Hay Creek Dispute

guywhofishes

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Fascinating issue. My brothers and I had some good times working construction in the Hay Creek drainage back in the 70s.

Bismarck-area landowners protest dumping of possibly 'contaminated' groundwater


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BISMARCK — A drain tile system intended to bring flood relief to homeowners' basements in the Hay Creek Pines subdivision, located 6 miles northeast of Bismarck, has downstream landowners protesting the diversion of possibly contaminated groundwater to their property.


Alton Nitschke and his wife, Arlene, who are concerned about the quality and quantity of water that will be discharged onto their land, are appealing a permit that the Burleigh County Water Resource District granted to itself for a drainage project meant to remove excessive groundwater from the subdivision.
The Nitschkes, who own about 40 acres of land and have lived south of Hay Creek Pines for 24 years, say the groundwater has been polluted by coliform and other contaminants. The presence of coliform bacteria is an indicator of water contamination by feces and sewage, according to the National Ground Water Association.
"You're going to ruin our land, but nobody cares," Arlene Nitschke said, in tears, at last week's BCWRD meeting.
"We know there are some toxic bacteria in this water. You can tell just by looking at it ... it doesn't look right. At this point, I don't think it's something that should be put above ground," said Alton Nitschke, who expressed concern his land will turn to alkali due to the contaminated groundwater.
Alkali soils have high levels of salt, injuring plants by disrupting the uptake of water into the roots and interfering with the uptake of competitive nutrients, according to the North Dakota State University Extension Service. Also, high levels of sodium restrict the soil's capacity to hold water. Ultimately, the soil turns white.
"We have some of the best soil in Burleigh County, I'm told, and this would destroy that," Alton Nitschke said.
The BCWRD tested water samples from four wells and one sump pump, but the Nitschkes allege the tests did not include all essential attributes. The five basic items to be tested, per the U.S. Department of Agriculture, are nitrates, sulfates, phosphates, E. coli and coliform. The latter two were not tested by the county.
The sampling was done by Braun Intertec in conjunction with Houston Engineering, with testing done by Pace Analytical Laboratories in Billings, Mont.
One of the tested wells had a sulfate reading of 5,680. A safe level for consumption by livestock is from 500 to 1,000, according to the NDSU Extension Service.
The Nitschkes no longer own livestock, but say they're concerned that groundwater that could kill sheep, cows and horses will be discharged onto their land. For irrigation and outside watering purposes, the couple uses water from a well. They pay for rural water for personal consumption.

"Based on the projected quantity of discharges, the sulfate levels are not a concern," said Michael Gunsch, project manager of Houston Engineering. "There are flows on Hay Creek in other locations, without such projects, that have elevated sulfate levels. Sulfates are naturally occurring in the soils."
In addition, three of the five samples registered at a total dissolved solids level of 9,000 or more. A level of 3,000 is considered "satisfactory" for most livestock, according to the NDSU Extension Service.
Using one of the same test wells, the Nitschkes tested for coliform and E. coli in the groundwater, sending their sample to Minnesota Valley Testing Laboratories Inc. Results show coliform was present, though E. coli was not found.
"As for coliform and E. coli, they exist naturally within the creek," Gunsch said.
The Nitschkes allege that the BCWRD refused to test murky groundwater collected from one of the test wells.
"They did not test anything that was going to be bad rapport for them," Arlene Nitschke said.
Another concern for the Nitschkes is the quantity of water that will be "dumped" on their property.
"It's going to be ponding in two locations on our land, year round," Alton Nitschke said. "We have a huge number of trees we are concerned about if this causes water tables to rise near our house."
The Hay Creek Pines Groundwater Removal Project is intended to lower groundwater levels in the subdivision by providing an avenue for the water to more readily leave.
The project's aim is to improve the stability of the road bed in and around Hay Creek Pines, reduce sump pump operations in homes, protect structures and reduce the drowning of trees.
"When the subdivision was being developed, the developer told homeowners, 'Don't put in a basement,'" Arlene Nitschke said. "They did anyway, and now they're out there watering their lawns and wondering why there's water in their basements."
As far as the project status is concerned, BCWRD is proceeding to acquire the necessary easements at this time. The project was approved May 2, with 97 percent of the Hay Creek Pines voters favoring it. An assessment district has been established and $555,100 worth of specials will be spread out evenly among the 35 landowners.
"We have looked long and hard at what the Century Code says about drain tile permitting — what we can and can't do. We are very limited," said BCWRD Board Chairman Greg Larson. "They made it very clear that, if there is someone downstream who is being harmed by this project, their only recourse is the courts and that's the way the Century Code is written.
"Our hands are tied," he said. "I'm very sorry this has happened the way it has."
The Nitschkes said they are unsure, at this point, whether or not they will take legal action.

