Big Muddy

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Slappy

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If thats the case shouldnt the fishery have crashed already. How long have these tournaments been going on?

The issue is not the entire fishery crashing. It is about improving opportunities to catch big fish. It's great now. It could be even better if more big fish were released rather than killed for a leaderboard when they would have been released otherwise. The discussion is not about keeping fish to eat or put on the wall; it is about a considerable number of very large fish that take a long time to reach that size being killed only because it's tournament day.

How many 24"+ fish have been killed on tournament day in the decades this tournament has been running? How many more 30"+ fish would still be out there if all those tournament fish were released?

The Missouri/Oahe system and Erie are very different waters.

And you are correct. I strongly dislike tourneys, and this is only one of the many reasons.
 

Twitch

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The issue is not the entire fishery crashing. It is about improving opportunities to catch big fish. It's great now. It could be even better if more big fish were released rather than killed for a leaderboard when they would have been released otherwise. The discussion is not about keeping fish to eat or put on the wall; it is about a considerable number of very large fish that take a long time to reach that size being killed only because it's tournament day.

How many 24"+ fish have been killed on tournament day in the decades this tournament has been running? How many more 30"+ fish would still be out there if all those tournament fish were released?

The Missouri/Oahe system and Erie are very different waters.

And you are correct. I strongly dislike tourneys, and this is only one of the many reasons.

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we’d all have a Merry Christmas. You’re assuming an awful lot and blaming your bad luck of not catching big fish on what you deem as a problem. We have one of the greatest walleye fisheries in the nation in our little corner of it so I don’t see a reason to make drastic changes. In your argument lies what I consider to be one of the biggest problems with our nation today. Sorry you don’t catch a 30 incher every time you wet a line but that should make that experience mean that much more when you accomplish it. What the hell fun would it be and how much of a good feeling would you have if every trip you caught a couple 30 inch pigs. Not a lot of accomplishment in it if everyone is doing it. Enjoy the resources we have because in a blink no matter what the hell us insignificant humans do the big guy upstairs can change things and you’d be longing for the ol’ days, no matter how many slot limits you start or tourneys you end.
 

Kurtr

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The issue is not the entire fishery crashing. It is about improving opportunities to catch big fish. It's great now. It could be even better if more big fish were released rather than killed for a leaderboard when they would have been released otherwise. The discussion is not about keeping fish to eat or put on the wall; it is about a considerable number of very large fish that take a long time to reach that size being killed only because it's tournament day.

How many 24"+ fish have been killed on tournament day in the decades this tournament has been running? How many more 30"+ fish would still be out there if all those tournament fish were released?

The Missouri/Oahe system and Erie are very different waters.

And you are correct. I strongly dislike tourneys, and this is only one of the many reasons.

Those 30 inch fish would have starved and died when the water was low. Unless you can control the COE and keep water levels and control the boom and bust of bait fish your living in a pipe dream. If you want big fish this is the time to be fishing if it stays dry and the lake starts going down like the early 2000 its not going to matter how many big fish are released when they have nothing to eat. What if they didnt allow fishing during the spring at all like minnesota ? The what if game is fun
 

sl1000794

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I remember back in the '50s and '60s the season ended sometime in March I think and didn't open until early May to keep fishermen from catching spawners.

Actually year round fishing has been allowed since 1993.
 
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DirtyMike

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The issue is not the entire fishery crashing. It is about improving opportunities to catch big fish. It's great now. It could be even better if more big fish were released rather than killed for a leaderboard when they would have been released otherwise. The discussion is not about keeping fish to eat or put on the wall; it is about a considerable number of very large fish that take a long time to reach that size being killed only because it's tournament day.

How many 24"+ fish have been killed on tournament day in the decades this tournament has been running? How many more 30"+ fish would still be out there if all those tournament fish were released?

The Missouri/Oahe system and Erie are very different waters.

And you are correct. I strongly dislike tourneys, and this is only one of the many reasons.

With that, shouldn't you now like this development of the tournament world? If we're looking at causation; with tournaments being around yet state records continually topple, do tournaments help the health of the fishery? Misplaced fear, finger pointing, fear mongering seem all too normal in today's society. Govern yourself and live a better life.

----
Along those same lines, is catching big fish what you deem as a make or break situation when on the missouri river? Or is that what everyone thinks?
 
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Wags2.0

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The issue is not the entire fishery crashing. It is about improving opportunities to catch big fish. It's great now. It could be even better if more big fish were released rather than killed for a leaderboard when they would have been released otherwise. The discussion is not about keeping fish to eat or put on the wall; it is about a considerable number of very large fish that take a long time to reach that size being killed only because it's tournament day.

