass tanks/etc.

 

[Brian Renville]

ill look at those after a bit. Are you by chance confusing tax breaks with subsidies like most do?

It's interesting how when any business pays employees, buys equipment, pays utilities that the government says that cant be counted as taxable income because well it isn't income. When a oil company does it however its "CORPORATE WELFARE!" "Subsidies!" Or when a county says hey we will skipp the property taxes for a bit if you bring in 100 jobs that will for sure expand the tax base...Same screaming.