Limit lakes for guides?

Tikka280ai

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ND has a 20 fish limit on blue gills EXCEPT on the best blue gill lake in the state ... Metigoshe, where the limit is 10. Go figure. If you are wondering why I say Metigoshe is the best blue gill lake it is because it is the only ND lake that has a blue gill tournament - usually in March. A limit of 'gills can be caught any and every day of the week (and twice on Sunday) if no wardens are patrolling!
I believe the whole state is bow at a 10/per daily limit on bluegills. I know for awhile metagoshi was the only one.

I don't care what anyone else thinks. I absolutely love bluegill fishing in the winter and for me a trip to metagoshi when the gills are biting is an easy morning expedition then back home to feed cows by early afternoon
 
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lunkerslayer

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If I remember correctly, the game and fish in ND is entirely funded by federal money and licenses. NOT general fund tax dollars. The federal funds are from excise taxes on guess what? Hunting and fishing equipment. So many of your arguments don’t apply. After all, those lakes are being stocked and ramps being built by not only you, but every guide and person a guide takes fishing. I could be wrong but this is what G&F people always tell us. Also, guides do pay income and other taxes like every other business.
If you say they are like every other business then why don't the have to provide the information of their business on their equipment. As far as I know everyone else who has a business has to be mark which equipment is being used for tax legal purposes. Are they set up under as LLC as far as what I have read under the north dakota proclamation it doesn't state anywhere as a fishing outfitter/guide they have to do anything, it reads very vague on the fishing guide part.
 

Davey Crockett

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If you say they are like every other business then why don't the have to provide the information of their business on their equipment. As far as I know everyone else who has a business has to be mark which equipment is being used for tax legal purposes. Are they set up under as LLC as far as what I have read under the north dakota proclamation it doesn't state anywhere as a fishing outfitter/guide they have to do anything, it reads very vague on the fishing guide part.

That must be a new law or else one that's not enforced. Iv'e never heard of that
 

lunkerslayer

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Can you name a licensed business that deals with good and services in North dakota that doesn't? I not claiming I'm right here and for a matter of a fact their maybe some that are exceptions to the rule. Maybe some can help us out
 
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FightingSioux

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Guides out west guide all over public land for elk, mule deer etc. so extremely similar comparison there
The good guides out west don’t go on public land unless it’s landlocked within the private land they lease. I would never pay a guide to take me on public ground
 


FightingSioux

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In WY you don’t need a guide license to guide for fishing or even waterfowl hunting. Consider yourselves lucky!

I get people hate when their favorite lake gets fished out because it happened to me before too. Of these lakes don’t get harvested the fish may become stunted or may even be winter killed. We might as well enjoy the resource while we can. If the game and fish can keep the lakes stocked on a cycle so that there is always a lake to fish then I have no problem with guides. If the guides overfish all the lake to where there are no lakes left then there should be more limits on guides. Where I fished got fished out by locals and not guides…..
 

shorthairsrus

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were lucky to have a game and fish that stocks fingerlings ------ most states do not. In fact most states are like MN they spend money on shit that looks like its good for nature however its all about padding someones pocketbook.

I am not to worried about a guide. The weather here alone keeps them in check.
 

wjschmaltz

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There's a couple decent points but hook and line vs commercial fishing methods and fish vs mammal management are pretty poor comparisons. I don't think anyone here has pushed for less regulation, they've just pointed out they don't believe more regulation on guides is the solution. I'm not a big fan of guides but if the goal is to reduce harvest I think it should be reduced limits across the board. Even a reduced limit would have more effect on guides/nonresidents as there is no freezer limit for residents.
That’s why I made sure to include that regulation should be at scale. Because it’s not all apples to apples. Which is kind of what the original question is about. I don’t think everyone should bear the burden if a commercial group over exerts a resource. Would you still think this way if guide boats did a 5x and in 10 years and they had to drop the limit of walleyes for everyone to 2 fish because of it? Even just limiting guided fishermen to one over 24” per day would be a massive step in the right direct and have little effect on their business.