How many 24"+ fish have been killed on tournament day in the decades this tournament has been running? How many more 30"+ fish would still be out there if all those tournament fish were released?

The Missouri/Oahe system and Erie are very different waters.

And you are correct. I strongly dislike tourneys, and this is only one of the many reasons.

to pile on what others have stated against your argument i suggest you study up on biodiversity and carry capacity. Lots of large fish doesnt always(rarely?) equal healthy fish populations - at least long term
 

Slappy

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So why the change to live release for Big Muddy if it makes absolutely no difference as a number of people suggest? Did the tournament directors decide it was the right thing to do? Did NDGF biologists determine it will be a requirement for the permit?

Interested to know if anyone has facts on the decision to change.
 

Twitch

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So why the change to live release for Big Muddy if it makes absolutely no difference as a number of people suggest? Did the tournament directors decide it was the right thing to do? Did NDGF biologists determine it will be a requirement for the permit?

Interested to know if anyone has facts on the decision to change.

I have no for sure facts but my best educated guess in 2021 with the world being such as it is.....optics
 


Captain Ahab

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So why the change to live release for Big Muddy if it makes absolutely no difference as a number of people suggest? Did the tournament directors decide it was the right thing to do? Did NDGF biologists determine it will be a requirement for the permit?

Interested to know if anyone has facts on the decision to change.


Some tourney's went to this format using Covid 19 as an excuse. Instead of getting together for the weigh in, you turn in your sheet and camera chip then boogie. Get results on-line later.
 

DirtyMike

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So why the change to live release for Big Muddy if it makes absolutely no difference as a number of people suggest? Did the tournament directors decide it was the right thing to do? Did NDGF biologists determine it will be a requirement for the permit?

Interested to know if anyone has facts on the decision to change.

To cater to the nail that sticks out...most likely anyway. Game and Fish will allow live-release tournaments for specific times of the year. Devils Lake/Sakakawea in August doesn't work but the spring time sure does. To tiptoe that line, if hook mortality is as high as some think it is, then a live release is just a feel-good measure to calm the upset people. What boggles my mind is that some people think all 100 boats come back with a livewell full of pigs that will never be able to reproduce again when in reality, 20% of the field has a bigger basket than what most would consider "acceptable keeping size."
 

Achucker

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The issue is not the entire fishery crashing. It is about improving opportunities to catch big fish. It's great now. It could be even better if more big fish were released rather than killed for a leaderboard when they would have been released otherwise. The discussion is not about keeping fish to eat or put on the wall; it is about a considerable number of very large fish that take a long time to reach that size being killed only because it's tournament day.

How many 24"+ fish have been killed on tournament day in the decades this tournament has been running? How many more 30"+ fish would still be out there if all those tournament fish were released?

The Missouri/Oahe system and Erie are very different waters.

And you are correct. I strongly dislike tourneys, and this is only one of the many reasons.

How many "eater" size fish do you keep? These all have a potential to be a large fish. Watch your arguments cause it sounds like you are arguing for catch and release fishing only for all.

What would be interesting is if the g&f would tag these tournament fish and study when/if they do get caught against. This would settle the arguments of how much they affect the population. I would guess a large percentage would be caught and hung on the wall the next guy who catches it and if not would never be caught again.
 

zoops

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So why the change to live release for Big Muddy if it makes absolutely no difference as a number of people suggest? Did the tournament directors decide it was the right thing to do? Did NDGF biologists determine it will be a requirement for the permit?

Interested to know if anyone has facts on the decision to change.

Really doubt we'll see an uptick in the number of large fish the average Joe catches due to this change. Pretty sure water and forage are 99.99999% more important.
 

sweeney

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I heard they changed it to make the whiners happier, though they won’t say that in those terms.
 


Sluggo

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What boggles my mind is that some people think all 100 boats come back with a livewell full of pigs that will never be able to reproduce again when in reality, 20% of the field has a bigger basket than what most would consider "acceptable keeping size."

This. All will try for pigs but most will fail. And I bet the charity that was gifted the fillets is pretty bummed out.
 

Allen

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So why the change to live release for Big Muddy if it makes absolutely no difference as a number of people suggest? Did the tournament directors decide it was the right thing to do? Did NDGF biologists determine it will be a requirement for the permit?

Interested to know if anyone has facts on the decision to change.

G&F will tell you point blank their are decisions that are made based on the science of what the biologists see, and there are decisions/policy made based on public perception.
 

Timbuk-2

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I expect most of the released fish will die anyway after being dragged around in a live well all day and repeated handling. Just a feel good measure. I object to tournaments because I object to commercializing our resources for the benefit of big name sponsors and hot shot (in their minds) participants.
 


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