Chasing Rifle accuracy questions 0

[Achucker]

So I have been playing around with my 7mm rem mag to get it more accurate. Did all the usual things...handload, quality scope, timney trigger, and bell and carlson stock. Was able to get it down to just under 1 moa. But today something changed to bring my last group to under .5 moa. Only did two thing to it today that I think may be responsible.

I'll explain. I had developed a load in a factory stock at a little over an inch at 100 yards. Put it in the new stock today and groups came down to a little under an inch. Shot about 20 to 25 rounds.

I installed the scope myself a couple years ago. I used the wheeler scope mounting kit to do it. Thought it was level with the action but never seemed right. Had a buddy look at it and found I had the action level not setting properly. So we repositioned the scope.. When loosening the screws to the scope he asked what I torqued to cause they were extremely tight. I don't remember for sure but thought it was to recommended amount with locktight. Anyway set up at 100 yards and re-sighted in. Then proceeded to shoot the group mentioned above. Was truly shocked.

Here are my questions...
1) Can the barreled action "seat" into the new stock after that many shots?
2) Does the torque on the scope ring bolts affect the accuracy of a rifle?
Or
3) Did I just get lucky?

 

[Allen]

#2 and #3

Torqueing the mounting screws is one thing, but keeping them there is another. So locktite is a valuable tool in helping to make sure they stay where you left them. I've been the victim of scope mounting screws coming loose, and it's always the last damn thing I think of when it comes to shit going awry.

3. It's hard to say, but when you are sending lead down range, there are certainly good days and bad days. We've all been there. So, yes...at the differences you've noticed there is a certain amount of luck/consistency/WTF that comes into play. I'd have to look at your dope book (Marines, we use a notebook to zero in a rifle. Nothing is out of the realm of reality when it comes to shooting, did you have an extra cup of coffee, not sleep well, your ex send you a shitty text, etc, etc.). They all can be a player in how one shoots.

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Note, Mark Sandness at Capital City Sporting Clays will stress the above if he's talking about competitive shooting. And that man knows how to send lead down range.

 

[Kurtr]

I agree with Allen a combo of things. How many shot groups? 3 you can get lucky 5 and 10 and you start finding trends.

 

[Achucker]

I agree with Allen a combo of things. How many shot groups? 3 you can get lucky 5 and 10 and you start finding trends.

I try to always shoot a 5 shot group. Then will let barrel cool before changing anything.

 

[Jiffy]

You broke a major rule.

You never change more than one thing at a time.

Yes, all three of those things are possible.

I'd just shoot it again and if you get the same results who cares. lol

 

[guywhofishes]

Thanks for the quality OP.

 

[jdinny]

to be 100% honest under 1 MOA at 100 yards to under .5MOA at 100 yards really isnt to significant.
that 100% could be all shooter error/ability setting up rifle slightly different, canting rifle one way or another.
you want to see trends in a rifle, run it to 400+ and you will see trends.
to be 100% honest 100 yards tells you very very little in a rifle abilities

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do you have access to a chrono? if not go to 300 yards or so and if your groups are spread vertically (up/down) you powder charge is likely inconsistent hence the vertical spread. if your vertical spread is good but scattered horizontally its very likely something your doing.

 

[guywhofishes]

parallax?

 

[Achucker]

You broke a major rule.

You never change more than one thing at a time.

Yes, all three of those things are possible.

I'd just shoot it again and if you get the same results who cares. lol

I didn't change two things at once. I shot in the new stock what I thought was a reasonable amount of shots before changing something else

 

[Jiffy]

So I have been playing around with my 7mm rem mag to get it more accurate. ....... Only did two thing to it today that I think may be responsible.

I may have reading comprehension issues this morning but I don't think so.

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I guess I wouldn't consider 25 rounds a good control group, but that's just me.

 

[SDMF]

I shoot @ 100yds just enough to get close to "on-target" @ 200yds, that's where my "work" starts.

If the stock is a B&C Medalist w/AL bedding block, I'd skim bed it w/JB weld or whatever bedding compound you prefer. I can feel the vibration between AL and steel in both HS and B&C AL block stocks and I don't like it thus the skim bed.