There wouldn’t be a 50lb halibut within 50 miles of shore from Anchorage to Ketchikan if there wasn’t stringent restrictions on the commercial sport fishing fleet separate from people in personal craft. Regulations include guided fishermen have a one over/one under size limit, a very low season limit, and it’s closed to commercial use twice a week. None of those regulations apply to people in a person craft. Resident or not. While guided rules apply to both resident and non resident fishermen.The guides embrace the rules because they know the fishery wouldn’t last if that massive fleet was given a free for all. And judging by how many new operations are popping up each year with $250,000 boats and a winter home in Hawaii, they’re doing just fine.

Touching one a couple other points people made:

I remember very well numerous unnamed perch lakes getting blown up and fished out in the late 90s and early 2000s. Not a guide to be seen and no social media. And still within weeks the place was covered in vehicles from Wisconsin and Minnesota.

For a lake to be managed by the state it just needs public access. That is a simple as having a road/section line running into the lake or the water to be within the public ROW. So just a lake next to a gravel road has public access and can be managed as such. The G&F does summer and winter water quality monitoring at almost every public water body that has historically held fish (it was my job ~15 years ago). They are not going to stock a lake that dies every year. With the cyclical drough conditions over the last few years and the massive nitrogen run off associated with our current agriculture practices, I doubt many of these small lakes have maintained a steady enough dissolved oxygen level year over year to hold fish recently. Big snow years like it sounds like is happening this year sure don’t help either.
 

lunkerslayer

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That’s why I made sure to include that regulation should be at scale. Because it’s not all apples to apples. Which is kind of what the original question is about. I don’t think everyone should bear the burden if a commercial group over exerts a resource. Would you still think this way if guide boats did a 5x and in 10 years and they had to drop the limit of walleyes for everyone to 2 fish because of it? Even just limiting guided fishermen to one over 24” per day would be a massive step in the right direct and have little effect on their business.

There wouldn’t be a 50lb halibut within 50 miles of shore from Anchorage to Ketchikan if there wasn’t stringent restrictions on the commercial sport fishing fleet separate from people in personal craft. Regulations include guided fishermen have a one over/one under size limit, a very low season limit, and it’s closed to commercial use twice a week. None of those regulations apply to people in a person craft. Resident or not. While guided rules apply to both resident and non resident fishermen.The guides embrace the rules because they know the fishery wouldn’t last if that massive fleet was given a free for all. And judging by how many new operations are popping up each year with $250,000 boats and a winter home in Hawaii, they’re doing just fine.

Touching one a couple other points people made:

I remember very well numerous unnamed perch lakes getting blown up and fished out in the late 90s and early 2000s. Not a guide to be seen and no social media. And still within weeks the place was covered in vehicles from Wisconsin and Minnesota.

For a lake to be managed by the state it just needs public access. That is a simple as having a road/section line running into the lake or the water to be within the public ROW. So just a lake next to a gravel road has public access and can be managed as such. The G&F does summer and winter water quality monitoring at almost every public water body that has historically held fish (it was my job ~15 years ago). They are not going to stock a lake that dies every year. With the cyclical drough conditions over the last few years and the massive nitrogen run off associated with our current agriculture practices, I doubt many of these small lakes have maintained a steady enough dissolved oxygen level year over year to hold fish recently. Big snow years like it sounds like is happening this year sure don’t help either.
That is interested bud, how does the gnf perform a gill net survey if their is no boat launch? Also is the information on oxygen levels for nd lakes open to the public? And if so what are the requirements to get that information.
Here is an article provided by the gnf on new lakes
https://gf.nd.gov/magazine/2017/jul/new-lakes
 

Freedom

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That’s why I made sure to include that regulation should be at scale. Because it’s not all apples to apples. Which is kind of what the original question is about. I don’t think everyone should bear the burden if a commercial group over exerts a resource. Would you still think this way if guide boats did a 5x and in 10 years and they had to drop the limit of walleyes for everyone to 2 fish because of it? Even just limiting guided fishermen to one over 24” per day would be a massive step in the right direct and have little effect on their business.