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http://www.wday.com/news/4345756-bi...est-dumping-possibly-contaminated-groundwater
 


Duckslayer100

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"Alton Nitschke and his wife, Arlene, who are concerned about the quality and quantity of water that will be discharged onto their land, are appealing a permit that the Burleigh County Water Resource District granted to itself for a drainage project meant to remove excessive groundwater from the subdivision."

I'm sorry...but that just struck me funny. Probably legal as all getout, but c'mon...

 

SDMF

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We used to tie fishing lines w/bare hooks to the train bridge on Hay Creek just S of '94. At the beginning of summer we'd ride our bikes to K-mart and buy a biggish spool of cheap curly-Q blue-clear mono that needed about 3/4oz to straighten out. We'd bait them with backyard worms and catch bullheads. I'd take the dog along because there were a few pheasants around and it'd keep him tuned up in the off-season. In the winter, we used to sled down the big hill to the west of the train bridge. We should've all been torn to shreds by the barbed-wire fence we'd sled near but I don't think we ever got a scratch, dumb luck I guess. It was a horse-pasture on the edge of town in the mid-80's when we spent a lot of time there. Now it's backyards and walking paths. No more 1/2mi long sledding run but there's still a few pheasants (or was 10yrs ago when my dad would walk his dog there) and I suspect there's still bullheads to be caught in the creek.

Apologies, the mere mention of Hay Creek had me in nostalgia mode for a few minutes. I have 0 to say or think about the OP's issue.
 
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guywhofishes

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ha ha ha - wow

I was circled by a pack of mean dogs on that same bridge in maybe 76 or so. The one and only time I was spooked real bad by dogs.

As they approached they looked strangely determined that they were headed directly to me - so I got leery and filled my pockets up with railroad ballast rock of good chucking size and found a stick.

They spent easily 5 minutes slowly circling, low growling, and sizing me up while I got more and more creeped out. The leader eventually turned and walked slowly away without glancing back and the rest followed. Once I felt it was safe I headed back to our shop to change my pants.

I never wanted my .22 rifle in my hands worse than those 5 minutes.
 

martinslanding

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ha ha ha - wow

I was circled by a pack of mean dogs on that same bridge in maybe 76 or so. The one and only time I was spooked real bad by dogs.

As they approached they looked strangely determined that they were headed directly to me - so I got leery and filled my pockets up with railroad ballast rock of good chucking size and found a stick.

They spent easily 5 minutes slowly circling, low growling, and sizing me up while I got more and more creeped out. The leader eventually turned and walked slowly away without glancing back and the rest followed. Once I felt it was safe I headed back to our shop to change my pants.

I never wanted my .22 rifle in my hands worse than those 5 minutes.


They must have been super scary to spook a 30 year old like that …
 


Vollmers

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There were some big snapping turtles in there as well!
We used to tie fishing lines w/bare hooks to the train bridge on Hay Creek just S of '94. At the beginning of summer we'd ride our bikes to K-mart and buy a biggish spool of cheap curly-Q blue-clear mono that needed about 3/4oz to straighten out. We'd bait them with backyard worms and catch bullheads. I'd take the dog along because there were a few pheasants around and it'd keep him tuned up in the off-season. In the winter, we used to sled down the big hill to the west of the train bridge. We should've all been torn to shreds by the barbed-wire fence we'd sled near but I don't think we ever got a scratch, dumb luck I guess. It was a horse-pasture on the edge of town in the mid-80's when we spent a lot of time there. Now it's backyards and walking paths. No more 1/2mi long sledding run but there's still a few pheasants (or was 10yrs ago when my dad would walk his dog there) and I suspect there's still bullheads to be caught in the creek.

Apologies, the mere mention of Hay Creek had me in nostalgia mode for a few minutes. I have 0 to say or think about the OP's issue.
 

Retired Educator

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Have never been to Hay Creek but do know that I would not want water from above my residence flowing in my direction. By water i mean water that would not have flowed without the development. In some of the developments I have driven through it's fairly common to see alkaline areas that are a result of excess water flowing through the area. Natural drainage is typically not to blame, man-made drainage will frequently cause a problem downstream.
 


pointer

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Ha beat you all to it, that little farm that had access to said bridge was our neighbor Rays land, We were there in the late sixties early seventies. Back then the field below the the big blue mushroom was a wheat field that we had our forts dig in and had many BBB gunwars there with our neighboring blocks
 

Allen

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dirt.jpg
Without setting foot on the ground, I think this is the "...some of the best soil in Burleigh County" referenced in the article.
I wonder what that white stuff is in the pic?