Regarding question #2, I assuming you mean the screws that hold the tops of the rings onto the bottom half, or in the case of vertical split, the screws that hold the 2 halves together. And, the answer is, Yes, absolutely they CAN be too tight. I was guilty of this for a very long time. 15-20 in/lb on the ring caps is plenty to keep things in place assuming you don't have the Hubble telescope mounted upon an ultralight hard-kicker.

If you over-tighten your rings you could be compressing the main-tube which in turn could be causing the erector-tube inside the scope to be mashed against the bias springs rather than floating upon them. When the erector tube isn't floating on it's support springs you run the risk of imparting a bunch of vibration to the scope. The vibration is inconsistent which manifests as poor accuracy. Another scope/vibration related issue can show up if your very front scope-base screw is too long and contacts the bbl tenon. The screw feels tight, but it's not holding the base down tight, it's just stopped on the bbl threads. It doesn't happen often, but, it can be a bugger to find/figure out. Easiest way is to pull the front base screw, then look @ the bbl threads in the bottom of the hole. If they're mashed, the screw is too long. You can also sharpie the front base screw, run it in to "tight" then back it out again and see if there's a mark on the screw where it touched the threads. If it's too long use a cut-off wheel or a grinder and shorten just a bit.

Another symptom of over-tightened scope rings is a scope that won't track properly. You adjust and it won't move, then you adjust again and it finally moves, but, it moves too far and you have to keep making adjustments and "hunt" for your proper zero.

 

[Jiffy]

Just curious what optics you have on it Achucker?

 

[Achucker]

Just curious what optics you have on it Achucker?

Leupold vx3 4.5-14x50

 

[Huntin1]

Just curious, are you shooting off a bench with, sandbags front and rear, or bipod with or without rear bag?

I do most of my shooting prone with a bipod and rear bag.

And is this a hunting rifle with a standard barrel? If so, under 1 MOA isn't all that bad. IMHO

 

[Achucker]

Just curious, are you shooting off a bench with, sandbags front and rear, or bipod with or without rear bag?

I do most of my shooting prone with a bipod and rear bag.

And is this a hunting rifle with a standard barrel? If so, under 1 MOA isn't all that bad. IMHO

Shooting with a front and rear bag on bench. I am not displeased with the groups around 1 moa. Just thought it was strange to see a sudden change to under .5. I will be getting it out again this week to shoot at 200 to see how it does at longer range.

 

[Jiffy]

Just curious, are you shooting off a bench with, sandbags front and rear, or bipod with or without rear bag?

I do most of my shooting prone with a bipod and rear bag.

And is this a hunting rifle with a standard barrel? If so, under 1 MOA isn't all that bad. IMHO

Agreed. A true 1 MOA hunting rifle is plenty good.

Nice bike BTW Rob!! I figured you’d ride a Honda! ��

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Hahahaha

 

[PrairieGhost]

SDFM I have had the same experience with screws on the mount to long when working on rifles for other people. More often I have had guys come to me with a problem rifle and the front recoil lug screw was to long. One guy couldn't get his bolt to open because he had hid screw contacting the bolt so hard it was locked.

 

[Achucker]

Well I took it out tonight and shot at two hundred. I either am getting better at shooting or the barrel likes to be hot. This is an 11 shot group.

Any analysis from this?

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First 4 are in the circle

 

[Mr. Stevenson]

^^^^That's pretty damn impressive IMO. I wouldn't dream of shooting a bbl that hot unless in a firefight. I may be a bit Sheldon Cooper. IMO a true group is obtained from an ambient temp tube. I get a little "naggy" feeling if I'm out at freezing or below with a rifle zeroed at 50 above. I'm not a queer.

 

[PrairieGhost]

I wouldn't dream of shooting a bbl that hot unless in a firefight

I should never watch Jerry Miculek. I have burned through 2000 rounds this winter trying to put 20 rounds on a six inch steel target in 10 seconds. I hate using so much ammo, but a guy gets ticked when he can't so it. A person should be able to do 25% of what Miculek does, but I give up until someone makes a better trigger for the Springfield XDM Elite tactical. Should have bought the Sig.