There wouldn’t be a 50lb halibut within 50 miles of shore from Anchorage to Ketchikan if there wasn’t stringent restrictions on the commercial sport fishing fleet separate from people in personal craft. Regulations include guided fishermen have a one over/one under size limit, a very low season limit, and it’s closed to commercial use twice a week. None of those regulations apply to people in a person craft. Resident or not. While guided rules apply to both resident and non resident fishermen.The guides embrace the rules because they know the fishery wouldn’t last if that massive fleet was given a free for all. And judging by how many new operations are popping up each year with $250,000 boats and a winter home in Hawaii, they’re doing just fine.

Touching one a couple other points people made:

I remember very well numerous unnamed perch lakes getting blown up and fished out in the late 90s and early 2000s. Not a guide to be seen and no social media. And still within weeks the place was covered in vehicles from Wisconsin and Minnesota.

For a lake to be managed by the state it just needs public access. That is a simple as having a road/section line running into the lake or the water to be within the public ROW. So just a lake next to a gravel road has public access and can be managed as such. The G&F does summer and winter water quality monitoring at almost every public water body that has historically held fish (it was my job ~15 years ago). They are not going to stock a lake that dies every year. With the cyclical drough conditions over the last few years and the massive nitrogen run off associated with our current agriculture practices, I doubt many of these small lakes have maintained a steady enough dissolved oxygen level year over year to hold fish recently. Big snow years like it sounds like is happening this year sure don’t help either.
Too much apples and oranges and hypotheticals not really based on reality. Like I get your point but the Alaska perspective washes out any sense.
 


1lessdog

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Back in 1998 we were fishing Flood lake over by Kulm. We were there on a Sat and Sun and maybe 20 trucks on the lake. The Perch were really biting catching lots of 12 inch to 14 inch . One of the best Perch bites I have ever been on. The next weekend we went back. There were a few hundred pickups on the ice. I talked to a few guys and they said it was posted on the internet. After a few weeks you caught very few 12 to 14 inch Perch.

I want to say the limit was 50 per day if I remember right
 

pointer

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Must have been about the same time my boys and I were fishing a lake NE of Napoleon locals called it stink lake in February on a nice warm day we had been doing well on that lake for a month, this day it was packed were there an hour or so when a one ton four door pickup with a rack that held 3 portables on it with TEXAS plates rolled by at about 30 yards or so at about 40 mph could feel the the roll on the ice and water shot out of the holes about a foot, the oldest said I'm walking home and ran to the shore, we packed up right away and left just pure crazy kinda ruined ice fishing for all of us
 

lunkerslayer

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Back in 1998 we were fishing Flood lake over by Kulm. We were there on a Sat and Sun and maybe 20 trucks on the lake. The Perch were really biting catching lots of 12 inch to 14 inch . One of the best Perch bites I have ever been on. The next weekend we went back. There were a few hundred pickups on the ice. I talked to a few guys and they said it was posted on the internet. After a few weeks you caught very few 12 to 14 inch Perch.

I want to say the limit was 50 per day if I remember right
There was a lot of lakes in the 90s that held monster toads, seemed when we hit that wet cycle in the mid 90s the fish population exploded in north dakota. It's epic none the less and at that time no one had a fish locator to speak of or a fish trap/ice castle pulled by a 4x4 or atv/snowmobile. Those items really changed the game when it came to catching fish, when more people invested in these luxuries is when the gnf needed to put a limit on perch and bass. Now we have the next big game changer the live sonar of the big three and the mobilization of the snobear. But by far the biggest tool for anglers which believe it or not has always been the same and that is word of mouth. The use of the internet and social media just made it that much quicker to get the news where the next hot bite was. I don't know what the future holds so we will have to see becuase it's seems to me we have been swinging towards more of a drier cycle which will effect north dakota in the long run as to who will get restocked year by year. And that will be our next discussion on nda on who deserves to have their local lakes stocked and who doesn't. Lol stir the pot emoji 🤣
 

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