Note, I would suggest that not only is this area pre-disposed to shallow groundwater issues, but there is another landowner NW of this that owns a stock dam. That stock dam creates artificial recharge to the groundwater and has a hand in the overall problem.

Note 2. I have no horse in this, but hydrologically...this isn't a tough nut to crack.

A half million dollar investment. I about spit my Mountain Dew all over the keyboard!

- - - Updated - - -

Note 3. I too would be pissed if someone were to want to drain water into an ephemeral streambed that crosses my property. Especially one with a fair number of septic systems draining into it.

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Have never been to Hay Creek but do know that I would not want water from above my residence flowing in my direction. By water i mean water that would not have flowed without the development. In some of the developments I have driven through it's fairly common to see alkaline areas that are a result of excess water flowing through the area. Natural drainage is typically not to blame, man-made drainage will frequently cause a problem downstream.

Of course, other than water that comes in via plumbed rural water, the upstream folks aren't "adding" any water to the problem. They are merely seeking a solution to existing water problems.

I, for one, can not believe we don't as a society hold the developers responsible when shit like this happens and it is not just reasonably foreseeable, but it is apparently obvious to anyone with even a minimal understanding of hydrology.

- - - Updated - - -

And final note on this one. The article also leaves out the two lots to the east of this fine soil and drainage that were sold off for development by the project detractors. The northern most one filled in the NE branch of the ephemeral stream in order to put its septic field in. Near as I can tell, the septic field of this lot is less than 50 ft from that branch of the stream. Between that and the horses upstream, how could one NOT expect to find fecal coliforms in nature.
 

Migrator Man

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Feel bad for these people because no one wasn't to be dumped on with dirty water. Sounds like the county pushed this through which is sad a government entity is now pretty much forcing them to sue. They need to treat that water before releasing it.
 

Allen

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Feel bad for these people because no one wasn't to be dumped on with dirty water. Sounds like the county pushed this through which is sad a government entity is now pretty much forcing them to sue. They need to treat that water before releasing it.


I can't think of a single place in ND where a rancher has been required to "treat" the water running out of his pasture.
 

Retired Educator

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I can't think of a single place in ND where a rancher has been required to "treat" the water running out of his pasture.

Pastures I would agree, feedlots are a different story. And the amount of waste coming from a feedlot vs a pasture is similar to a housing development vs farmland.

Agree with Allen above in that developers need to be held accountable to surrounding neighbors. Just because there is an open field doesn't mean it NEEDS to be developed when it harms others around them.
 


PrairieGhost

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I wonder what that white stuff is in the pic?
I have noticed you are sharp on these things, and know very well what that white stuff is. Minerals depositing at a hydrological stagnation point. Caused by hydrologic upstream mischief. Now hydrologic mischief isn't fast enough to disperse what they don't want so they must revert to overland flow to crap on their neighbor. I have a friend farming east of me and unfortunately he is in a lower elevation. His neighbors over the last ten years have flooded 25% of his crop land. Don't even get me started on feed lots.
 

Allen

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I have noticed you are sharp on these things, and know very well what that white stuff is. Minerals depositing at a hydrological stagnation point. Caused by hydrologic upstream mischief. Now hydrologic mischief isn't fast enough to disperse what they don't want so they must revert to overland flow to crap on their neighbor. I have a friend farming east of me and unfortunately he is in a lower elevation. His neighbors over the last ten years have flooded 25% of his crop land. Don't even get me started on feed lots.


The only "hydrologic mischief" I've noted in the aerial imagery is the filling in of the channel that comes from the east. Other than that, this is just nature. Errr, natural.

I guess there's a stockdam also in the area. Maybe that's mischievous.
 

Retired Educator

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I referenced feedlots in a previous post and had no intention of blaming them. Some may cause a problem but the few I am familiar with and near a water drainage are frequently required to clean the lot of what is mostly cow manure as cows are the most prevalent in a feedlot. (Did see a horse feedlot in Canada once.) 100 years ago (I'm assuming as I wasn't here 100 years ago) problems such as these wasn't much of an issue. Eventually someone discovered that you can drain that slough for more cropland, you can install drain tile around your house to prevent water in your basement, you can install drain tile in your entire field to take care or excess moisture. It all eventually can cause a problem for someone else.

As I once heard "If it's a lake, man will try to drain it, if it's a free-flowing river, man will dam it." It all goes back to being a good neighbor.
 


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